Dentist up North?

That Girl..

Hey.. Does anyone know of a good dentist up North who sedates also??
I have to get 2 teeth out:(

kkth0360

Was the €5000 you were quoted in Dublin for orthodontic treatment with a Specialist Orthodontist? If so, you're not comparing like with like - there are no specialists (in any of the specialties) in the practice you recommend - they're all general dentists.

I definitely agree that quality of treatment is really not something you want to compromise on, so in my opinion if you want orthodontic treatment you'd be far better off going to a trained specialist orthodontist (either in the North if it's cheaper and you're happy to travel, or down South) as they have the training and experience to make sure you get the best possible result.

Cavehill Red

kkth0360 wrote: »

Was the €5000 you were quoted in Dublin for orthodontic treatment with a Specialist Orthodontist? If so, you're not comparing like with like - there are no specialists (in any of the specialties) in the practice you recommend - they're all general dentists.

I definitely agree that quality of treatment is really not something you want to compromise on, so in my opinion if you want orthodontic treatment you'd be far better off going to a trained specialist orthodontist (either in the North if it's cheaper and you're happy to travel, or down South) as they have the training and experience to make sure you get the best possible result.

My daughter is being treated by an orthodontist at Cavehill.
And the price I was quoted was by a general dentistry practice on the Southside of Dublin. Can name and shame if you wish.
Plus, Cavehill have a lab on site, something no Southern dentist has to my knowledge.
On the issue of quality, if it weren't for the fact that my kid's work needs regular returns to the surgery, I'd have taken her out of Ireland entirely. Cheap and all as the Northern dentists are compared to the Southern rip-off merchants, the prices are much cheaper again abroad.
I got my own teeth done in Thailand, and US embassy staff were in there at the same time. I have no problems with the work which cost around an eighth of what it would here.
But I've heard plenty of good reports from specific Hungarian dental practices too. Many of them also have their own labs, have specialists on staff and are used by the citizens of neighbouring countries like Switzerland and Austria where prices are also stupidly high like here.

davo10

cavehill red, judging by your post, your daughter has started her treatment so the quote you got was a couple of months ago. Up until around July last year the exchange rate was 66p to the Euro. £3000 sterling then was equal to € 5000. In other words the fluctuation in exchange rate is the only difference in the prices you were quoted. Also, are you the only person in Ireland who does not understand that this economy is more expensive to do business in. If dentists/grocers/carpenters etc here charged the same as our counterparts in the north, they would be considerably less profitable and have a lot less in their personal bank accounts at the end of the month than the Northerners.

Let me ask you this, would you take a pay cut so that your earnings are in line with your counterpart in the North/Hungary/Bulgaria?, and if not, do you feel you are ripping your employer off by being paid more?. You no doubt would like dentists here to take a 30-50% pay cut to match foreign clinics despite the fact that this would mean providing treatment at a loss. Pull your head out buddy!

Many clinics in the South do have labs. I do not have one in my clinic because I like to be able to send work to the best labs in Ireland/England/Sweden/US. A lab can be good at ortho and no so good at implants etc so it is good to be able to change if another lab does better work.

Cavehill Red

My daughter started her treatment at the end of November. 3000 sterling wasn't anything near 5000 euro at the time.
And the disparity in dental prices either side of the border dates back as long as I've been researching the area, which is 2001. Here's an article dating from then I remember reading. Little has changed since:
http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=2373
Look, I've no interest in getting into a peeing contest with a load of irate, overcharging Southern dentists. You'll seek to defend your prices no matter what, and that's up to you.
But like the supermarkets, you'll see people travel to get as good or better work done elsewhere for a fraction of the price, and eventually some of you will go bust.
In fact, this is clearly happening already as the booming trade of Southern patients heading North and the many websites advertising dental treatment in Hungary etc to Irish patients attest.

davo10

You are quite right, we are subject to market forces like any other business. But your assumption that the higher prices down here means higher profit is predicated on the assumption that operating and living costs are the same. They are not, just like they are not for any other business. If you are self employed you know that the cost of operating your business is higher here, if you are employed, your job too could be at risk because of the same cost difference.

As for holding this article up as evidence to support your argument that we rip off patients, read again about how and when the survey was conducted. This time last year it would have cost you more (taking into account travel costs) to have your daughters treatment in the North and they would have made substantially more profit, so by your rationale the dentists in the North would have been ripping you off. What has changed?, the exchange rate. The fixed costs of dental clinics do not change with the economic climate. practices are bought with commercial loans so do not decrease along the lines of home mortgages, equipment is bought on leasing contracts where rates are set at time of purchase, we cannot trim staff as this will impact on the service provided to patients, vat rates have increased and on and on.

