The future of motor mechanics.

Bog Butter

Just wondering what you think will be the future of motor mechanics. How will the trade change given the advances in the development of cars using alternative fuel i.e. electrical cars? I don't know very much about car engines; will they change much?

DanGerMus

malman wrote: »

Just wondering what you think will be the future of motor mechanics. How will the trade change given the advances in the development of cars using alternative fuel i.e. electronic cars? I don't know very much about car engines; will they change much?

That would be electrical cars only if they can sort out much lighter weight energy storage. I'm thinking hydrogen the best possibility for the future if they can sort out an efficient way to produce it.

EPM

You'll always need some common sense behind the computer. Its becoming a "computer says no" with situation faults in recent years but i've found in the past that faults have been found by some common sense from a mechanic even when the computer said no

Del2005

Once people are traveling on the roads there will always be a need for mechanics, what they do will change but there will always be a need to replace parts on cars. And since most people don't known how to open their bonnet they will pay people to do this.

Mechanics are constantly being retrained now as cars are getting more advanced but they will still break.

The main advantage of going to electric cars is that it'll be a whole lot cleaner of a job, no more working on dirty diesels.

L-M

I've always had this at the back of my mind, hearing things like "The engine only has one moving component" has me worried for the trade. But as said, there'll always be a need for the man behind the computer, but all the rest of the moving parts that come with a car.

derry

Its not good.Electric cars will require very little servicing as they dont use parts that wear away much .So brake pads and new wheels or new interior trim that sort of stuff.

Petrol and diesel engines will probably eventualy be a mono block made from ceramics .Ceramics wont need oil lubrication or water cooling.Probably be a case of when engine breaks just bin the engine and replace with a new one .Thats because the ceramic engines need to made as one peice block and being a single one peice unit you cant unbolt the head to get at the inyards to fix them .The fuel and spark plug tuning will be done through micro chip injection and done with a laptop connected .
Basically mechanics will be become like fast fit low paid workers who fit small frilly stuff like brake pads or exhast pipes etc.

The mechanics that will do work like trucks might be still doing the old fashioned stuff .The mechanics who check cars for the NCT might be making slightly better money than fast fit crews.

In Japan a new car like what we in ROI pay ~€15,000 would only cost ~€5,000.

They however in japan pay ~€5,000 a year to park the car .most japanese get new car every two years as why would you spend ~€5,000 a year for parking a 3 year old heap that is worth less than ~€1,000.Often these cars have low milage and are scrapped at 4 years old as uneconomic to spend a few bob on mechanic to replace the tyres .Some of those scrapped cars get shiipped out to poor countries and kept going in places like India with mechanics that get paid less than €1.00 and hour .

Some big luxery cars to be repaired are shipped out to India or Packistan repared theere and shipped back to europe as cheaper than paying the local european mechanic pay rates.Cost to ship cars to India and Packistan and back is ofen less than €1000 euro return .


Aircraft engine mechanics in the USA often earn less than €15 an hour.Now that SR technics has folded up the thhe aircraft mechanics who might have been earning more than ~€25 an hour if a new company comes back might be lucky to get work that pays between ~€10 and ~€15 an hour .


Ships mechanics often nowaday after working for low wages like ~€1 an hour while learning might be lucky to get from €5 to €10 euros an hour working for panamian or liberian ships.There are very few european ships left that pay better and half of them are flagged in panama or liberia where €10 euros an hour is a good wage rate


Seems to me mechanics look to become very low paid workers if things keep going the way they go now.

Modern mechanical stuff now mean they only take a unit and fit a new unit so its more a dumbed down fitter job and fitter jobs often have no clout to exert to demand more money as its easy to train up new recuits to do these simple jobs

Derry

DanGerMus

OP Did you mean mechanics the tradesmen or mechanics as in engineering and design. I think there are a couple a sticks caught by the wrong end here and don't know which one i have?

Captain Slow IRL

derry wrote: »

The mechanics that will do work like trucks might be still doing the old fashioned stuff .The mechanics who check cars for the NCT might be making slightly better money than fast fit crews.

Modern trucks are on par with modern diesel cars; they work with common-rail systems and require specialised diagnostic equipment to work on them. Mechanics aren't pigeon-holed into exclusively checking cars for nct, and don't compare a fast fit fitter to a qualified grease monkey - some might take offence!

derry wrote: »

Seems to me mechanics look to become very low paid workers if things keep going the way they go now.

Mechanics are very low paid workers.

derry wrote: »

Modern mechanical stuff now mean they only take a unit and fit a new unit so its more a dumbed down fitter job and fitter jobs often have no clout to exert to demand more money as its easy to train up new recuits to do these simple jobs

So the car'll just come into the workshop and tell you what's wrong with it?! It's very easy to do a lot of jobs, but to know and understand it needs to be replaced and why it needs to be replaced will rule out any 'ol codger doing the job.


