Death or Glory?

Legion2008

Ok ... there's 77 minutes on the clock, Ireland are trailing by 6 and have just been awarded a very kickable penalty ... what's the decision? Take the points and secure the championship or go for the corner and risk it all for the slam?

Basically is it all or nothing for us .... ? Are we expecting perfection.

My vote is take the points ... it's been far too long since we've won the championship.

amacachi

Championship. Simple as that.

bleg

risk it all for the slam.

not much of a risk anyway imo... i think that if we were in that situation and we needed a try that we'd get it with the leadership and fitness shown by this team.

chupacabra

This is a non issue. They will go for the corner every single time. 6 points down? There is no "risk" involved in the first place. Go to the corner and HEAVE over the line!

popefrayne

it ant in the nature of the irish to settle wel probly lose sat but ifmits hundred te one dat means dares stil one and dat wud mean one mad fek of a session on de beer:D:D

Stealdo

It's been pretty much covered in some of the other threads, but as far as on the day goes, I have no doubt whatsoever that the championship doesn't exist without the slam in the mind of the Irish players. Everything will be about winning the game. Perhaps later in the year, in ten years a championship won on points difference might be something.

(Now if they were down by 14 with 3 mins to go and had a penalty under the posts there'd be a decision to make)

amacachi

Ah right, down by 6, straight into the corner.

Stealdo wrote: »

It's been pretty much covered in some of the other threads, but as far as on the day goes, I have no doubt whatsoever that the championship doesn't exist without the slam in the mind of the Irish players. Everything will be about winning the game. Perhaps later in the year, in ten years a championship won on points difference might be something.

(Now if they were down by 14 with 3 mins to go and had a penalty under the posts there'd be a decision to make)

Into the corner. Why go for 3 points and then give away territory and the risk of conceding, when they can just go for the corner and keep possession well up from their own tryline.

curts82

why not go for it!! We'd be on here slating em if they didnt go for it!! o gara can still miss a kickable pen!

Podge_irl

amacachi wrote: »

Into the corner. Why go for 3 points and then give away territory and the risk of conceding, when they can just go for the corner and keep possession well up from their own tryline.

Well if Ireland are down by 14 then the championship is Wales'. There is no real decision to make there - a try would earn Ireland nothing. Slot the points and trust your defence to hold Wales out.

amacachi

Podge_irl wrote: »

Well if Ireland are down by 14 then the championship is Wales'. There is no real decision to make there - a try would earn Ireland nothing. Slot the points and trust your defence to hold Wales out.

Ah sorry, it's 13 Wales need to win by isn't it? Keep forgetting.

Aye, take the kick. Damn slowly. Then hold onto the ball.

Spore

if we're down by six we win the championship anyway, tis a no-brainer, go for the line

Aidric

Spore wrote: »

if we're down by six we win the championship anyway, tis a no-brainer, go for the line

Exactly, poor maths by the OP.

komodosp

Go for the Corner! It's not all or nothing, you're assuming the Welsh will score a try in the last few minutes... Better to go for glory! Fortune favours the brave! He who dares wins ...and all that

Not poor maths by the OP... I think s/he means that 3 points will put the championship beyond the reach of the Welsh, whereas with 6 points in it, they could score a try and make it 13...

barnesd

After 77mins you'd take the points.

fifth

Go for the slam, no question..

gearstick

barnesd wrote: »

After 77mins you'd take the points.

who would take the points with only 3 mins left in a match? clearly if you have any confidence in your team (forwards specifically) you would go for he corner.

i dont think this is an issue anyway tbh, i doubt the irish team will be thinking about points difference when they take to the pitch on saturday, it's all about the win

[Jackass]

At 6 points down, even if WE concede a try, we can still win the championship if it goes unconverted, that's a reasonably strong position to be in - championship is looking safe and in the bag barring a length of the field break by wales and we have the chance at 3 minutes, 5 meters from the opposition line to win the slam. I'd fancy our chances. Go for the corener, go for the slam!!