Don't be silly enough to think that anything near what you pay is secured profit, dentistry is a very costly business.

You neglected to answer my question on whether you would be willing to take a wage cut to match wage paid to someone doing same job in North/Hungary etc. Perhaps you would post your profession so a comparison of pay scales for your job can be posted.

Cavehill Red

Like I said, I couldn't care less for a peeing contest with overcharging Southern dentists trying to defend the indefensible.
I voted with my feet (or teeth) on the issue already.
The OP asked for a recommendation for a dentist in the North, not a load of oul crabbing from Southern dentists.
Obviously you lads don't like living in a global economy. After all, the export market in dental patients only came about after the Competition Authority investigated your industry for cartel practices.
But I'm not in the mood to entertain your moaning about patients taking the Minister for Health's advice and shopping around.
I came to offer the OP an answer to her question and appear to be the only one on this thread with an interest in doing so.

davo10

Easy tiger, you stated your belief that we are "rip off merchants", I'm merely responding to that aspect of YOUR post, you recommended a clinic then made this comment, this is a discussion forum open to all, if you post, we are not all obliged to agree with you no more than readers are obliged to agree with me. We discuss the issues, that's what boards.ie is about. Now you made a bold statement, stand by your convictions.

Did you know that if all items were the same price both North and south of the border this time last year and no one changed their prices, the North would be 30% cheaper today for everything. How is this a rip off when the price used to be the same and have not changed?

You seem to be avoiding the question of your job, c'mon stand up and take the hit, I have

Cavehill Red

How many times have the dental sector been cited by the Competition Authority? I count two reports into the sector and a victorious high court action into cartel behaviour, all in the past few years.
Hence, rip off merchants.
http://www.tca.ie/NewsPublications/NewsReleases/NewsReleases.aspx?selected_item=43
http://www.tca.ie/NewsPublications/NewsReleases/NewsReleases.aspx?selected_item=22
You've no right to know my profession. It is entirely irrelevant to any debate.
Suffice it that like many in the private sector, I have been forced to take a pay cut to sustain my job in the past year, and that pay cut was 25%.
That's the global economy for ya. I took the hit already. When will you?

davo10

The first report from CA came on foot of a complaint by an american dental insurance company called DeCare. They do not pay dentists, they reimburse patients so have no bearing on the cost of dental services. This report relates to competition in the INSURANCE market. Any one who has tried to claim from DeCare for crowns/bridges etc can tell you about the difficulties with this insurance product. In short this cannot be used as an example of "rip off" as it does not effect the price paid for treatment only the amount that can be reclaimed by patients.

The second report does not refer in any way to price fixing/ripping off people. It points out problems with the 1985 Dentists Act which prevents dentists from advertising etc. It was broadly welcomed by the dental profession and many feel it did not go far enough to allow us to compete with our Northern colleagues.

In am not interested per say with your profession, only for the purposes of pay comparison. I'm sorry you took a 25% pay cut, perhaps that should have been reported to your union it seems excessive. But you may still be paid more than someone doing the same job in the North and if they also took a pay cut, you see my point.

As for Global economy, if you have two different economies with different cost bases and different currencies which are subject to change, you will have a disparity in prices, not just for dentistry but for everything. There is not one thing that you can buy in Ireland that cannot be bought cheaper somewhere else. That is ecomomics, all items will not be the same price everywhere in the world.

As for people "voting with their feet", this is not occuring just in the dental sector, people are travelling North and abroad for everything now, travel is easy, there is a common market in Europe, again this is global economics as it was invisaged when the EC was established. But remember you may have had to take a pay cut because the product your company makes is now substantially cheaper to make and buy in other countries. We are all part of the same problem.

You write about global economics, does it make fiscal sense to provide a service at a loss just so as price parity is reached with the North, then I definetely would go out of business.

To end, if the costs of living/working were the same here as in the North and I could achieve the same profit as my counterparts there, I would have no problem dropping prices to parity but until that day arrives I will have to accept that better value can be had in other countries. You may have to come to the same realisation about your job pretty soon.

