Miami Hurricanes, Notre Dame could renew football rivalry

bobby wade

Miami Hurricanes, Notre Dame could renew football rivalry

By BARRY JACKSON
After a nearly two-decade break, Notre Dame athletic director Jack Swarbrick said the Fighting Irish is ''very interested'' in playing Miami again in football, and the interest is mutual.
UM's Kirby Hocutt initiated talks with Swarbrick, who became Notre Dame's athletic director in July. No dates are set, but talks will resume in April, Swarbrick said by phone Monday.
NBC's Notre Dame contract includes seven Irish home games and one prime-time neutral site game annually through 2015. ''You could do that,'' Swarbrick said of the neutral site game, ``plus do one home and home.''
UM and Notre Dame played annually (1971-1985 and 1987-1990) before the Irish discontinued the series. A Notre Dame student printed ''Catholics vs. Convicts'' T-shirts before the epic 1988 game in South Bend, Ind., which Notre Dame won 31-30. UM won five of the past seven meetings and hostilities rose during and after Miami's 58-7 win in 1985, when the Canes were accused of running up the score.
Playing Miami is appealing, Swarbrick said, because ``they are two great academic institutions. We're eager to play schools that share our values. There's a lot of great history around the games.''

Rented Mule

Ahhhhh ....the old Catholics v. Convicts games of the 80s.

RichTea

Can Notre Dame be good again already?

tallaghtoutlaws

RichTea wrote: »

Can Notre Dame be good again already?

I cant ever see them challenging for a BCS in the near future. They just cant recruit the same quality anymore. Weak schedules and being independant is not helping them.

LuckyLloyd

RichTea wrote: »

Can Notre Dame be good again already?

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

I cant ever see them challenging for a BCS in the near future. They just cant recruit the same quality anymore. Weak schedules and being independant is not helping them.

Meh, I'm not sure the scheduling or being independant is a hindrance tbh. If anything, those factors contributed to their BCS bowl appearances in 2005 and 2006. The schedule they are playing at present would earn them a National Title bid if they could beat it. Sagarin ranked their schedule as the 50th toughest in the nation last year. Penn State's was considered 55th - and it was accepted that Paterno's charges were in the mix for a title decider if they had managed to hang on in Iowa and win out. You simply need to look at the schedule rankings for some of the teams that were in the national championship conversation at various points of last season or ended up in BCS games to realize that ND will get in the big game if they sort themselves out enough to beat their current opposition (Alabama, Mizz, Texas T, Utah, OK St). Notre Dame is an academic and general sports affiliate of the Big East, but hitching up to it for football would probably weaken revenues while failing to improve the schedule rank. There is no real advantage to be gained from it imo.

The NBC deal is still an advantage in recruiting aswell. Any player who goes to ND and is good enough for the next level won't be overlooked because he is in Southbend - and if he is exceptional he will become a national star (Brady Quinn).

And indeed, recruiting hasn't really been a problem the last few years. The classes Weis has brought in have been graded favorably by the various national scouting outlets. Good athletic talent and potential is turning up in Indiana, just to be sold short by poor fundamental coaching on the part of Weis and his staff. I mean, Mante Te'o (considered the top defensive prospect in the country coming out of highschool by ESPN) turned down USC and others for life around the dome, indicating that the strong religious traditions of the school appealed to him. For sure, ND is in the hunt for a different type of player than finds their way to the SEC - but the name and the history of the school has not been muddied so badly that it can't compete decently for recruits. Well not yet at least. And don't forget that the Te'o capture demonstrates that ND retains an ability to reach across the whole country for new talent.

Looking back at last season, they were in the game @ Michigan State until midway in the 4th quarter and suffered heartbreakers against Pitt and UNC. A couple of bounces here and there and they may have been 8 - 0 and full of confidence traveling to Boston. And then who knows how the season may have finished out? I would have liken to see Weis fired, because I think we underachieved relative to our talent level last season. But being able to say that means that the talent level is not too far off where we need it to be. As long as the problem is coaching, the possibility of turning things around remains.

