Volvo s40 or Honda Accord

roosterman71

My old lad has decided he'd like to replace his Astra with a diesel saloon that would give him some comfort in his older age. He's being looking around and likes the look of the s40 and accord (he also likes the BMW 320d but that's a bit too expensive)

He'd be buying spanking new, and trading in a 03 Astra estate (1.4 petrol). My question is, which new car is best - the Volvo (2.0) or Honda (2.0/2.2)? What could he expect to pay? Whats the reliability like on both? Trade in values in a few years? Are they hard on juice? You know the usual questions.

Thanks in advance.

Hellrazer

Accord all the way.

A million times a better car than the s40.

johnplayerblue

Head says Honda, Heart says Volvo but only cos i like the body on the s40

http://lh3.ggpht.com/jkadamika/SCFdLoMXcsI/AAAAAAAAAUM/Z9rOBLbVD_A/%5BUNSET%5D.jpg

Stevie Dakota

If he is buying new and can afford it then it has to be the new Accord, the S40 is a older design and class down (or three!) from the Honda. The Honda a good deal more expensive of course.

EPM

i think the accord would suit best for a bit of comfort. The s40 is really nice but the new accord would be far better. Lovely wagon

anthony4335

S40 resale is shocking, but in general a nice car. Suggest going for the V50 if you do decide on Volvo. Accord feels better inside the cabin and the new facelift it nice. Take a look at the new Mazda6 nice looking car and the new A4 way nicer interior than the last model.

Stephen

+1 for the Accord. The diesel in the Accord is available in 2.2 litre form only. The 09 ones have the new i-DTEC engine which makes 148bhp whilst being very economical and low in CO2. Its also the first diesel Accord that's available with an auto gearbox, although that will put a bit of a dent in the economy and CO2.

Biro

Accord is a league ahead of the S40. It's only 2.2 for the diesel, but €290 road tax. Go for that. It would be better for reliability, comfort and resale.
Also as said, check out the new Mazda 6, but be sure it's the new 2.2 diesel. That'll be worth more and is a brand new unit. Might be worth checking out the Legacy too, very well priced and ultra reliable.

unkel

The S40 is just a Ford Focus with a different jacket on. The Accord is a full size bigger, more refined and allround a better car. It will be more reliable and it will keep it's value better.

That said, did your father check prices of the 320d? They have come down quite a bit and BMW do this "Sterling prices" thing where they import cars from the UK to take advantage of the cheap exchange rate. A BMW 320d used to be a good bit more expensive than the Accord diesel, but the difference might be a lot less now. Have him check it out before ruling out the BMW!

bazz26

I'd also like to point out that the S40 has been around since 2004 whereas the Accord is only around since the begining of the year. As said the S40 is based on a car that is in a class smaller than the Accord so if he needs the space he will find it lacking in the S40.

Resale value wise the S40 makes a great second hand car as they depreciate quite rapidly and generally are better speced, good if you are buying but bad if selling. The Accord will fair that bit better.

Green Hornet

Accord all the way.

Beautiful car and bound to be bulletproof reliability wise.

Biro

unkel wrote: »

The S40 is just a Ford Focus with a different jacket on. The Accord is a full size bigger, more refined and allround a better car. It will be more reliable and it will keep it's value better.

That said, did your father check prices of the 320d? They have come down quite a bit and BMW do this "Sterling prices" thing where they import cars from the UK to take advantage of the cheap exchange rate. A BMW 320d used to be a good bit more expensive than the Accord diesel, but the difference might be a lot less now. Have him check it out before ruling out the BMW!

The thing is though the BMW is definately not as comfortable as the Accord, and it's smaller and less well spec'd unless you pay a few bob, so unless the OP's father likes steering feel and more precise turn in then there's really no way I'd recommend the 3-series over the Accord. Unless you want the handling then it looses out in every other department.

roosterman71

I wet to test drive both cars today. The father was busy so I said I'd have a look.

Took the S40 for a spin. they only had the 1.6 diesel on demo so couldn't drive the 2.0l. Anyway, seemed a very solid car, but a little down on power. There was also some quiet obvious turbo lag which I didn't like. I guess the 2.0 would improve on that though. I also didn't really like the inside. The central control panel looked very stuffed with buttons in a small area, even though there was plenty of space to spare around it. All in all, I liked the drive, but not the interior look. Seemed way too cluttered.

Then took an Accord for a spin. First thing I noticed was that it is massive inside. It was so roomy it was weird. The engine noise is alot more noticeable when accelerating. It didn't feel as solid on the road either, but I guess thats due to the sheer size of it! Its alot more comfortable than the S40 too. And much more user friendly as well, even though there was plenty of buttons to press too.