Imagine the tention for the conversion though!! :eek:

bleg

can we please kill this thread, it's making me nervous

Jesus1222

This is madness. The only thing that matters this week is the Grand Slam. A Championship will be scant consolation if we don't do it. In fact it would probably be worse than losing by 14 points. I would prefer to be well beaten than lose a tight game.

phog

Jesus1222 wrote: »

This is madness. The only thing that matters this week is the Grand Slam. A Championship will be scant consolation if we don't do it. In fact it would probably be worse than losing by 14 points. I would prefer to be well beaten than lose a tight game.

Nonsense. A championship would have very been acceptable to most rugby followers after our AIs. Just because we're within reach of ther GS shouldn't mean the Championship is worthless if the GS isn't achieved.

Back to OP, if 7 or 5 will deliver the GS we go that, other than that we retain the ball and kill off the clock.

Colm_OReilly

By 77 minutes Best will be on, and we can only hope they haven't elected for a long line out (which we've missed first time everytime we've made a prop sub)

However, it's all hypothetical, Ireland will be leading at 77 minutes, and slowing the game right down in between the Welsh 10 metre and 22 line, just waiting for our penalty to come

twinytwo

barnesd wrote: »

After 77mins you'd take the points.

:eek: when we have one of the best line out jumpers in the world, Take the line out... 3 options

Either 1)Flannery to O'Connell to O'Leary to O'Gara with cross field kick to Bowe because williams wont have much chance of stopping him.

2) Flanney to O'Connell who keeps the ball, maul and ruck do it the hard way with ferris,wallace, heaslip picking and going battering away at the fringes

3) Or same as above except at ruck O'Leary passes out wide with O'Driscoll making **** of henson to score the winning try

Then if there is anytime left for the kick off so long as we dont make a france of it game,set and match

Erin Go Brath

A no-brainer really. Its Slam or bust for our boys or else they'll gain a reputation for bottling.

Erin Go Brath

twinytwo wrote: »

:eek: when we have one of the best line out jumpers in the world, Take the line out... 3 options

Either 1)Flannery to O'Connell to O'Leary to O'Gara with cross field kick to Bowe because williams wont have much chance of stopping him.

2) Flanney to O'Connell who keeps the ball, maul and ruck do it the hard way with ferris,wallace, heaslip picking and going battering away at the fringes

3) Or same as above except at ruck O'Leary passes out wide with O'Driscoll making **** of henson to score the winning try

Then if there is anytime left for the kick off so long as we dont make a france of it game,set and match

With under 3 mins left its up the jersey time and option 2. Lets see what these Welshies are made of. If they can keep us out they deserve the win.

Legion2008

Interesting to see the various comments about the slam being the most important thing going .....

Don't forget this generation of irish rubgy players (and the previous ones) have absolutely nothing to show for their time served. No trophies at all to look back on, no success (and before somebody pipes up the triple crown isn't a real trophy).

Who remembers the final few minutes in the Italy/Ireland game in 2007, we went for the corner instead of taking the points, lost the ball and then the italians ran up the field and scored a converted try, a minimum of a 7 points swing in france's favour and then they went on an got the requisite number of points on the board against scotland. We could of made their task a lot harder by making them score at least another 7 possibly 10 points in order to win the championship. Did the french discount the championship win simply because it wasn't a slam? Had things turned out differently that day would we not of celebrated? Who here would of said that the championship is nothing?

Would there have been a difference in the mentality of the irish players had we gone into the world cup later that year as 6 nations champions .... it's speculation of course .... but I reckon had we been winners there would of been a mental strength and a belief about the team and things could of been different.

There is no glorious failure, only failure. This team needs to have something real to look back on to say definitively that they were winners.

I still stand by my statement of take the points ....

Mr.Applepie

popefrayne wrote: »

it ant in the nature of the irish to settle wel probly lose sat but ifmits hundred te one dat means dares stil one and dat wud mean one mad fek of a session on de beer:D:D

Reading this hurts my brain!

Go for the corner!

Erin Go Brath

Legion2008 wrote: »

Interesting to see the various comments about the slam being the most important thing going .....

