Paypal Claim

TerrorFirmer

I sold an N95 on Ebay, to a user with 300+ feedback. All seemed to go OK, he paid, I sent via registered post, then just now I see hes claimed that someone else used his account. Paypal say I have to fax them proof of having sent it - but how the **** am I supposed to do this?

Yes, I have a tracking number, and all that, but how am I supposed to prove that it was an N95 sent? How do I prove it ever arrived? (Just after noticing that anpost don't record for delivery outside of Ireland, not sure what the point of international registered post is then really because now I have no freakin way of proving it went to his address).

If I loose this money I am ****ed because, god knows why, my Nokia N71 only fetched a muscular 20 euro on Ebay, and my old 7650 bit the dust today. I was relying on that money to get my new phone but poof, its gone...

I have to say I'm not sure why Ebay is still so popular but any sale/purchase I've made in the last while that didn't involve an actual registered business has had problems....think I'll stick to adverts.ie from now on.

And what the **** is the point of allowing international registered post if there's no recording of it - does that not render is precisely the same as normal post?

jor el

Unfortunately for you, I think you're pretty much screwed. An Post have stopped recording the delivery address on the receipts, so even with a tracking number, you have no proof of where that was actually sent to. If they also can't track it outside Ireland, you're doubly fubar.

Can you track it on the recipient countries site (like Royal Mail or what not)? I sent a letter to the UK a few months back, and it did show up as delivered on An Post's site, but I couldn't get the signature details.

If you had taken all the money out of your Paypal account, then I'd advise you walk away. De-register and don't use them again. If your money is on hold till this is sorted, then I'm afraid it's going to go against you.

Smaller sellers can't survive on eBay. Only the very large sellers can afford to take the hit on claims like this, be they fraudulent or genuine. Sellers always loose claims.

jhegarty

I presume you have the paypal email with his address on it ?

Won't that prove that his address was the one sent to you , hence it couldn't be a hijacked account.

TerrorFirmer

Can I take something up with An Post about this? I really fail to see how they can charge for registered international, and ask how much the item is worth, and then just state 'Sorry we don't record delivery outside of Ireland' when something does crop up...

The item was sent to his address, his ****ing email used to open the dispute is even composed of his name! As in, first firstname.lastname@gmail.com

So why would paypal even entertain that it was hijacked?

jor el

That's probably why Paypal are asking you to prove where you posted it to, so that they can check if it was sent to the registered owners address, or an alternate address. Without an address on the tracking number receipt, I don't know if Paypal will accept their own email as proof of where you would have posted it too.

If An Post have no tracking info available, you could claim on the insurance, and it should work. Just tell them the recipient is claiming non receipt, and get them to check.

TerrorFirmer

Yeah. I'll have to follow all this up. Ugh, nightmare. Their own email gave the address as the same one that was given in the resolution center as the address of the disputer, so it seems to me its obvious that it was sent to the right address - but I'm stumped as to why someone with 100% positive feedback on 100's of transactions would do this?

My girlfriends gone to the Post Office this morning to try and get proof from there where it was sent - they took it down anyway, as I saw them writing in a book when I sent it off. I wonder would Paypal accept something like that?

Eireann

Terror

You need to supply them with everything you have ie. the invoice, the tracking number and any correspondence.

You cannot fail since you have the tracking number, well done you for sending it recorded.

Enter in the number here btw : http://postcode.royalmail.com/portal/rm/track?catId=22700601

Make sure you include the IE at the beginning too.

Be firm with Paypal, if you need help writing them emails etc let me know, I have had to open up and deal with problems in the past.

TerrorFirmer

I hate the format of the resolution center, I wish there was a way to send emails through it rather then having to go to 'Contact US' on the main site when you want to contact them about your specific case...

Hopefully this will all work out, my girlfriend got onto an Post and they were actually able to track it, it's in a sorting center in England en route to that address. Still can't figure out how an earth Paypal would entertain this claim, when the item was sent to the address provided, it's turned out to be the accounts real address, and his email is the same as the name given for the recipient....all very strange.

Eireann

Let us know how ya get on?

Bob Z

But isnt the buyers own responsibility to look after his/her own ebay account?

jor el

Bob Z wrote: »

But isnt the buyers own responsibility to look after his/her own ebay account?