Here is the prices quoted anyway.
Volvo s40 SE 2.0 diesel (with R-design) €33600
Honda Accord 2.2 i-DTEC Type S €37500

EPM

with the astra being an 03 it wont be worth a whole lot. Try getting a few cash prices up north maybe. Someone on here got a 318d se for about 31k or something. Could flog the astra easily if cheap enough

Mycroft H

My granda got an s40 recently very nice car. 2.0 liter diesel with buckets of poke. All leather interior and really comfortable..... Cant comment on the honda tho as i've never been in one.

245

There are other options in that price range - does it have to be one of those two? The Jaguar X Type for instance.

roosterman71

They're the 2 he fancies

pburns

I think the 1.6D S40 would be better resale given Irish obsession with small engines. The S40 is a much smaller car anyway - Focus-sized rather than Mondeo/Accord-size.

Rumour has it the S40 will not be replaced and that the S60 will shrink to 3-series/A4 size in the next model cycle.

The Accord is just better all-round, can't think of anything more suitable. X-Type is OK but a bit old-hat at this stage. OK s/h but I wouldn't buy one new. Mazda 6? Some have doubts about the 2.0D engine and Mazda specs are a bit strange.

245

roosterman71 wrote: »

They're the 2 he fancies

It depends on a lot of things so - I'd be inclined towards the Accord because I think that the S40 is overpriced and slightly out of its depth in that sector - its really a niche model that sits slightly below the Accord. Resale is bound to be better on the Honda as well. The only issue that I can think of with the Accord is its size. If he's comfortable with a Astra-sized car then he might take time to adjust to the bigger Accord. He'd really need to drive both and see how he likes them to drive and also how he feels about manouverability. Honda diesel reliability hasn't been wonderful over the last few years but the new engine is said to be an improvement over the old and anyway he'll have an extra year's warranty over the Volvo for some peace of mind.

unkel

245 wrote: »

Honda diesel reliability hasn't been wonderful over the last few years

That's new to me. I can't remember anyone mentioning it on here before either. Care to elaborate? Any links?

tuxy

pburns wrote: »

I think the 1.6D S40 would be better resale given Irish obsession with small engines.

Have you heard about the new tax system?

245

unkel wrote: »

That's new to me. I can't remember anyone mentioning it on here before either. Care to elaborate? Any links?

From Honest John for Accord 2003 - 2008: (Civic diesel has related problems). There are also DMF issues reported on the Technical Forum of the same website.

(http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/index.htm?md=665)

Have been turbo failures on CDTIs.

Report of heavy use of rear brake pads and discs. Corrosion occurs on the
edges of the metal backing of the pads which make the pads tight in the calliper.
When the brakes are applied the pads move in towards the disc, but when the brakes are released they cannot not retract a few thou and so are constantly wearing down. Best to replace the rear pads every 12,500 miles.

Reports of heavy oil consumption as bad as 1,000km a litre on some CDTis and no low oil warning light, only oil pressure light so needs regularly checking.

Reports of mid 30s fuel consumption of early 2.2iCDTIs.

Reports of problems with electrics: central locking and electric tailgate.

Problems with ABS and radio speakers.

Noisy automatic transmissions due to known software fault with transmission ECU.

Have been cases of water ingress into rear wheel bearings.

Problem of 2006MY 6 speed manual boxes on diesels jumping out of 1st gear. Modification available from Honda, but parts on back order in March 2007.

Report of faulty voltage regulator on 2.2iCDTI at 20k miles.

Report of dealers charging £100 to adjust non adjustable hydraulic tappets of 2.2 diesel.

Report of dealers repeatedly overfilling with oil at services.

Numerous report of fuel strainer/fuel filter of 2.2iCDTI clogging in cold weather leading car to run in 'limp home' model.

Reports of problems with inlet manifold swirl chambers of 2.2iCDTIs at high mileage. Also of inlet manifolds cracking, emitting fumes to the cabin. Best to have replaced before the 3 year 90k mile end of warranty. Though even after, Honda will sometimes pick up the tab.

Report of cracked injectors on 2.2iCDTI after 100k miles.

Stephen

I'd take that stuff on honest john with a grain of salt. My ould fella is getting 50+ mpg out of his 2.2 ictdi. Anyway, the 09 ones have a new diesel engine.

roosterman71

The new model accords have an i-DTEC diesel engine instead of the iCTDI. I'm guessing they're not on the market long enough for an accurate assessment of issues they'd have.

cnocbui

245 wrote: »

From Honest John for Accord 2003 - 2008: (Civic diesel has related problems). There are also DMF issues reported on the Technical Forum of the same website.

