"new" HtH system

oniondublin

i've been out of the hobby for about 10 years now and am just getting back into it. from looking through a few white dwarfs and the website i can see theyve revamped the hand to hand system from what i was used to (2nd edition i think? the one necromunda was based on).

the old system involved rolling a dice for each attack, picking the highest one, adding your WS and a few modifiers for charging etc and then highest wins. it meant HtH was v unpredictable as high A could backfire with multiple 1's rolled (a fumble, -1 modifier for each) and high WS was often negated by the dice.

anyway, was just wondering roughly how the new system works. i'm not looking for a rule-by-rule account, just the basic mechanics of it.

Thanks,

O

Spear

oniondublin wrote: »

i've been out of the hobby for about 10 years now and am just getting back into it. from looking through a few white dwarfs and the website i can see theyve revamped the hand to hand system from what i was used to (2nd edition i think? the one necromunda was based on).

the old system involved rolling a dice for each attack, picking the highest one, adding your WS and a few modifiers for charging etc and then highest wins. it meant HtH was v unpredictable as high A could backfire with multiple 1's rolled (a fumble, -1 modifier for each) and high WS was often negated by the dice.

anyway, was just wondering roughly how the new system works. i'm not looking for a rule-by-rule account, just the basic mechanics of it.

Thanks,

O

Each attack is it's own attack, WS versus WS, there's no pick the highest. Charging grants an extra attack, as does two close combat weapons. Close combats usually produce a lot of bodies much quicker than the old way.

Pugsley

best you need is 3+, worst is 5+ to hit, roll 1 dice per attack.
If your equal WS, 4+ to hit, if your higher than them, its 3+ to hit, if their 2 or more higher than you its 5+.

ie: Guardie - WS3 vs Space Marine - WS4
Guard needs 4+ to hit, marine needs 3+

Guardie - WS3 vs Space Marine Commander - WS5
Guard needs 5+ to hit, Commander needs 3+
And the commander rolls multiple dice (3A for being commander, and probably +1 for 2 CCW too), so can score up to 5 hits if he charged, each rolled to wound seperately, and can be allocated on different targets if desired (target allocated before to hit rolls).

Phototoxin

its the exact same as warhammer is.

basically if your weaponskill is higher you need 3+, if his is more than double you need 5+ otherwise its 4+

Mantel

Speaking of marines they have a bolt pistol in their standard wargear, can get they get a shot off before assualt even though they have a bolter aswell or is it just used as their CC weapon?

Spear

Mantel wrote: »

Speaking of marines they have a bolt pistol in their standard wargear, can get they get a shot off before assualt even though they have a bolter aswell or is it just used as their CC weapon?

Yes, pistols count as an assault 1 weapon as well as a close combat weapon.

oniondublin

cheers, i get it now. quite like the sound of it too. seems to be better than the old system. a bit less down to the dice but still plenty of luck involved.

Pugsley

Spear wrote: »

Yes, pistols count as an assault 1 weapon as well as a close combat weapon.

Not quite, their pistols not assault
If you stand still you can rapid fire a pistol, can't do that with assault weapons.

Sycopat

Pugsley wrote: »

Not quite, their pistols not assault
If you stand still you can rapid fire a pistol, can't do that with assault weapons.

I don't think you can do that anymore,

pretty sure 5th ed pistols are assault 1 weapons which count as an additional ccw in h2h. At work now so can't check...

Not too familiar with new space marine codex but also pretty sure space marines only get a bolter or b.pistol and ccw, not both. (My source on this is space marine players, who have tried to tell me I can't have bolters and bolt pistols and ccw's on my chaos marines and who's jaws tend to drop a bit when i tell them that chaos marines get bolters, b.pistol +ccw, and frag + krak as standard... but they are 1pt more expensive on a per model basis and don't have as many special rules)

The close combat system is basically the same as warhammers for hitting and wounding as has been described.

Phototoxin

Speaking of marines they have a bolt pistol in their standard wargear, can get they get a shot off before assualt even though they have a bolter aswell or is it just used as their CC weapon?

You still only get the marines basic attack in melee unless he has a close combat weapon aswell. You can shoot in the shooting phase wiht pistols and then assault though.

The exception is the seargent who has the option of swapping his bolter for a CCW whcih means he has 2 attacks for being a verteran sargent +1 for having both a CCW and a pistol.

For example an assault marine has 1 attack basic, but he has both a pistol and a CCW (or power sword or whatever) so he gets +1 attack on top of this. +1 another attack if he charged.

Unlike 2nd edition the armour piercing of the weapon isn't used. So while logically the assualt marine has 2 attacks one of them doesn't benifit form the bolters strength or AP value.

Spear

Pugsley wrote: »

Not quite, their pistols not assault
If you stand still you can rapid fire a pistol, can't do that with assault weapons.

From page 28 of the rule book:

"All pistols are effectively Assault 1 weapons with a range of 12" (unless differently specified in their profile). In addition a pistol counts as a close combat weapon in the assault phase."

You may be still thinking of 4th edition.

Pugsley

Spear wrote: »

From page 28 of the rule book:

"All pistols are effectively Assault 1 weapons with a range of 12" (unless differently specified in their profile). In addition a pistol counts as a close combat weapon in the assault phase."

You may be still thinking of 4th edition.

My bad, it's a 4th rd rule.