Unfortunately, no. Paypal offer (some) protection to buyers for having their account hacked, and worse again, they often penalise the seller (who acted in good faith) by taking back the money from them. Sellers have no way to verify the authenticity of a buyers identity, this is Paypal's job, and yet when fraud is committed, Paypal make the seller pay.

Bob Z

jor el wrote: »

Unfortunately, no. Paypal offer (some) protection to buyers for having their account hacked, and worse again, they often penalise the seller (who acted in good faith) by taking back the money from them. Sellers have no way to verify the authenticity of a buyers identity, this is Paypal's job, and yet when fraud is committed, Paypal make the seller pay.

SO i or anyone else could go out and buy a laptop or ipod and then say my account was hacked into? Doesnt sound very fair

jackbauer

ebay/paypal is completely weighted towards buyers. It always was but since they changed the feedback system last year its became a joke. I gave up selling on ebay years ago due to this sort of nonsense.

jor el

Bob Z wrote: »

SO i or anyone else could go out and buy a laptop or ipod and then say my account was hacked into? Doesnt sound very fair

Yes you could, and no, it's not very fair. Some people do exactly this, and it could be what's happened with the OP.

Headshot

I suppose u dont have the postage receipt?

CaraFawn

I fail to see the point between this user account been hacked and you sending the good?
He paid and you sent the item, a simple post receipt will suffice. Plus it was registered, so you are more than grant. Nobody can provide the proof of the content of the box sent.
You certainly have nothing else to provide regardring the fact this guy got his account hacked.
You really have to stand on your position.

If the guy said you sent him a pair of socks that would be a different story. But account hacked...no relation whatsoever. Item has been sent to his registered Paypal address I suppose anyway. So he got it..

Not your business

TerrorFirmer

I have the postage receipt and a valid tracking number An Post can trace for me.

Paypal still found against me and said that they had to return the funds to the buyer, and that I was not entitled to reimbursement.

Shower of ****ing ***** - I'm done with paypal and ebay from here on.

Eireann

Terror, I have one word for you - APPEAL

I appealed a wrongdoing they made against me, got my money back AND a goodwill gesture.

TerrorFirmer

How do I appeal in an effective manner (as in, who do I speak to) and is it possible to take PayPal to the small claims court?

jor el

Any time I've ever spoken to Paypal, either on the phone or through email, I got the feeling that they weren't even listening to me. You just get stock answers to generic questions that may only be vaguely related to your actual question.

Small Claims might be a good one, worth trying out considering it's very cheap.

TerrorFirmer

I keep asking them if I don't qualify for re-reimbursement under their seemingly worthless 'seller protection' scheme, who the hell would?? But they keep just giving me vague answers how they've found in favor of the buyer, and I'm not entitled to reimbursement, always worded differently but never specific. They keep directing me to a page as well which yet again words the same facts differently but nowhere is there a list that details these alleged seller protection requisites...

I'll try calling them but the thing is I'm in college all day and don't have time to be on the phone for ages, trying to sort out details and files...so it might be Thursday before I can do that.

Eireann

Terror, I wrote and sent a STINKING email to all the head honchos (about 20 email addresses in full) outlining my case.

To be quick, I sold an item that was Euro only, mentioned something like 5 times in the ad, bought by a UK buyer, who recieved and then opened up a SNAD - Significantly not as described.

She got the money back, wouldnt send the vouchers back, and then proceeded to re-sell them as her own. I was raging - I really was on a rant in the email.

It wasnt even about the money, the sale price was €12 with free postage. It took 4-6 weeks but eventually I got an email, the refund + €20 goodwill and a phone call letting me know all about the result.

I was really pleased as I know the buyer was in the wrong for not reading the listing.

With you having the tracking number, this should have been found in YOUR favour, not the buyers.

I will root around for those email addresses, but it possibly won't be until tomorrow until I can gather them all for you. Some were also returned undelivered, but still worth a try to email EVERYONE.

The person on the phone explained that my mail got to the Directors of the company!

Eireann

Small Claims would be the port of call after appealing to ebay imo. Why pay out costs when theres a possibility of sorting it through Paypal for free.