Though of course, the longer we wait to get rid of Weis (otherwise put as how long before the economic situation improves so the university can afford to eat his contract) the more diminished our recruiting ability becomes. From next year on, the number of highly touted highschool players who leave Southbend embittered at a program who squandered their futures away will begin to build. And could eventually could reach a point where the reputation of the University is tarnished to such an extent that it takes years to claw back the lost credibility. The worst case scenario is for ND to be reduced to depending primarily on second rate regional recruits / strongly catholic recruits. At that point I'll start believing that it is impossible to restore past glories.

eagle eye

Nice post there Lloyd.

There were some problems last year, a huge one was a terrible field goal kicker which cost us games. Bah can't chat now, but come back to this later.

Just to add before I go that there is no excuse for not having a semi decent kicker. This guy was awful.

Dodge

I think Jimmy Clausen could step up too. I'm definitely not writing him off yet.

Aren't ND due to play in Ireland soon enough (2/3 years?)

EDIT; found it http://www.und.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/111005aac.html

Due to play in september 2012

tallaghtoutlaws

wow didnt realise there was this many ND Fans in here. A friend of mine from MI who is half Irish always compares ND to Celtic. If you are Irish you will put on the Fighting Irish t-shirt just like you would a Celtic shirt. :D:D:D

eagle eye

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

wow didnt realise there was this many ND Fans in here. A friend of mine from MI who is half Irish always compares ND to Celtic. If you are Irish you will put on the Fighting Irish t-shirt just like you would a Celtic shirt. :D:D:D

I visited the place years ago and its infectious. I still have some love for the Eagles but the Irish are my first team.

Dodge

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

wow didnt realise there was this many ND Fans in here. A friend of mine from MI who is half Irish always compares ND to Celtic. If you are Irish you will put on the Fighting Irish t-shirt just like you would a Celtic shirt. :D:D:D

They'll follow the Boston teams too

Wouldn't consider myself a fan of any college. In fact I think anyone who picks a US college to follow when they haven't gone to school there is a bit weird.

I was just answering the question as to whether they can be good again

tallaghtoutlaws

Dodge wrote: »

They'll follow the Boston teams too

True that. But im no Celtics or Bruins fan well not really take interest every now and again. Also when it comes to baseball I follow the sport but not in one particular team. Will always check Brewers and Red Sox results first. As for eagles I have friends who went there and are also folk i went to Pats games with so it seemed right lol

Its funny though back when I started following the Patriots I though it was unique to be following american football and the Patriots how naive was I as a 11 year old Fricking every paddy follows teams in MA haha dont get me started on band wagoners either :D:D

I have nothing against ND been to south bend really beautiful college and that stadium is outstanding.

tallaghtoutlaws

Dodge wrote: »

Wouldn't consider myself a fan of any college. In fact I think anyone who picks a US college to follow when they haven't gone to school there is a bit weird.

I felt the same once upon a time until I sat beside folk at a badgers game who lived in WI and never went to the college either. Some years later I found that the more college games I have been to 50% of the stadiums are made up of college students. 20% Alumni and the rest away fans and general football fans who support their local big college. Alot of folk in WI for example will follow the Badgers aswell as the college they also attended. Personally though Im an Eagles fan first but I have been to so many Div 1 D1aa and D2 and D3 games over my years I love college football in general.

LuckyLloyd

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

I felt the same once upon a time until I sat beside folk at a badgers game who lived in WI and never went to the college either. Some years later I found that the more college games I have been to 50% of the stadiums are made up of college students. 20% Alumni and the rest away fans and general football fans who support their local big college. Alot of folk in WI for example will follow the Badgers aswell as the college they also attended. Personally though Im an Eagles fan first but I have been to so many Div 1 D1aa and D2 and D3 games over my years I love college football in general.

Yeah, I think that following ND and wanting them to do well without having attended there is no different to fellahs from Ireland following Man Utd or Liverpool or whatever without having lived over there or gone to many games. I genuinely love college football and basketball and keep in close touch with what is going on in it. And when I'm over that side of the Atlantic I'll try and fit in games when I can. If I'm weird then **** it, I'm weird.

eagle eye

Dodge wrote: »

In fact I think anyone who picks a US college to follow when they haven't gone to school there is a bit weird.

No its you thats weird if you think that.