(http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/index.htm?md=665)


Report of cracked injectors on 2.2iCDTI after 100k miles.

That's terrible! Nothing less than 500K miles would be acceptable.

These are reports of parts failing, so what? There is no indication whatsoever of how common these supposed faults are, they could be single instances for all we know. To be meaningful, these reports would need some numerics or statistics to truly show whether there is an intrinsic problem or whether they are rare and insignificant instances.

Honda repeatedly top large scale UK surveys for reliability and customer service, ahead of all other makes.

nextbestintown

Honda is not in the same class as Volvo. Good engines but there for your bog standard toyota type drivers. Volvo s40 has class.

The 1.6D is EUR104 per year to tax and goes for miles and miles and miles and miles............ frightfully economical.

bazz26

nextbestintown wrote: »

Honda is not in the same class as Volvo. Good engines but there for your bog standard toyota type drivers. Volvo s40 has class.

The 1.6D is EUR104 per year to tax and goes for miles and miles and miles and miles............ frightfully economical.

And dog slow to boot

and btw thats coming from the owner of one.

Edit: just noticed this thread has been dug up from 18 months ago.

Green Hornet

nextbestintown wrote: »

Honda is not in the same class as Volvo. Good engines but there for your bog standard toyota type drivers. Volvo s40 has class.

The 1.6D is EUR104 per year to tax and goes for miles and miles and miles and miles............ frightfully economical.

I wouldn't put the S40 in even the same sector as an Accord and a 1.6 diesel will not compare with a 2.2 diesel in terms of performance either. Dont know how you can make your statement. Then again
its different strokes for different folks I suppose:)

Hellrazer

nextbestintown wrote: »

Honda is not in the same class as Volvo. Good engines but there for your bog standard toyota type drivers. Volvo s40 has class.

The 1.6D is EUR104 per year to tax and goes for miles and miles and miles and miles............ frightfully economical.

Honda are a million times better than Volvo.Even down to reliability the warranty rate with us on Volvo to Honda was about 85% Volvo to 15% Honda.

We hardly ever carried out warranty work on Hondas.Performance wise Honda will outdo most new Volvos except for the older "Real Volvos" as I call them ie Volvos own engines in the likes of the s60,s80,v70 etc.

four18

1.4 engybe 69000 milesm 3.5 k askin ptice 2003 model

VolvoMan

Each car has its own merits. Ths S40 is slightly more prestigious and has a better interior than the Accord, while the latter car has a repuation for reliability and the advantage of chain driven engines.

The Accord, however, I have always found to be unrelentingly dull and lacking the final touches that make it a premium car. Things like the cheap style boot hinges and the bonnet that requires a rod to hold it open are small details that I don't like to see on a car that puts itself ahead of the Avensis/Mondeo etc.

Green Hornet

VolvoMan wrote: »

The Accord, however, I have always found to be unrelentingly dull and lacking the final touches that make it a premium car. Things like the cheap style boot hinges and the bonnet that requires a rod to hold it open are small details that I don't like to see on a car that puts itself ahead of the Avensis/Mondeo etc.

How do you compare the 1.6D Volvo and 2.2 diesel Accord performance wise? The Accord will blow it away. I know if I was deciding between the two a rod to hold up the bonnet and the hinging system in the boot would not be the deciding factor between the two.

I think the Accord is a more striking looking car too but to be fair, neither the Accord or the S40 are exactly stunning looking are they?

Tea 1000

The interior of the new Accord is a lot nicer than the now a bit plain S40 interior. The Accord is all-round a better package.

djimi

Accord any day; its not even a fair contest!

VolvoMan

Green Hornet wrote: »

How do you compare the 1.6D Volvo and 2.2 diesel Accord performance wise?

You don't; you compare it with a 2.0D or a D5.;)

I think the Accord is a more striking looking car too but to be fair, neither the Accord or the S40 are exactly stunning looking are they?

The V50 (estate version) I think is quite stunning for a sportwagon. It is certainly better looking than the coffin shaped Accord Tourer anyway.

R.O.R

VolvoMan wrote: »

You don't; you compare it with a 2.0D or a D5.;)

Screw the 2.0D - the D3 is where it's at now

I can only imagine it would be very difficult to get power down in an S40 D5, but I wouldn't mind having a go!

langdang

VolvoMan wrote: »

The V50 (estate version) I think is quite stunning for a sportwagon. It is certainly better looking than the coffin shaped Accord Tourer anyway.

The new accord tourer is a huge improvement on the previous one - that had serious hearse-from-the-future looks. V50 is nice but a bit small. (altho that's what the V70 is for I suppose)

VolvoMan

R.O.R wrote: »

I can only imagine it would be very difficult to get power down in an S40 D5, but I wouldn't mind having a go!

