Crash last year into a tractor with my son! Help

skk

Last december (2007) 3 days before christmas I was travelling for 15 mins behind a tractor, until we got to a straight road.... in which the driver of the tractor started to wave his hand in a circular like motion, which i took as an indication to overtake (no indicators flashing) so i proceeded to overtake, next thing i new, i was up on two side wheels rolling along, then came to a halt on the other side of the road... I got out the car (my baby was in the back) grabbed my son who was screaming and went to see the driver of the tractor, who said to me 'did you not see my hand???' and i admitted to him that i thought that was him telling me to overtake (which alot of tractor drivers do!) well i didnt think it was my fault (i shouldnt of taken the risk with my son in the car but tractors can be so intimidating) my solicitor had to wait nearlly a year before they recieved a response from his solicitor who now say it was my fault, so we offered a 50 / 50 settlement which they returned as a 30 / 70 settlement... im now due to respond to this and im not sure what to do! Idealy i want 100% back and im fed up that its taken so long to sort out... should i pursue it to court as i have been paying double my insurance since the accident and i had to pay out £350 excess, they are offering to pay 30% of my excess, should i ask them to pay towards my insurance or just take it to court and say its not my fault at all? Or am i to blame? Sorry this is so long, just trying to get it all in... will be very greatful for your help...

Heroditas

What does he claim the hand signal meant?

Moving your hand in a circular motion can mean this:

HAND SIGNALS

Drummerboy08

Yeah, it all depends on what that hand signal meant.

Mena

What actually happened here? Did he turn into you when you were attempting to overtake?

Owen

There's little or no point in asking for advice here OP, you're best off dealing with your solicitor as he/she is the only person qualified to give advice in this situation.

skk

That he was about to turn into a turning on his right... but he had no idicators on...

Heroditas

Circular motion means you're turning to the left .... assuming it was his right hand he stuck out.

Owen

Just to qualify the hand signal, you should never interpret any potential directions given by other drivers. If they're indicating, waving, or flashing headlights, it could be for a completely different reason than you think.

Drummerboy08

Can open.............worms everywhere.

OP, dont take any advice you get from here - listen to your solicitor. You need legal advice.

Eoin

Was the tractor turning left? That's what the hand signal should mean. Doesn't really matter - I think your solicitor is best placed to advise you on this.

GERMAN ROCKS

i would think the court would favour him. it sounds as if you were wrong but im no judge

x in the city

Think the OP is outta luck here, someone trying to understand hand signals from stupid farmer types in a tractor is the last thing someone should do. who knows what they are doing or where there are going..

mickdw

Id take anything I could get out of that one. Im assuming you were passing him and he turned right and you hit each other. If you dont settle and it goes to court, he will be sure to have his hand signals right at that stage. The case would then come down to whether he signalled in time or not and I assume at this stage it has been recorded via solicitors letters that you did actually see the hand signal before you decided to overtake. This would make it your fault and the argument that he made the wrong signal will probably not hold water as you cannot really depend on another driver to tell you what to do on the road. A driver can only signal his own intention.

Turner

I presume the tractor turned into an open field gate??

To be honest with a slow moving tractor, a farmer who puts his hand out to the right, (and i presume an entrance to a field coming up) I wouldnt be overtaking.

Im surprised overtaking before junctions is actually allowed in ireland. How often do you see broken white lines on a roadway and a junction ahead??

Its where alot of accidents happen with people overtaking and others pulling out of or turning into junctions.

Rowley Birkin QC

x in the city wrote: »

Think the OP is outta luck here, someone trying to understand hand signals from stupid farmer types in a tractor is the last thing someone should do. who knows what they are doing or where there are going..

No need for that kind of nonsense.

DanGerMus

I feel bad for you mate wouldn't wish it on anyone and i can see where your coming from. Seems like a misunderstanding to me where he was indicating with his hand and you assumed he was beconing you on which i have seen tractor drivers do.
But here i'd have to assume that seeing as there is technically no hand signal to becon someone on that you wouldn't do well in court.
Also the fact that you've asked to settle 50/50 says to me that you've already accepted partial responsibilty. Their counter offer seems like a fair one all things considered you might get them to shift another few % but would that even cover the extra expense of the solicitors letter?

This is an unqualified opinion and you should really only discuss it with your solicitor.

sharkman

But the tractor driver did not obey the basic rule "Mirror Signal , look over right shoulder ,Maneuver".

Barr

Liability would depend on the road markings .Did you try overtake on broken lines ?

Lots of cases like this go 50/50 in a court situation.But no doubt the farmer will say he was turning right thus the hand signal so the greater duty of care would be upon yourself.

70/30 would be fair enough given the information to hand as legal costs would be significant unless its within the District Court limits .

Henry Ford III

Op is responsible for his own overtaking manouvre, but tractor driver has to indicate before turning right.

After that I'll leave it up to the judicial system.

Turner

50 50 is fair in my opinion.

However if the tractor did not have operating indicators, and if they are mandatory (not sure) i would be looking for him to be prosecuted.

Might sway your civil case to maybe 70 30 if the farmer has been prosecuted and convicted.

Del2005

Chief--- wrote: »

50 50 is fair in my opinion.

However if the tractor did not have operating indicators, and if they are mandatory (not sure) i would be looking for him to be prosecuted.

If they are fitted they need to work, and I'm sure they'll be working now.

Also there is no requirment to use fitted indicators, in the motorcycle test they can still ask you to use hand signals(which is highly dangerous on a motorbike), as waving your hand in a circular monition is an indication!

If they aren't fitted they aren't required. You just run into problems if your on the road at night.

Might sway your civil case to maybe 70 30 if the farmer has been prosecuted and convicted.

The farmer gave a hand signal that the OP missunderstood, as others have said only a solictor can offer proper advice.

DUBLINHITMAN

lucky to be alive buddy , and your son .
its all insured and only metal ,look @ it that way and let your insurance go up .
its only money and metal ' you have your son in 1 piece and thats the way i'd look@ it

Skyuser

You should have denied he ever made any hand signal and complained his tractor was not roadworthy with no indicators. 100% claim.

AugustusMaximus

Chief--- wrote: »

Im surprised overtaking before junctions is actually allowed in ireland. How often do you see broken white lines on a roadway and a junction ahead??

Its where alot of accidents happen with people overtaking and others pulling out of or turning into junctions.

As far as i know, full white line or not, you should not overtake at a junction.

Don't have a copy of the ROR's at the moment so can't confirm this.

AugustusMaximus

Skyuser wrote: »

You should have denied he ever made any hand signal and complained his tractor was not roadworthy with no indicators. 100% claim.

No, that would be lying and technically perjury for which you could go to jail.

NewDubliner

Skyuser wrote: »

You should have denied he ever made any hand signal and complained his tractor was not roadworthy with no indicators. 100% claim.

If you were to state the vehicle was not roadworthy and had no indicators, you'd be admitting being aware of a greater risk.

aoibhebree

50:50 sounds about fair to me. The tractor driver was wrong in that he mustn't have been using his mirrors correctly; the OP was wrong in that you should never trust another driver's indicators/hand signals etc.

Say if the farmer had used his indicators and accidentally indicated left, when in fact he was turning right. As far as I know, the driver would still be at least partially in the wrong if he overtook then and an accident occurred, because you're not supposed to fully depend on the indicators. Too often, signals can be incorrectly used, or just misinterpreted.

NewDubliner

aoibhebree wrote: »

50:50 sounds about fair to me.

Depends also on who drove into who. Up to each driver to ensure the path is clear.