Dodge

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yeah, I think that following ND and wanting them to do well without having attended there is no different to fellahs from Ireland following Man Utd or Liverpool or whatever without having lived over there or gone to many games.

But they're even weirder. At least you have the argument tht they're aren't any college teams in ireland you can support

Can anyone give me a reason why they support any particular college team? tallaghtotlaw's is fair enough

tallaghtoutlaws

Dodge wrote: »

Can anyone give me a reason why they support any particular college team?

You will get generally the same reasons why anyone supports any team really. One argument I had one night in a bar in Milwaukee a dude asked why would I support a college team or any american football team. I told him I love the sport and when I was a kid the Patriots made an impression on me and I followed them. He then asked why I like the BC Eagles and I told him while in Boston I fell in love the campus and spent time going to games with alumni. He tried to rubbish me and say that was daft. I told him unlike him we dont have the oppurtunity they do to go to these large colleges as easy as they do. But we like the sport and generally will support the first team that we come in contact with and like. I wish I could script the whole conversation I made him feel very small.

Funny thing is most college football fans will follow big colleges aswell as the one they attended. And that is fact. All of my friends in the US have their Alumn college and if they are from an actual college town in the US that college also. I know a guy who goes to Wake Forest but also follows UNC as he is from that area. And if the kid went to a D1aa or D2 or D3 college you will find they will also support the local big D1 college.

So in this sense there is nothing stupid about any of us supporting any college. College football is aimed to be as commercial as the NFL hence why there is so much money in it.

Dodge

Sorry if I came across a bit strong there. IIn no way am i saying anyone here need explain to me anything or apologise for supporting anyone. It was more a general query than anything else

LuckyLloyd

Dodge wrote: »

But they're even weirder. At least you have the argument tht they're aren't any college teams in ireland you can support

Can anyone give me a reason why they support any particular college team? tallaghtotlaw's is fair enough

Dodge wrote: »

Sorry if I came across a bit strong there. IIn no way am i saying anyone here need explain to me anything or apologise for supporting anyone. It was more a general query than anything else

When I first took a proper interest in American sports (around 2001 or so I would say - though I watched some of the CH4 show "Blitz" as a kid), I got drawn to Notre Dame because of the Irish Catholic thing. And like anything else, I read up on them, got familiar with the team and followed their results for a couple of years - and then before you know it you're involved enough to call yourself a 'fan'.

Over the last few years I've been over to the States a couple of times and traveled it extensively. Been to South Bend. I have friends living in North Dakota, some of which would have attended either of their universities (and I've been around NDU in Grand Forks a couple of times), so I followed NDSU basketball's trip to the NCAA first round this year and will try and catch NDU in the NCAA Ice Hockey tournament this week. I spent some time in Ithaca last summer (beautiful part of the world) and toured Cornell so I'd keep an eye out for how their basketball team is getting on.

When I first started following the NFL, I admired Testraverde, Pennington and Coles for the Jets and liked the coaching style of Herm Edwards. Read up on them, etc as above with Notre Dame and before you know it you're a fan. Love New York obv and been to a game before in East Rutherford.

Blah, blah. These are ramblings obv, but the point is that I very much like US sports. I like actively following sports (as opposed to being content with simply a neutral perspective) and have just taken to some of the teams over there. Sometimes for shakey reasons (the ND 'Irish' thing), sometimes because I liked the area they are from when I visited it (Ithaca). Sometimes because someone I know lives near where they play (North Dakota). I'm (relatively speaking for people over here) well informed on what is going on within the US sporting sphere and have picked up a fair bit about the various cultures and traditions surrounding sport in North America.

But all of the above is irrelevant and beside the point so long as I enjoy it. And modern sport is about entertainment. I'm a consumer, it's something I use to pass the time. I follow local teams in our sports aswell, attend games on this side of the Atlantic. I'm a sports junkie in a way - and this is something I'm in to. Like a particular type of music or whatever.

My position should be clear!