Headshot

TerrorFirmer what about doing a credit card charge-back

thats what im doing at the moment

Eireann

How can they do a chargeback? Terror is the seller, not the buyer?

Headshot

Eireann wrote: »

How can they do a chargeback? Terror is the seller, not the buyer?

ah sorry taught he was a buyer but he should look into it

see is it possible for a seller

Eireann

Unfortunatly it wouldnt be an avenue for Terror as the seller, only buyers can raise chargebacks.

Still trying to get those email addresses!

Eireann

Terror, just remembered I had the email addys posted in an ebay group that I am a member of...

http://groups.ebay.co.uk/clubboardthread.jspa?forumID=18000018224&threadID=18000171542

CC your email to ALL the addresses, thats what I did.

If you need help with your letter, or if that link wont work for you, lemme know

TerrorFirmer

Thanks guys - very much appreciated.

Eireann

Best of luck !

TerrorFirmer

Got a few replies so far, most of them automated - one even gave me this huge explanation as to why my account my locked...even though it isn't.

Will keep you updated as they come in. Got one from Appeals most importantly, saying they will review my case.

Eireann

Nice one

Its a slow process, but bear with it.

TerrorFirmer

Result! I received an email from <someone> saying as a gesture to a valued customer my account would be credited by the value within 72 hours.

Lets hope it goes through now!

Thanks to all who helped, especially Eireann, very much appreciated...!

Eireann

Nice one Terror, am delighted for ya

TerrorFirmer

I even got a phone call from <someone> to talk to me about it, she was really nice and helpful...

What I didn't realize was that Seller Protection does not extend to Ireland - only the UK, Aus, USA, France, Canada and one or two other countries....!

But they're crediting the amount to my account, and I really couldn't ask for better service seeing as I only contacted them yesterday.

But from now on...no more private selling, only purchasing....it's simply far too risky.

Eireann

A truly great result. I think it gets the sh*ts up them when you start emailing the 'big boys'.. and you did.

Bob Z

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Result! I received an email from Siobhan Cody saying as a gesture to a valued customer my account would be credited by the value within 72 hours.

Lets hope it goes through now!

Thanks to all who helped, especially Eireann, very much appreciated...!

But the buyer must also be getting his money refunded which he/she shouldnt

Bob Z

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

What I didn't realize was that Seller Protection does not extend to Ireland - only the UK, Aus, USA, France, Canada and one or two other countries....!

So Irish Sellers must be at a disadvantage when it coes to selling on Ebay

Eireann

Bob Z wrote: »

But the buyer must also be getting his money refunded which he/she shouldnt

I think in this scenario they would take the money back from the buyer, if they had enough cash in their account of course. If not, they will limit it until he/she either tops it up or else leaves it, and then it'll be renderred useless.

TerrorFirmer

Bob Z wrote: »

So Irish Sellers must be at a disadvantage when it coes to selling on Ebay

Yes, majorly - I've decided I'll no longer sell anything on Ebay in future, only purchase.

Eireann

Seems very strange that the protection isnt extended to Ireland. I wonder how many Irish based sellers have been shafted with this, and never knew to appeal?

TerrorFirmer

Yep, it basically means you can sell by the guidelines, using registered and insured post, but if the buyer makes a fraud claim you're automatically going to loose your money. And that's not a risk I'm willing to take again.

jor el

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I really couldn't ask for better service seeing as I only contacted them yesterday.

In fairness, you could have asked that they not put you through this in the first place, when it's blatantly obvious that the buyer was scamming you. As a seller, you can't even leave that as feedback on the buyers account, so he's free to go on a scam others too, others who may not be aware of how to appeal the scam.

It's a very poor situation, when you have to contact head people in any company, just to get them to do what the people below them should be doing.

Bob Z

Eireann wrote: »

I think in this scenario they would take the money back from the buyer, if they had enough cash in their account of course. If not, they will limit it until he/she either tops it up or else leaves it, and then it'll be renderred useless.

I could be wrong but my guess that they have decided reimburse the seller from their own money. I think ebay can do this at their own discretion based on the sellers previous good record.

jackbauer

As jor el stated the unbalanced feedback system on ebay has made it nearly impossible to conduct selling without major headaches and losses. Consider ioffer.