Possible Theory in light of Season 5 Episode 9 "Namaste". *Spoiler*

Liber8or

***SPOILERS WITHIN***

Please do not read this unless you have seen this episode.

I was reading the official thread regarding this episode a few minutes ago and the prevalent question that everyone seems to be asking is, why didn't Sun and Ben go back with the others on the plane?

My theory is thus: Time does not allow two occurances of the same person to exist at any single moment.

Proof:
Ben didn't join the rest in 1977 because he already is present on the island in his much younger form.
In episode 8, Charlotte's body disappeared when Time was no longer dislodged. That is because Time returned to 1977, where Charlotte was already in her younger form, much the same as Ben.

Crucially; Sun was on the island in 1977.
How and why?
I reckon Sun's father can be drawn in parallel to Charles Widmore. Both are successfully powerful business men. As we saw with Widmore, he used his knowledge of the future to succeed financially, perhaps Sun's father also did this. Therefore, we could assume that Sun and her father were on the island at that time. Or as another poster referred to, (the guy who does the Orienatation videos), his child is infact, Sun.

What does this say about the future of the show?

Now that Time is no longer dislodged, and is allowed to proceed along it's path, synchronisation has to take place. While one occurance of a character exists in one time line, the ability to connect the timelines for synchronisation can not take place.

Ofcourse, this theory would then indicate the show will follow down the path which questions if time can be manipulated in the past, to alter (or correct) the future.

Side Note - The rustling of the trees as Lupidis and Sun arrive at the ruined Dharma Base, I believe to be the monster. I also have a side theory that the monster is "time correcting itself". But that's for another day... :P

Ron DMC

All well and good for when time is constant (i.e. After locke turned the wheel), but there were a couple of occurrences of two versions of characters in the same time during the time jumping.
We had Sawyer seeing claire delivering her baby. All the losties (and juliet) were on the island at this stage.
We also had the hatch light up in the distance (when Locke was knocking it in S1). This was 2004 again and they were all on the island.

But you could be on to something if the second wheel turn caused this.

Liber8or

Indeed, the theory would only apply when time is constant.

It's why I believe it will all end with one final turning of the wheel. When the moment is right, when all threads connecting past, present and future are tied, the wheel will be turned one more time to reset the island back to it's "default" status. John Locke was the only one who could bring them all back to the Island, but nothing was said about if he was the one to bring them back to the correct timeline.
The thread about Sun, is dislodged.
The thread about Ben is also dislodged, and so is Locke.
These threads need to be resolved and in order so the wheel can be turned once more and finally synchronise.

I reckon it will come back to Faraday and Desmond.

Here is why:

Ben swore he would kill Penny in revenge for Widmore killing his daughter. This storyline seems to have disappeared, or has it? Again it comes back to timing...

Desmond left Penny to go to find Faraday's mother and, upon discovering the plan to go back to the island, he declared his life is not bound to the island but to Penny.
When Jack and Ben were preparing to go see Faraday's mother, Ben told Jack he had something to finish and would meet him later. I reckon he went to kill Penny and her son, (to prevent Widmore having a legacy and fulfilling his promise of revenge). Desmond will only discover this after he left Faraday's mother's church and returned to find them dead. With his bond now severed and all that remains is the Island and to kill Ben for what he did.

Regarding Faraday;
When Desmond was having the flashbacks and was losing control of his life, Faraday told him to find him in England and he will help Desmond synchronise. At the end of this episode, Faraday was looking at his journal and it said "Desmond is my way back". Or something to that effect.

Faraday left the island, as referenced by Sawyer in S5E9, he left to find a way to prevent the future and save Charlotte's life. I believe he needs Desmond to then get back to the island with what he has learned, so he can "correct" time.

This correction can only be achieved when all loose ends are tied up. Past, present and future are ready to be connected and a turn of the wheel one more time will re-synchronise everything.

purple_hatstand

I disagree.