Sea Devils

Dodge wrote: »

Can anyone give me a reason why they support any particular college team? tallaghtotlaw's is fair enough

I got drawn to the Seminoles around 2005. Think they were playing the Hurricanes at the time and it came down to a last minute FG attempt or something like that. Without really researching the programme's history I decided to become a FSU fan for a few years until I grew fed up with the negative criminal association with the programe and decided to follow the Cal Bears instead . Mind you I wasn't a huge fan of FSU I looked out for their results and tried to watch as many games as possible but just never felt drawn to them at the same time .

To me it made perfect sense following Cal because all my Sports teams bar Baseball are in the Bay Area and B I love the San Francisco area in general:)

Rented Mule

RichTea wrote: »

Can Notre Dame be good again already?

They have been in the Top Five in recruiting the past few years ad I believe that two years ago they were number one.

They get the quality, they haven't had the coaching.

LuckyLloyd

2008 NCAA Graduation Success Rate for BCS Football Programs


1. Notre Dame 94% <

---

2. Stanford 93
T3. BC 92
T3. Duke 92
T3. Northwestern 92
6. Vanderbilt 91
7. Wake Forest 83
8. Texas Tech 79
T9. Baylor 78
T9. Nebraska 78
T9. UNC 78
T9. Penn State 78
T13. UConn 77
T13. Indiana 77
T15. Colorado 75
T15. Iowa 75
T15. Syracuse 75
T15. Virginia Tech 75
19. Cincinnati 73
T20. Illinois 70
T20. Michigan 70
T20. Miami 70
T20. Rutgers 70
24. Florida State 69
T25. Clemson 68
T25. Florida 68
T25. Maryland 68
T25. Wash State 68
.........................................
T29. Kansas State 67
T29. Pitt 67
31. Virginia 66
T32. South Carolina 65
T32. Washington 65
T34. Oregon State 64
T34. Ole Miss 63
T34. Miss State 63
T34. Purdue 63
T34. West Virginia 63
T34. Wisconsin 63
T40. Okla State 62
T40. UCLA 62
42. Arizona State 60
T43. N.C. State 59
T43. Missouri 59
45. Louisville 58
46. Auburn 57
T47. Kentucky 56
T47. Texas A&M 56
T47. South Florida 56
T50. Alabama 55
T50. Iowa State 55
T52. LSU 54
T52. Tennessee 54
T52. USC 54
T55. Cal 53
T55. Oregon 53
T55. Kansas 53
58. Ohio State 52
T58. Arkansas 52
T60. Minnesota 51
T60. Michigan State 51
62. Texas 50
T63. Georgia 48
T63. Georgia Tech 48
65. Oklahoma 46
66. Arizona 41

---

As long as they insist on kids going to class and graduating, they will not legitimately contend for the title. I'm not a Weis fan but in today's NCAA, even Rockne couldn't win. Most of the kids at Okla., Fla, LSU, USC...etc couldn't even get in to ND, let alone graduate from it.

And tbh, I'm comfortable with the situation as it is. Win it the right way or don't win it at all.

tallaghtoutlaws

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

2008 NCAA Graduation Success Rate for BCS Football Programs


1. Notre Dame 94% <

---

2. Stanford 93
T3. BC 92
T3. Duke 92
T3. Northwestern 92
6. Vanderbilt 91
7. Wake Forest 83
8. Texas Tech 79
T9. Baylor 78
T9. Nebraska 78
T9. UNC 78
T9. Penn State 78
T13. UConn 77
T13. Indiana 77
T15. Colorado 75
T15. Iowa 75
T15. Syracuse 75
T15. Virginia Tech 75
19. Cincinnati 73
T20. Illinois 70
T20. Michigan 70
T20. Miami 70
T20. Rutgers 70
24. Florida State 69
T25. Clemson 68
T25. Florida 68
T25. Maryland 68
T25. Wash State 68
.........................................
T29. Kansas State 67
T29. Pitt 67
31. Virginia 66
T32. South Carolina 65
T32. Washington 65
T34. Oregon State 64
T34. Ole Miss 63
T34. Miss State 63
T34. Purdue 63
T34. West Virginia 63
T34. Wisconsin 63
T40. Okla State 62
T40. UCLA 62
42. Arizona State 60
T43. N.C. State 59
T43. Missouri 59
45. Louisville 58
46. Auburn 57
T47. Kentucky 56
T47. Texas A&M 56
T47. South Florida 56
T50. Alabama 55
T50. Iowa State 55
T52. LSU 54
T52. Tennessee 54
T52. USC 54
T55. Cal 53
T55. Oregon 53
T55. Kansas 53
58. Ohio State 52
T58. Arkansas 52
T60. Minnesota 51
T60. Michigan State 51
62. Texas 50
T63. Georgia 48
T63. Georgia Tech 48
65. Oklahoma 46
66. Arizona 41