As far as the thread is asking in the first place, who knows?! If you asked a lot of mechanics what they thought 10 years ago, they'd never have considered the amount of electronics that dictate the cars running.

Unless they worked for mercedez!

Mr.Diagnostic

The future, as regards how staff will handle technical advances looks bleak unless some major changes are made soon. The current technology has the majority in trouble never mind the whats to come. It’s a very sad state of affairs.

wheeliebin

There are fewer and fewer mechanics coming out of apprentiships that are actual mechanics as they would be trained as fitters and diagnostic technicians. I guess the old school mechanic will die out in years to come as cars are getting too many computer based applications for repair and service. There could be room for bicycle mechanics.

Run_to_da_hills

The backstreet mechanic will find it very difficult, he will no longer be able to take on more complex jobs without investing in expensive diagnostic equipment. He will be left with just menial tasks like replacing ball joints, shocks and very basic services.

The back street panel beater will also be hit thanks to strict EU regulations that will eventually only allow the handling of paints etc with those that hold permits. Already these new water based paints are almost impossible to use without the right conditions.

Darragh29

malman wrote: »

Just wondering what you think will be the future of motor mechanics. How will the trade change given the advances in the development of cars using alternative fuel i.e. electronic cars? I don't know very much about car engines; will they change much?

To be honest, the amount of electronics involved in managing the combustion cycle on a conventional car using a heat engine, is way in excess of what is required to run an electrically powered car using a battery. Alternative fuels I don't think will have much of an impact, at the end of the day, they do the same thing as a hydrocarbon fuel does.

One thing I think will happen though is that mechanics who haven't gotten to grips with electronics and developed a marketable skill in diagnostics, won't be around in ten years time.

Darragh29

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

The future, as regards how staff will handle technical advances looks bleak unless some major changes are made soon. The current technology has the majority in trouble never mind the whats to come. It’s a very sad state of affairs.

I agree with this. I think what needs to happen is the motor mechanic graduating now, should be graduating with an engineering degree with a strong grounding in electronics. To say that this is all that should happen is not what I'm saying, the whole trade of motor mechanic needs to be revisited... Unfortunately I think nothing is going to change as long as the SIMI are representing the industry.

Bog Butter

DanGerMus wrote: »

OP Did you mean mechanics the tradesmen or mechanics as in engineering and design. I think there are a couple a sticks caught by the wrong end here and don't know which one i have?

I'm very sorry for making you so confused with me mechanical sticks. Why don't you let it be whatever you want it to be. That reminds me, me mother bend her conrads going through water, i wonder will that be a thing of the past in the not to distant future?

Buzz Killington

Mechanics are a dying breed. Long live these new Technicians

Darragh29

Buzz Killington wrote: »

Mechanics are a dying breed. Long live these new Technicians

That's just another fashionable spin used by main dealers to try to "up market" their aftersales business.

Owen

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The backstreet mechanic will find it very difficult, he will no longer be able to take on more complex jobs without investing in expensive diagnostic equipment. He will be left with just menial tasks like replacing ball joints, shocks and very basic services.

I don't think Diagnostic equipment for Electric cars would be all that expensive to be honest, I mean, there's (In a simplified fashion), a motor, a battery, a charging circuit, and a variable resistor aka throttle. The other ancilliaries such as wipers, headlights he'll already be familiar with.

I've had a play with a full-electric vehicle, and it's pleasantly simple. And I think if a mechanical fault develops, it'll be quite easy to repair. I also read of a breakthrough in lithium ion batteries about a month ago, that can charge a L-ion batter to 90% capacity in about 10 seconds. If that filters through to production in a few years, it could be the catalyst that brings electric vehicles to the fore.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Already these new water based paints are almost impossible to use without the right conditions.

Not so. A very good friend of mine runs a smart paint repair system franchise, and can paint a bumper, outdoors with fast drying water based paints and lacquers in about an hour and a half.

DanGerMus

malman wrote: »

I'm very sorry for making you so confused with me mechanical sticks. Why don't you let it be whatever you want it to be. That reminds me, me mother bend her conrads going through water, i wonder will that be a thing of the past in the not to distant future?

No need for you to be sorry think i read it wrong. Once i saw alternative fuel and electric i assumed this was a beyond 2000 kinda question.

In the future she'll just have to blow her electric motor with a hair dryer and pop it in the hot press over night to let it dry out and use it again in the morning. lol.

But seriously electric cars are not as close to being feasibly practical as some might wish. Batterys are still big and heavy and even with a quick charge you're still limited on range. And then there is the eternal question of where the power is sourced in the first place mainly today it's fossil fuels and nuclear.

As for the trade well look at what is being removed from Todays car. The internal combustion engine gearbox and the brakes would be replaced by the electric motor, everything else will remain the same. Electric motors don't last forever and will require replacement and/or refurbishment of certain elements. You'll still have your suspension which will be subjected to the same wear and tear as always along with non engine related electrics. Then there are the batterys again they don't last forever. A large part of their skill set will be replaced not just removed.