Don't forget this generation of irish rubgy players (and the previous ones) have absolutely nothing to show for their time served. No trophies at all to look back on, no success (and before somebody pipes up the triple crown isn't a real trophy).

Who remembers the final few minutes in the Italy/Ireland game in 2007, we went for the corner instead of taking the points, lost the ball and then the italians ran up the field and scored a converted try, a minimum of a 7 points swing in france's favour and then they went on an got the requisite number of points on the board against scotland. We could of made their task a lot harder by making them score at least another 7 possibly 10 points in order to win the championship. Did the french discount the championship win simply because it wasn't a slam? Had things turned out differently that day would we not of celebrated? Who here would of said that the championship is nothing?

Would there have been a difference in the mentality of the irish players had we gone into the world cup later that year as 6 nations champions .... it's speculation of course .... but I reckon had we been winners there would of been a mental strength and a belief about the team and things could of been different.

There is no glorious failure, only failure. This team needs to have something real to look back on to say definitively that they were winners.

I still stand by my statement of take the points ....

Boo to that post! Its attitudes like this that have been the reason we haven't won the Slam since 1948. We really have to go for the juggler tomorrow, no questions asked. If we fail we fail and so be it, but at least if they give it everything they have and fight till the death we can't ask any more. Settling for losing by 12 or less is a mugs game!

twinytwo

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Boo to that post! Its attitudes like this that have been the reason we haven't won the Slam since 1948. We really have to go for the juggler tomorrow, no questions asked. If we fail we fail and so be it, but at least if they give it everything they have and fight till the death we can't ask any more. Settling for losing by 12 or less is a mugs game!

Exactly


If this situation was to arise i really couldnt see O'Connell/O'Driscoll going for the three. Because to go for the three would mean a lack of self belief and that is something that this team dosent lack. Id love to see ireland win from a set piece with O'Connell/O'Driscoll doing some serious damage to the welsh defence.

As our best players i can really see them sticking it too the welsh. Get up in their faces from the off with big hits and quick passes...If wales beat us they will have to bleed to do it...

Erin Go Brath

twinytwo wrote: »

Exactly


If this situation was to arise i really couldnt see O'Connell/O'Driscoll going for the three. Because to go for the three would mean a lack of self belief and that is something that this team dosent lack. Id love to see ireland win from a set piece with O'Connell/O'Driscoll doing some serious damage to the welsh defence.

As our best players i can really see them sticking it too the welsh. Get up in their faces from the off with big hits and quick passes...If wales beat us they will have to bleed to do it...

You can sing it! POC/DOC/BOD and everyone else have been playing down the importance of the game to the media as part of their preparation. However winning means everything and all of the boys in Green jerseys will run through walls in order to get the job done tomorrow. The hunger for victory must be enormous. I genuinely think Wales won't know what hit them. Hoping it'll be like Croke Park '07 v England all over again in the passion stakes, albeit with better opponents.

Jesus1222

phog wrote: »

Nonsense. A championship would have very been acceptable to most rugby followers after our AIs. Just because we're within reach of ther GS shouldn't mean the Championship is worthless if the GS isn't achieved.

Back to OP, if 7 or 5 will deliver the GS we go that, other than that we retain the ball and kill off the clock.

It's not "nonsense" at all. It will be scant consolation, the players will be destroyed if they don't do it. Hopefully we won't get to test this theory out.

Amazotheamazing

Right now I would take the Championship, a Grand Slam would be nice but it's not as if we are laden down with Championships either.

Eoin

Is there another trophy for winning the grand slam or something? If we had a lost a game already and this was a championship decider, rather than a grand slam decider - would people still be disappointed with winning it?

cruiserweight

What about if we are 6 points down on 77 minutes with possession in our own 22, should we try something like this or play out the clock

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eqg5B4XY8-o

death1234567

Winning a championship on points difference means bollock all. Grand Slam or bust.

Eoin

death1234567 wrote: »

Winning a championship on points difference means bollock all.

Yep, it would just mean having to go to the trouble of making space in the trophy cabinet... oh wait.