If that kick had gone over....

Snickers Man

Who would you blame if Stephen Jones had landed that last second penalty and prevented Ireland's Grand Slam? Paddy Wallace for infringing, or referee Wayne Barnes for being a pedant?

The case for the former is that he was sideways on to the ruck which made it look suspiciously like he had come in from the side. He was also stooped down very low and might possibly have been supporting himself in part by his hands which might have given the impression that he was "off his feet" in the strict sense that referees are currently being told to interpret that law.

The case for the latter is that whatever about his final stance, Wallace had clearly come in from behind the last foot. He was standing on both feet with his knees hardly bent at all (ie much more likely to be supporting himself on his feet and therefore able to play the ball); the referee had not called "hands off" or "ruck" so Wallace was entitled to attempt to pick the ball up while he was on his feet.

Personally, I'd blame Barnes. Even if he had been entitled under a particularly pedantic interpretation of the law to give it for hands in a ruck (which I dispute anyway) what a marginal decision upon which to decide a Grand Slam.

Bloody pedant!

bleg

can we not do this?

it went over, get over it

Amazotheamazing

Even if Paddy Wallace hadn't given away a penalty, Rory Best would have given one away by coming in at the side. Two complete clowns.

Barnes was right to call it.

copacetic

was a bit drunk at the time but felt Barnes did us very few favours with his decisions. At the end I was desperate for us to keep them out of our half as was sure once they got in there that Barnes would give them a penalty.

However he reffed like that all day so Wallace should have known just to not give him an excuse.

Snickers Man

bleg wrote: »

can we not do this?

it went over, get over it

It actually didn't and I'm just curious.

C'mon. It's a hypothetical question. And if we're going to bitch about a ref's decision, why not bitch about one that turned out to be inconsequential.

gosplan

copacetic wrote: »

was a bit drunk at the time but felt Barnes did us very few favours with his decisions.

I think we did ourselves very few favours. This was a match that we should have controlled better. Our excellent discipline throughout the tournament fell on its face when the team were confronted with the biggest test they have ever played.

All that said, the commitment around the field and general excellent play won us the slam but we so nearly bottled it through giving away penalties.

I think if there were less riding on the game, we would have won it by a wider margin. I also think that if the situation comes up again we'll perform a lot better.

Regardless of what happens now, this teams legacy is solid. They are and always will be heros to this nation.The upshot of that is that now they're free to play, no international game will ever matter as much as this one.

Stev_o

Who cares what if BOD's try wasn't given what if Henson had of gather Bowe's cross field kick and sprinted in for the try. It matters not one bit we won, end of story! Stop trying to dwell on the negative possibilities !

Stealdo

Just because the ref doesn't call 'ruck' doesn't mean that there isn't a ruck there. The refs call these things to help the players and keep the game flowing. The penalty was for hands in a ruck and it was a right decision and it was really stupid of Wallace.

Having said that, I said in the Steve Walsh thread that I thought Barnes was second to Alain Rolland as a ref but yesterday I thought there were some shocking inconsistancies, and I think he gifted Wales at least 9 points. There are two perfect examples of inconsistency - In the first half Ireland won a lineout off Welsh ball and O'Gara ran into the back of Fitzgerald, very harsh to call it intentional crossing, accidental offside would have been a fair call considering Fitz was just about in front of O'Gara when he received the ball, then in a dying minutes (just before Wallace's indescretion) in an almost identical scenario Jamie Roberts ran into the back of Ryan Jones and he calls play on, very nearly cost us the game. The other example was the penalty against O'Callaghan for mouthing at Philips when he knocked on. Minutes later Adam Jones did the same thing to Horan for giving away a penalty and he took no action, just told him to go away. Each of those penalties gave Wales 3 points. The penalty against Heaslip for taking out the lifter was ridiculous as well, considering the guy he 'took out' didn't even have his hands on the jumper when Heaslip made contact with him, let alone having him in the air. Closing the gap or whatever but he certainly didn't take out a lifter - another 3 points.

A pedantic referee is alright if their consistent - you just play to them, an inconsistent pedantic ref is a right pain in the backside.

thomond2006

Look, ffs we won the Grand Slam, end of story.

Could a mod lock the thread pls, it's stupid to dwell on something that never happened.

Sundy

To be honest i think its almost a good thing that paddy gave away the penalty where he did. Another few phases and it would have been a much easier kick for jones.

Paddy Wallace an unlikely hero?

kerry4sam

thomond2006 wrote: »

Look, ffs we won the Grand Slam, end of story.

Could a mod lock the thread pls, it's stupid to dwell on something that never happened.

+1 agree

thebigcheese22

thomond2006 wrote: »

Look, ffs we won the Grand Slam, end of story.

Could a mod lock the thread pls, it's stupid to dwell on something that never happened.

+ 1

We won the Grand Slam for the first time in 61 years - ****ing celebrate that fact!

Boston

Why do some people always feel the need to attribute blame. It's a major character flaw.

Chucky the tree

I'd blame the team for not turning the the terroritory and possession they have in the first half into points.