Run_to_da_hills

ned78 wrote: »

I don't think Diagnostic equipment for Electric cars would be all that expensive to be honest, I mean, there's (In a simplified fashion), a motor, a battery, a charging circuit, and a variable resistor aka throttle. The other ancilliaries such as wipers, headlights he'll already be familiar with..

I would be speaking more of next generation IC motors and hybrids. Even at that most modern electric cars will have complex PCB's that may be difficult or impossible to purchase spurious and one would want to know how to and have the equipment to diagnose circut problems with moisture etc

ned78 wrote: »

Not so. A very good friend of mine runs a smart paint repair system franchise, and can paint a bumper, outdoors with fast drying water based paints and lacquers in about an hour and a half.

A mate of mine in the trade tells me that new regulations are on the way about licensing paints over the counter (Brought in under environment issues) also that If the conditions are not right waterbased paints are very difficult to manage.

Owen

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I would be speaking more of next generation IC motors and hybrids. Even at that most modern electric cars will have complex PCB's that may be difficult or impossible to purchase spurious and one would want to know how to and have the equipment to diagnose circut problems with moisture etc

But all modern cars have complex PCB's as it is anyway, and they don't really suffer from moisture damage. There are dozens of cars out there from the early 90's with ECUs that are still running fine. The actual circuitry of a fully electric drivetrain is much easier to design and layout, and should reduce complexity in the car's electronics overall.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

A mate of mine in the trade tells me that new regulations are on the way about licensing paints over the counter (Brought in under environment issues) also that If the conditions are not right waterbased paints are very difficult to manage.

That's just for one sort of paint. Like all things in life, there are different brands for different applications, and provided you work with the right paints it's not that tough. My mate literally works outdoors and can have a bumper touch dry in about an hour under infrared lamps.

DJ Hafez

You could say the same about Pilots. People ask why I want to get into the profession, but there will always need to be someone behind the controls in case something goes wrong even if they are wholly computer operated in 20-30 years.

Although Cars will change, There will always need to be someone who can mend bit's and pieces. Mechanics at the moment should be touching up on their electical skills. A few night courses could mean job security in 10 years time!

beam99

Having Diagnostic equipment does't mean you can fix a car, most code readers only give you a fault code, you need the information, and possible wiring diagrams for each car to be able to trace wires, and read resistance, and to do active test's to fix a lot of the new cars on the market.

Mr.Diagnostic

Darragh29 wrote: »

That's just another fashionable spin used by main dealers to try to "up market" their aftersales business.

Yes, to a large extent I think you are right, Technician sounds better. It makes it sound like the man looking at the car would know what he is talking about better than a mechanic.

If you differentiate between mechanics and technicians with mechanics being the ones who look after the mechanical parts and techs being the ones who deal with the tech side of cars like diagnostics then the sad truth is that both mechanics and technicians of a good level are in very short supply.
Most of both like to refer to themselves as being technicians, in reality very few are.

Darragh29

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

Yes, to a large extent I think you are right, Technician sounds better. It makes it sound like the man looking at the car would know what he is talking about better than a mechanic.

If you differentiate between mechanics and technicians with mechanics being the ones who look after the mechanical parts and techs being the ones who deal with the tech side of cars like diagnostics then the sad truth is that both mechanics and technicians of a good level are in very short supply.
Most of both like to refer to themselves as being technicians, in reality very few are.

This is the problem with the industry, there is a rush to put a marketing construction/spin on things and nobody stops to think of what has to be done behind the scenes in terms of training, upskilling and skilll validation/testing, to put actual substance behind the change in terminology.

The amount of electronics now coming with a vehicle, the job description of someone resolving these issues should be "Automotive Engineer", and that person should be an actual engineer, as in should have an honours degree in Automotive Engineering which has a strong grounding in electronics.

I know a few electronic engineers working in industry (HP, Intel, etc), and they all specialise in one system or specific area of a manufacturing process. Someone who is successfully resolving advanced issues on cars/engines, whatever his title at the moment, has to have a very serious understanding of the mechanical theory that is present, not just on engines but also ABS/SRS and a whole load of other systems, AND they also have to understand the electrical theory, which is where a lot of folks in the motor trade are now in difficulty, because they were trained at apprenticeship stage on a 12VDC system, now sine wave functions are completely alien to them. Engine diagnostics has been treated for a number of years now as a "black art", where you had to be some kind of a wizard to be able to pull off the magic of an effective and quick diagnosis, and I think this situation has come about because of a lack of training opportunities and also a lack of career opportunities in the industry.

I've no doubt the skill level required of what we currently call a "technician", or a "mechanic who knows what he is doing", far surpasses the skill level that an electronic engineer working out in another industry would possess. The proper title for this role I think is "Automotive Engineer", in the context of a degree being available in Ireland for folks who want to learn skills at this level.