There have been instances of characters duplicated in the same time already - the rules have also been outlined - namely, that you can't change stuff. This is a particular space-time continuum theory which is based on the idea that anything that has happenend, has happened and that, therefore, wanting, willfully, to change stuff is just impossible. It is commonly used to explain UFO's, ghosts and other unexplainable 'paranormal' phenomena. I don't necessarily subscribe to it myself because I prefer to think that there might be some point to being able to travel through time as opposed to this 'helicopter' type of 'visitation' time-travel.

Faraday and Desmond are important characters but everything they experience is from the POV of the audience. They are classic characters in this respect.

Faraday is a cipher - a hugely intelligent mathematical scientist with previous connections to the island (which serve as motivation for his return) but with an investigative rather than an endgame-forcing agenda. As he figures out what's going on, he tells the other characters and, by extension, us. It doesn't appear as if he is in control of events to any great degree and we know what he knows without really needing to know anything about him.

Desmond IS the audience - in almost every sense, he is an unwitting pawn whose actions are all reactions to the actions of those around him. Obviously, he is also intrisically 'good' and has other 'flawed hero' character traits as well as the most romantic love story - this is why we love him so.

The key character is Richard. We are surely going to find out what happened between him and the young Ben (the teacher and the pupil). The narrative quadrangle concerning those two and Locke and Widmore is where the power-plays will unfold.

ArmitageShanks

I think you might be writing Faraday off as a regular character far too easily.

He is too heavily linked with Whidmore, what with him funding his research, to be just another investigator. I believe he is the ever clever man who built the lampost station off the island. The man that his mother was talking about.

I think Faraday and Whidmore are in it together and they are manipulating events through time in order to get the outcome they desire. What that outcome is im not too sure..

Maybe they were the ones who set up the DI and they need to change events in the past to ensure its survival.

oleras

Does anyone remember the scene where the 1 armed doctor was on tape conducting experiments with time travel and there was something about 2 bunnies with the same number...what was the outcome ?

Psychedelic

oleras wrote: »

Does anyone remember the scene where the 1 armed doctor was on tape conducting experiments with time travel and there was something about 2 bunnies with the same number...what was the outcome ?

Yeah the Orchid video, what about it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bTvAUVPyLI

D-FENS

Liber8or wrote: »

***SPOILERS WITHIN***

why didn't Sun and Ben go back with the others on the plane?

Not too sure about Ben, he's a bit of a law unto himself, but i reckon Sun not going back to 1977 has something to do with Locke promising Jin he would'nt bring her back (Technically, he did'nt bring her back to Jin's version of the Island i.e. 1977)

ArmitageShanks

D-FENS wrote: »

Not too sure about Ben, he's a bit of a law unto himself, but i reckon Sun not going back to 1977 has something to do with Locke promising Jin he would'nt bring her back (Technically, he did'nt bring her back to Jin's version of the Island i.e. 1977)

Really like the theory that sun didnt go back because locke promised sun. Gives the idea back that Locke has alot more power on the island then he knows.

Well played.

D-FENS

ArmitageShanks wrote: »

Really like the theory that sun didnt go back because locke promised sun. Gives the idea back that Locke has alot more power on the island then he knows.

Well played.

Thanks, if it's the only thing i guess right about this mindf*ck of a tv show, i'll die a happy chap

Jazzy

Liber8or wrote: »

Side Note - The rustling of the trees as Lupidis and Sun arrive at the ruined Dharma Base, I believe to be the monster. I also have a side theory that the monster is "time correcting itself". But that's for another day... :P

good thinking batman. why'd it kill eko tho?

i still think desmond has the biggest part to play yet
and jack of course
its all going to be jack jack jack at the end.

Leeby

Liber8or wrote: »

Regarding Faraday;
When Desmond was having the flashbacks and was losing control of his life, Faraday told him to find him in England and he will help Desmond synchronise. At the end of this episode, Faraday was looking at his journal and it said "Desmond is my way back". Or something to that effect.