---

As long as they insist on kids going to class and graduating, they will not legitimately contend for the title. I'm not a Weis fan but in today's NCAA, even Rockne couldn't win. Most of the kids at Okla., Fla, LSU, USC...etc couldn't even get in to ND, let alone graduate from it.

And tbh, I'm comfortable with the situation as it is. Win it the right way or don't win it at all.

Im drunk right now but what has graduation rate got to do with anything??? Bloody sure if I paid for my son/daughter to go there or they got a scholarship I would expect them to graduate. ND is one of the most expensive schools in America.

Rented Mule

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Im drunk right now but what has graduation rate got to do with anything??? Bloody sure if I paid for my son/daughter to go there or they got a scholarship I would expect them to graduate. ND is one of the most expensive schools in America.

The fact of the matter is these 'kids' are 'student athletes' with the emphasis on 'students'.

Many of these programs don't give a toss about what these kids do once they are done playing football.

LuckyLloyd

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Im drunk right now but what has graduation rate got to do with anything??? Bloody sure if I paid for my son/daughter to go there or they got a scholarship I would expect them to graduate. ND is one of the most expensive schools in America.

The point should be clear, ND has much stricter academic requirements for prospective sports scholarship students (this includes the football program), whereas a conference like the SEC / Big 12 (mostly) doesn't. The football players at ND actually go to class and complete their degrees (the majority) whereas SEC schools are much more geared to be stepping stones along the way to the NFL. As such, it should partly explain why ND has done well, but not extraordinarily well in terms of recruiting the past few years. And why they aren't developing talent with a higher success rate.

I'm not exonerating Weis of course, he needs to do much better / we need a different coach to do better. But the more I read into and think about the situation, the more difficult the task appears.

eagle eye

I cannot agree with this line.

Win it the right way or don't win it at all.

Whats the alternative for these kids that will make the NFL and won't ever graduate?

No college at all? Go to NFL teams at 18/19 years of age and increase their chances of serious injury at a young age?

I'm not saying that a college should be allowed have such a low success rate with their footballers but I think the answer lies somewhere in between. I think penalties for a low graduation percentage in some shape or form would be better. I'd rather see these kids in college at this stage than out in the real world with nobody to guide them and improve their game.

Rented Mule

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The point should be clear, ND has much stricter academic requirements for prospective sports scholarship students (this includes the football program), whereas a conference like the SEC / Big 12 (mostly) doesn't. The football players at ND actually go to class and complete their degrees (the majority) whereas SEC schools are much more geared to be stepping stones along the way to the NFL. As such, it should partly explain why ND has done well, but not extraordinarily well in terms of recruiting the past few years. And why they aren't developing talent with a higher success rate.

First off all, as a Notre Dame supporter, let me tell you that when it comesto offering scholarships to athletes Notre Dame will work with what they get. This idea that they only take the cream of the crop academically is a load of crap.

We had five students from my graduating class in high schoolgo to Notre Dame on full scholarships,one of them could barely spell his name, but when you are the top linemen in the country, they tend to overlook things like that.

One of the other linemen was collecting bets for the bookies, and was quitely dismissed before it made the news. He went on to a Big Ten school where he was later drafted and washed out of the NFL in camp.

I won't even get into the steroid issues that were going at the time.

All of the above was well and good, but the only thing that mattered was the fact that they won the National Championship a few years later.

Don't ever buy into the ND propoganda machine that they are somehow different, other than their graduation rate.

LuckyLloyd

Rented Mule wrote: »

First off all, as a Notre Dame supporter, let me tell you that when it comesto offering scholarships to athletes Notre Dame will work with what they get. This idea that they only take the cream of the crop academically is a load of crap.