I don't think the new D5 (bi-turbo) will be available in the S40/V50. The most powerful it gets in those cars (C30 included) is D4, which has about 180bhp I think.

bazz26

Current S40/V50 is being phased out towards the end of this year afaik and being filled by the new S60/V70 which is more inline with the 3 Series/A4 for size than the old S60/V70.

I don't think Volvo have any plans to introduce an A3/1 Series size saloon/estate to replace the S40/V50 hence why they haven't received the new corporate nose seen on the C30/C70, etc. Word on some of the Volvo forums is that the next generation C30 range will spawn a 5dr liftback similar to the A3 Sportback to fill the void left by the S40/V50.

VolvoMan

bazz26 wrote: »

Current S40/V50 is being phased out towards the end of this year afaik and being filled by the new S60/V70 which is more inline with the 3 Series/A4 for size than the old S60/V70.

The V70 now serves as a direct estate variant to the S80. The new estate version of the S60 is going to be called V60, and here's a picture:

I don't think Volvo have any plans to introduce an A3/1 Series size saloon/estate to replace the S40/V50 hence why they haven't received the new corporate nose seen on the C30/C70, etc. Word on some of the Volvo forums is that the next generation C30 range will spawn a 5dr liftback similar to the A3 Sportback to fill the void left by the S40/V50.

I reckon the S40/V50 are now going to live out their lives in peace and eventually be phased out.

R.O.R

bazz26 wrote: »

Current S40/V50 is being phased out towards the end of this year afaik and being filled by the new S60/V70 which is more inline with the 3 Series/A4 for size than the old S60/V70.

I don't think Volvo have any plans to introduce an A3/1 Series size saloon/estate to replace the S40/V50 hence why they haven't received the new corporate nose seen on the C30/C70, etc. Word on some of the Volvo forums is that the next generation C30 range will spawn a 5dr liftback similar to the A3 Sportback to fill the void left by the S40/V50.

That's what I thought too Bazz, but Volvo stated completley the opposite when they were in with us last week.

S40/V50 will still be around for the next couple of years.

If they bring the pricing down, could shift a few more. New D2 engine does a much better job of moving the car than the 1.6 badged engine did - even though it's pretty much the same engine I think

bazz26

R.O.R wrote: »

That's what I thought too Bazz, but Volvo stated completley the opposite when they were in with us last week.

S40/V50 will still be around for the next couple of years.

If they bring the pricing down, could shift a few more. New D2 engine does a much better job of moving the car than the 1.6 badged engine did - even though it's pretty much the same engine I think

Well if they do keep it around then they will need to bring it into line with the rest of the range and seriously reduce the price to the mid to low €20k. Unfortunately I can see them stripping out the generouse standard kit in order to do this.

R.O.R

bazz26 wrote: »

Well if they do keep it around then they will need to bring it into line with the rest of the range and seriously reduce the price to the mid to low €20k. Unfortunately I can see them stripping out the generouse standard kit in order to do this.

SE Model has already lost the full leather to bring it in line with specifications in the rest of Europe, but they have the SE and SE Lux priced the same at the moment and the LUX has the full leather, but is missing some of the toys from the old LUX.

O/T - Just back from a spin to Sprucefield in the New S60. This one is fitted with adaptive cruise control and it rocks! First time I've ever driven anything with adaptive cruise control and I like it a lot.

Apart from steering input, didn't have to touch anything from the Hillsborough roundabout to the Drogheda North M1 exit.

J77

VolvoMan wrote: »

I don't think the new D5 (bi-turbo) will be available in the S40/V50. The most powerful it gets in those cars (C30 included) is D4, which has about 180bhp I think.

I have seen S40s with the current D5 (which is now the old D5). 205bhp is too much for an S40 to handle so it most likely wont be available. I've heard about the D4s though.

For the price of the accord I'd certainly look at the new s60. If the 320d is too expensive I'd go with a 318d. Best option if you could go to 40,000 is definitely a 520d. Especially if you can get the new (F10) model.

bazz26

R.O.R wrote: »

If they bring the pricing down, could shift a few more. New D2 engine does a much better job of moving the car than the 1.6 badged engine did - even though it's pretty much the same engine I think

I would imagine the new 6 speed gearbox has alot to do with it's improvement.

VolvoMan

J77 wrote: »

I have seen S40s with the current D5 (which is now the old D5). 205bhp is too much for an S40 to handle so it most likely wont be available. I've heard about the D4s though.

No, I'm pretty sure the new D5 won't be making an appearance in the S40. The D4, however, which has basically the same output as the old D5, is available as the top model.