Cavehill Red

I'll let those interested read the reports for themselves. They all relate to cartel practices in the dental sector in the Republic.
I note you didn't refer to the High Court action taken by the CA either.
Long before the current price disparity north and south there was a major disparity in the cost of dentistry. The IDA used to waffle ominously about lower standards elsewhere and so on, until it was pointed out to them that standards in the North are as high or higher.
They still mutter about dentistry further afield, though. With little or no supporting evidence, needless to say, especially in relation to the Hungarians.
I appreciate we're all in a global downturn, and the silly rip off Republic prices will now have to go at long last from all areas of the economy.
Thankfully my workplace was pro-active and made the changes needed early in order to secure our jobs. I'm in a union and saw the union make a mess in rival firms, where jobs have now been lost in a big way. I'm not happy to take a big hit like I did, but I'd lay odds I'm happier than those elsewhere who are now on the dole.
It seems to me that there will always be work for Irish dentists, at the level of emergency work, check ups, work underwritten by the health service and so on.
But until there is a much smaller disparity than currently exists - and has existed for years and years as I previously demonstrated - people who need more expensive work done are going to cross the border or head abroad for a better deal and fair play to them.
They're only doing what the Health minister told them to do.

Phil RevaHealth

Interesting posts and points from you both Cavehill Red and davo10.

FYI Cavehill Red, the Dental Council of Ireland published new guidelines regarding advertising prices etc a few months ago, after the CA report came out. Having read them they certainly go in the right direction in terms of allowing dentists in the republic to freely publish guide prices for treatments and services. You can download them here.

Ultimately there is a price disparity at the moment between the north and the south, one that's been made much worse by the fluctuations of the Euro/Sterling exchange rate. There is a lot of talk at the moment that the Euro is overvalued though, so I wouldn't expect that to last forever.

We published figures today that show an increase in interest in dental treatment in the north of nearly 75% comparing February with January, but with rents and wages and other overheads on their way down in the republic there will (I expect) be downward pressure on prices across the board in the republic, including dentistry, and if sterling gets stronger again we should see cross border prices getting much closer again.

By the by, there is only a small minority of people using our site that look for dentists in the north, about 1/20th of the number who contact dentists in the republic, and that is after the increase last month.

Loads more I could say but I don't want to go too far off topic.

I relation to the original poster, there have been lots of recommendations for dentists in the north in previous posts on this board so you should do a quick search. In the current market though you may well get a good price if you call around a few places in the republic too. I don't know if they're allowed to, but maybe some of the dentists here could message you directly?

Cavehill Red

Phil RevaHealth wrote: »

I don't know if they're allowed to, but maybe some of the dentists here could message you directly?

Dude, you're posting on behalf of the Dental Council and you DON'T KNOW if dentists can drum up trade by cold-contacting potential customers?
Let me enlighten you - no, they can't.
And I'm somewhat concerned because anyone receiving such a contact from a dentist would be supposed to report that breach to YOU at the Dental Council for investigation!
What a country we live in.

Phil RevaHealth

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Dude, you're posting on behalf of the Dental Council ...

Cavehill Red,

You're very much mistaken if you think I'm working for or represent the Dental Council in any way. All I was saying was that the Dental Council did react to the CA report.

Just to be clear, I work at RevaHealth.com.

spykid1

hi

Can any one tell me what kind of gaurantee dentists up the north give

Cavehill Red

Phil RevaHealth wrote: »

Cavehill Red,

You're very much mistaken if you think I'm working for or represent the Dental Council in any way. All I was saying was that the Dental Council did react to the CA report.

Just to be clear, I work at RevaHealth.com.

My mistake. I misread you. When you wrote:

Phil RevaHealth wrote:

We published figures today that show an increase in interest in dental treatment in the north of nearly 75% comparing February with January ...

I thought you were referring to the Dental Council as you'd already linked to them in the same post. Sorry about that.
I'd have guessed the interest in Northern dentists might have dropped in the New Year, following the change in medical tax allowances in the last budget. But it seems that it might be having the opposite effect?

aare

Just a small comment.

I have had a huge amount of dental work in the north, from a super dentist, who worked in the south for years.

It cost less than a third of what it would here, and the quality of the work is only staggering.

I have another super dentist in the south, that I go to for emergencies, who comes from a few miles away from the dental surgery in the north and who is honest enough to admit that she only works here because the money is way better (and why shouldn't she?).

