Taking American films seriously

Cianos

I was watching Dead Mans Shoes last night, which I thought was a great film, very powerful and high in tension. Part of the impact I think comes from that it seems very real, just very normal people in a normal town.

If you were to take the same film and recreate it scene for scene, word for word, but in an American setting, would it have that same impact?

For me, British (or any non-American?) films always seem that bit more real than American films. I can only presume this is a bias of sorts, maybe it's because we are so used to over the top American films, just hearing the American accent implies that this piece shouldn't be taken as seriously. British films on the other hand seem a lot more genuine with such less effort. Maybe it's a domestic thing, that because we are geographically closer to the setting, it immediately becomes more relevant...but films from Asia, Australia, Eastern Europe all seem more convincing on average.

Maybe it is in actual fact that non American films deal with more everyday issues than the majority of American films we would see coming from Hollywood that have the budgets for big names and big effects.

Thoughts?

Karl Hungus

I'm not so sure. I think we really don't see anything resembling Dead Man's Shoes coming from the states, so it's hard to say.

One thing we need to consider is that America loves its villains to have reason, a sense of purpose even, rather than a person who'll just kill someone for no real reason at all. It's the big terrorist, or bank robber, not the kind of savage realism of the guys in Dead Man's Shoes. I think the closest would be Dennis Hopper in Blue Velvet.

SOD's Lovechild

Dead Man's Shoes is a fantastic film.

There is a lot more to American film than Hollywood big budget. It's just that it's difficult to find the smaller more intimate pictures over here. American Indie has great tradition as it happens from John Cassavettes onwards. In recent times there have been films such as Wendy and Lucy, Frozen River and In Search of a Midnight Kiss that are much more realistic in the depiction of characters. It takes a lot more effort to search these out though than usual multiplex blockbuster fare.

Running Bing

If you dont think American film can be taken seriously check out some issues of Cahiers du Cinema circa 1960...guys like Truffaut, Chabrol, Bresson, Goddard, Resnais and Bazan...now they took American film seriously.


I get what your saying though. Its about realism versus stylisation. American films tend to be very stylised while British film tends to be based more in reality.


Its nothing new when you look back at the kitchen sink dramas of the so called "British new wave" in the 60's. Of course there are exceptions to the rule on both sides of the Atlantic.

I dont think British films should be taken any more seriously though just because it uses a more realistic style....a film can be very stylised and still be just as thematically rich as a more "realistic" film and have just as much substance.


I think the films of Douglas Sirk are a good example. On the surface they appear to be pure Hollywood fantasy but if you dig a little deeper they often have very clever and profound points to make.

bnt

The description of that film reminded me a little of Gus Van Sant's Elephant: his film about a Columbine-style school shooting, which won the Palme D'Or at Cannes. It gives no real explanation for what happens, but there are hints: one of the kids is a talented pianist, but he did things to Beethoven's "Moonlight Sonata" that had me chewing a hole in the armrest. :eek:

johnny_ultimate

Wouldn't agree that American films fail to deal with important or 'realistic' issues at all. This year the likes of Rachel Getting Married (a painfully honest and believable docudrama) or the aforementioned Wendy and Lucy can easily stand side by side with stuff like the Class or Tokyo Sonata (just to pick two particularly socially aware and effective films I've seen recently). And Dead Man's Shoes may me an extraordinary film (which it really is) but at the same time for every masterful Shane Meadows film you also have a couple of generic British horror / awful gangster movies.

As Babybing points out though, a film doesn't have to be filmed in a gritty and realistic manner to be truthful. Even some of the all time great directors - Bergman, Mayazaki, Trauffaut, Kurosawa etc... - are very cinematic in from, with theatrical dialogue, surreal imagery and so on. They still say a lot about life, but sometimes in a form far removed from more naturalistic films. And even within Hollywood, exceptional films like Gone Baby Gone (a film that deserves a lot of respect for creating a hugely intelligent film within the confines of a whodunit thriller) can say a lot without being particularly realistic.

I just think America sometimes has a bad reputation, but directors like David Lynch, Charlie Kaufman, Darren Aronofsky and many many others are more than capable of producing work on a par with the best world cinema has to offer, and very often surpasses it. And as been pointed out, it isn't in the wide Hollywood releases where you will find the quality a lot of the time, although sometimes it is.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Well, for me I'd say that because the majority of American accents I hear are coming from a TV or cinema screen, everything they sounds slightly less real? I know that sounds weird, but I'd watched thousands of hours of Disney movies and US sitcoms before I was ever friends with an American (when I was about nine) and she kinda sounded like she was from the movies. It was like when I went to London, after seeing so many of the sights on TV so many times, when I was standing right in front of them they didn't seem real.

tony1kenobi

Karl Hungus wrote: »

I'm not so sure. I think we really don't see anything resembling Dead Man's Shoes coming from the states, so it's hard to say.

Isn't the plot to Dead Mans Shoes the same as every second 80's action movie??

You killed my brother/mother/baseball team...I'll have my reve

nge.


Great film though!

Karl Hungus

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

And even within Hollywood, exceptional films like Gone Baby Gone (a film that deserves a lot of respect for creating a hugely intelligent film within the confines of a whodunit thriller) can say a lot without being particularly realistic.

Fantastic film. Really, really exceptional.

tony1kenobi wrote: »

Isn't the plot to Dead Mans Shoes the same as every second 80's action movie??

You killed my brother/mother/baseball team...I'll have my reve

nge.



Great film though!

Yeah, the plot boils down to your standard revenge flick, but in style, execution and tone it's really far removed from any 80's action.

godspal

Dead man's shoes isn't a standard revenge film imo:

He has obvious resentment through-out the film for his brothers handicap state. (While I think the ending might be a bit over-stated.) Also his choice of forcing action from the outsider of the group whose inaction lead to the death of his brother was a great little twist of the knife.

There are however a few American Films that come to mind where there is a senselessness to the film. One I would particularly recommend for its sheer brutal portrayal of a serial killer is Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer. John McNaughton really visually and mentally strains the viewer, the film certainly leaves an impact by the end of it.

One thing that must be noted about american cinema is that unlike any other nation, the movies which are released are deeply influenced by america's belief in its world stature and the people's insular nature.

Vamoose Killers

Karl Hungus wrote: »

Fantastic film. Really, really exceptional.

It really wasn't exceptional. A decent debut from Ben Affleck but I was expecting a lot more from reading some reviews. Casey Affleck wasn't suited to the role so that didn't help matters. Plus it's got Morgan Freeman in it which is also a negative.

And the ending...

lostexpectation

there was nothing normal about the people in dead mans shoes, very contrived film.

faceman

American movies is far too much of a generalisation. You need to distingush between hollywood studios and the independent film makers.

Afterall there are many American made films that sit in the World Cinema section.

The Pontiac

Agree with OP, Dead Mans Shoes is class. A lot of my favourite films over the last few years are British - Sexy Beast, This is England, London To Brighton, Eastern Promises, The Bank Job and Slumdog Millionaire. Just tought about a few other of my favourites from the last few years and there not Hollywood either - The Proposition, The Counterfeiters, Lust Caution, The Lives of Others, Old Boy and Pan's Labyrinth.