Faraday left the island, as referenced by Sawyer in S5E9, he left to find a way to prevent the future and save Charlotte's life. I believe he needs Desmond to then get back to the island with what he has learned, so he can "correct" time.

Faraday wrote "Desomnd will be my constant" not his way back. Des is his constant in case his mind became dislodged in time.

[QUOTE=Liber8or; "Or as another poster referred to, (the guy who does the Orienatation videos), his child is infact, Sun."
[/QUOTE]

I get the feeling that his child is actually Miles. You know the way when they all started getting nosebleeds Daniel said he thought it has something to do with length of time spent on the island. Charlotte got one first, then the next one to get a nosebleed was Miles so must've spent time on the island before, a longer amount of time than the losties.

D-FENS wrote: »

Not too sure about Ben, he's a bit of a law unto himself, but i reckon Sun not going back to 1977 has something to do with Locke promising Jin he would'nt bring her back (Technically, he did'nt bring her back to Jin's version of the Island i.e. 1977)

Yeah but Locke didn't go back in time either though?

Also Starring LeVar Burton

Why didn't Frank and Lapidus go back in time, then?
Also, if the part about Miles being the baby is possibly true, it means that the same person can live in the same time at different ages, right?

homerun_homer

CaptainNegative wrote: »

Why didn't Frank and Lapidus go back in time, then?
Also, if the part about Miles being the baby is possibly true, it means that the same person can live in the same time at different ages, right?

Which is why I came up with the theory that Sun is the baby, especially since her dad has connections to Dharma, it's beyond the realm of possibility (what isn't in Lost) that she was on the island before and was 'adopted' for some reason. Maybe when Pierre Chang realised Dharma would be exterminated he sent her away. By this I am referring to the video where he urges the viewer to change history and gives details from the future.

I do believe Miles was on the island before also. There's been plenty of references to make you believe so, including the nosebleed and it might also somehow explain his tendancy to understand what's going on with the dead.

As for Lapidus, he's the one who throws the whole "they can't exist twice in the same time" theory into question because he hasn't appeared/hinted to have been there before.
Also if the DarkUFO spoiler is to be believed

then this whole theory is wrong but might have lements that are correct.

Liber8or

My initial theory seems to be circling the drain, but the idea about the wheel being turned a third time might still hold...

As of episode 11 and the details revealed by Hurley/Miles and, the information about the finale on DarkUFO that someone posted a link to, it seems credible that the series is steering towards that conclusion.

Since Ben doesn't remember being shot by Sayid, perhaps it is directly related to the fact that none of the survivors of Flight 815 don't remember how they ended up on the island. Entering the Temple, probably means you enter a place disconnected with the outside world and the effects of that world are rendered useless. The person probably enters some sort of stasis field where time stands still, you enter a sleep and forget what happened up until that point. (Jack waking up, practically unscathed, in the middle of bamboo has always annoyed me and made me think about how he got there - His wound, patched up by Kate, is really nothing in comparison to what falling into bamboo would actually do).

The preview for Episode 12 is up ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP68-WQuhG8 ) and hints at Ben "resolving" the Desmond and Penny dilemma.

The "judgement" reference clearly indicates the Monster, and could be verified by Mr. Eko's judgement. However, judgement could mean "correcting", since we were told that "Whoever turns the wheel must never come back to the island", of which, Ben "broke the rules" by returning and therefore the Monster must correct/judge Ben.

Overall, the Series is picking up pace and I am enjoying the last few episodes...

don ramo

Liber8or wrote: »

The "judgement" reference clearly indicates the Monster, and could be verified by Mr. Eko's judgement. However, judgement could mean "correcting", since we were told that "Whoever turns the wheel must never come back to the island", of which, Ben "broke the rules" by returning and therefore the Monster must correct/judge Ben.

and as christian told locke "since when has listening to benjamin linus gotten you anywhere", ben is a liar, he just wanted to get to whitmore thats all he done while he was off the island