I honestly cannot explain why that difference needs to exist.

davo10

Hi aare,

The dentist down here is an "associate" in the practice. Associate dentists here are generally paid 50% of their gross earnings in the practice. They share the lab costs with the principle but are not responcible for any other expenses. The principle/owner pays all costs out of their 50% including the associates' nurse's wages,rent,insurance,utilities,admisistration costs, materials,equipment leases etc so it is very good for associate but not profitable for the owner unless fees are appropriate, ie after paying all costs the owner can actually make a loss on an associate dentists earnings. In the North associates are typically paid 40-45% of gross and used to be responcible for doing the NHS work a pratice neede to do to avail of Government grants and capitation/continuing care payments. (I used to work in the North so know a bit about this). The question you must consider is, if profits are supposed to be so good here, why have no Northern practices ever opened clinics in the South?, you would think that they would have an even greater market share if they did. Answer is, they would have to charge higher fees, pay assciates more, have higher costs etc which would defeat the purpose.

The next time you are in a Northern clinic ask the dentist why they don't open a practice in the South?

aare

Davo,

I am not knocking either of my dentists for working as they do. (My northern Dentist is also an associate and works in the north for reasons that are not financial).

I don't blame anyone for doing the best they can for themselves and their families...I also understand about NHS subsidies and Southern Health Boards that can get very unrelaible around invoices.

But the fact remains that if I could not have got work done in the North for a third of the price I would pay here I could not even have a dream where I could afford to have the work done at all.

I have to ask, that being the case for so many people, what would you have us do? Wear dentures to support southern dentists?

davo10

Aare,

I understand completely the reasons why people seek treatment in the North and further afield, right now particularly with the exchange rate there is outstanding value to be had not just in dentistry but in all purchases. My practice provides implants/veneers etc and because we are not located in Dublin where running costs are higher, in as much as possible we compete with the North but we cannot provide it at the same price. My gripe is not with people like yourself who recognise the obvious value and avail of it by travelling out of the South for their treatment, it is with people like Cavehill red who are incapable of understanding that the difference in the costs of treatment is in no small part explained by the 36% alteration in exchange rates in the last 8 months (£3000 = € 4761 in July '08), he thinks the difference in prices means huge profits here. Over the coming months exchange rates may change and in the long term England may join the Euro, it will then be very interesting to see if the costs of goods and services get closer.

Alan1988

Nope dont go up north, spend your money here in the south. We need to stick together, now more than ever.

ownknee

Is there anyone in the south that will knock a person completely out for a tooth extraction & fillings to be done?
I'm not looking for a deal or a discount but I have an unnatural fear of the dentist & the smallest of fillings has me shaking & fainting, the shaking during the procedure & fainting after it.
This would make my life a lot easier & I'm a little bit peeved that my own dentist won't put me under general anesthetic when he can see I'm in obvious distress by the end of it.
My dentist reccommended that I listen to my mp3 player & I've tried that but it doesn't work. The anxiety starts the minute I've made an appointment.
My dentist is genuinely nice & tries to calm me but I just can't handle it.
I need to get a tooth out, fillings, teeth cleaning & I'd like to get my teeth whitened, so can I get knocked out & get the whole lot done in the one day????

aare

Davo,

I know that there really are some dentists who have tried their level best to offer the best possible value in the south...and that is brilliant...and the gap will narrow to the point where the difference is small enough to be worth it for a dentist you particularly relate to, convenience in terms of distance and/or availability of appointments (Dentists in the north can't really afford to take time, or offer full emergency treament, sometimes "same day" as many southern dentists do).

Perhaps the worst part of the situation here is the steadfast refusal of Governments and Health boards to acknowledge prophylactic treatment as an option...even for children. So that you can't really get any kind of subsidy or assistance until it is really too far gone, and a lot more expensive.

When people berate southern dentists, the kind of prices they are talking about may even come as a bit of a surprise to yourself.