We had five students from my graduating class in high schoolgo to Notre Dame on full scholarships,one of them could barely spell his name, but when you are the top linemen in the country, they tend to overlook things like that.

One of the other linemen was collecting bets for the bookies, and was quitely dismissed before it made the news. He went on to a Big Ten school where he was later drafted and washed out of the NFL in camp.

I won't even get into the steroid issues that were going at the time.

All of the above was well and good, but the only thing that mattered was the fact that they won the National Championship a few years later.

Don't ever buy into the ND propoganda machine that they are somehow different, other than their graduation rate.

Fair enough, you are obviously better informed than I am. So you are saying that ND football players are no better than the average BCS football player academically? And the much, much higher graduation rate is irrelevent?

tallaghtoutlaws

Rented Mule wrote: »

The fact of the matter is these 'kids' are 'student athletes' with the emphasis on 'students'.

Many of these programs don't give a toss about what these kids do once they are done playing football.

One thing I dont get is why you quoted me? I clearly said I would want my kids to graduate if they went to ND so my empasis was on education. And I the emphasis is on student first I never said otherwise.

And as for the goings on of colleges i am fully aware of it. I have a friend who plays as a DT for one of the biggest colleges down south and academically he should not be in this college and he knows this but he was one of the best D tackles out of his high school and in the state. What im saying he is a thick as two planks.

TheHeadhunter

Dodge wrote: »

Can anyone give me a reason why they support any particular college team? tallaghtotlaw's is fair enough

I follow the ASU Sun Devils because my auntie and uncle live in Arizona and i actually attended ASU last year but it didnt work out so ended up coming back home. That's why i support the Sun Devils!

Rented Mule

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Fair enough, you are obviously better informed than I am. So you are saying that ND football players are no better than the average BCS football player academically? And the much, much higher graduation rate is irrelevent?

Not at all, I am one of the people that will often quote graduation rates in January (usually after ND has washed out of some meaningless bowl).

ND does what every NCAA school should do. They make sure that their student athletes are just that 'students' first.

I had two cousins on ND's last National Championship team. neither one of them was a 'name' but after college they went on to do incredbily well for themselves in their chosen professions.

Rented Mule

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

One thing I dont get is why you quoted me? I clearly said I would want my kids to graduate if they went to ND so my empasis was on education. And I the emphasis is on student first I never said otherwise.

I knew we were on the same page. I was just adding on to what you were saying. Besides you were drunk !!:p lol

tallaghtoutlaws

Rented Mule wrote: »

I knew we were on the same page. I was just adding on to what you were saying. Besides you were drunk !!:p lol

Ah I see haha I was still slightly intoxicated yesterday also . Had the shakes on the sideline of my teams fine 35-6 win. One of my WR had 130 yds and 2tds in the game and one of the best one handed catches I have seen at any level. Weird thing was he was a possesion type WR in high school and yesterday he burnt the same CB so many times. Good day I have to say.

Rented Mule

Back to the topic at hand.

I would absolutely LOVE to see this rivalry renewed. Growing up an ND fan, I hate Miami with every ounce of my being. Isn't that what 14 years of Catholic education was supposed to teach me ??

tallaghtoutlaws

Rented Mule wrote: »

Back to the topic at hand.

I would absolutely LOVE to see this rivalry renewed. Growing up an ND fan, I hate Miami with every ounce of my being. Isn't that what 14 years of Catholic education was supposed to teach me ??

Who likes Miami lol

Im hoping to go to BC @ ND in October nothing better than the "Holy War" or Ireland Trophy as its really called game especially when played in South Bend.

LuckyLloyd

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Who likes Miami lol

Im hoping to go to BC @ ND in October nothing better than the "Holy War" or Ireland Trophy as its really called game especially when played in South Bend.

I also heard it referred to as the "Catholic Crap Bowl" last November.

bobby wade

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Who likes Miami lol

Im hoping to go to BC @ ND in October nothing better than the "Holy War" or Ireland Trophy as its really called game especially when played in South Bend.

NICE

Rented Mule

Experience key to Irish revival plans

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/story?columnist=maisel_ivan&id=4032629