For example €100 to re-cement a front crown in Dublin city center (in circumstances where there was absolutely no need to investigate - long story...the STANDARD price is €60...the Northern price is £10...I can't explain that any way I look at it...all I can say is "nice work if you can get it" as did a couple of dentists I mentioned it to!)...and as much as €1500 each, for standard porcelain crowns in a rural area with very few dentists (and a lot of people going to Bangkok or Belgrade in response, I might add!)...

ownknee

Can someone please give me the name of a dentist north or south that will put me under general anesthetic for tooth extraction & fillings?
I would prefer someone in the south, regardless of price.
Seriously guys, I know there is a debate going on here about price etc... but I just want a name or number of someone who will get the job done without me being awake for it.
The roots of my teeth are very deep & given my phobia of the dentist I honestly don't think I would be able to be conscious for it.
For my benefit & the dentist's it would be the best option because the last filling I got I was lucky I didn't end up with the drill embedded in my jaw because on the chair I jumped up, hit it away & was lucky I didn't cause any damage.

davo10

Guys, there used to be a dental clinic in Dublin run by the Cahill brothers who offerred GA dentistry, not sure if they still do. GA dentistry is not common due to risks, prohibitive insurance and indemnity costs and the need for an anaesthtist/some one with A&E experience needs to be present. An example of the problems faced is the recent case of Colin Howell in the North who has been charged with sexually assaulting patients while under GA.

Aare, I absolutely agree 100% with everything in your post, the prices are high no doubt about that ( I charge €40 for a recement if patient walks in off the street and does not take up a whole appointment but it is more if I have to place a post or pins).

You show wisdom in your understanding of the problems we face with children who are supposed to be under the care of the HSE. When the dentists visit the schools they identify cavities but do not treat them (lack of resources, not HSE dentists's fault, it's policy). When i worked in the North this was called "supervised neglect" (the NHS would not pay for fillings on childrens teeth). The problem now of course is that if teeth decay and are lost early, the erupting adult teeth shift position which can lead to crowding and the kids end up back at the HSE clinic a few years later needing braces.

aare

davo10 wrote: »

Guys, there used to be a dental clinic in Dublin run by the Cahill brothers who offerred GA dentistry, not sure if they still do. GA dentistry is not common due to risks, prohibitive insurance and indemnity costs and the need for an anaesthtist/some one with A&E experience needs to be present. An example of the problems faced is the recent case of Colin Howell in the North who has been charged with sexually assaulting patients while under GA.

Wot he said ...and also, would you consider posting a seperate thread? So you get more replies?

I know there are a lot of dentists, north and south who specialise in dental anxiety, which has become a branch of psychology all of it's own these days. If money is no object you should really be able to find a dentist prepared to discuss your needs and your options with you?

davo10 wrote: »

Aare, I absolutely agree 100% with everything in your post, the prices are high no doubt about that ( I charge €40 for a recement if patient walks in off the street and does not take up a whole appointment but it is more if I have to place a post or pins).

That actually IS the cheapest I have heard of in the south, so good on you...I do realise the cement is NOT cheap stuff...

davo10 wrote: »

You show wisdom in your understanding of the problems we face with children who are supposed to be under the care of the HSE. When the dentists visit the schools they identify cavities but do not treat them (lack of resources, not HSE dentists's fault, it's policy). When i worked in the North this was called "supervised neglect" (the NHS would not pay for fillings on childrens teeth). The problem now of course is that if teeth decay and are lost early, the erupting adult teeth shift position which can lead to crowding and the kids end up back at the HSE clinic a few years later needing braces.

It is a crazy situation...and they would be very, VERY lucky to get braces from the HSE as far as I can see.

Dentists are trained to aim to optimise dental health for life (and the technology has advanced to the stage where dentures should be very, very rare) but as things are here in the south, that just isn't a realistic aspiration for most ordinary people, not to mention being extremelly frustrating for dentists.

deelite

I would like to ask either a dentist or somebody in the know the following why is there such a big difference in these prices over 3500 in Dublin compared to 1600 in the north all prices are in Euro - I just don't get the big price difference.

In Dublin the consultation is 100 and X ray is 240 (Belfast both are free) Braces in Dublin 2,500plus 70 euro (average) every 6 weeks to have the braces tightened whereas in Belfast the cost of the braces including xrays, consultation, fitting of braces and tightening is 1,600 euro.

davo10

€ 1600 = £ 1400 today, 1 year ago £ 1400 = €2200.
it doesnt take a mathematician to figure out that free consult,x-rays and adjustments are going to make a difference in costs, this is an offer to get you in the door, unfortunately bank managers don't except goodwill when it comes to paying mortgages. By the way, by the time you visit 10 times, you will probably have lost considerably more in wages/holiday time/travelling expenses.

deelite

davo10 wrote: »

€ 1600 = £ 1400 today, 1 year ago £ 1400 = €2200.
it doesnt take a mathematician to figure out that free consult,x-rays and adjustments are going to make a difference in costs, this is an offer to get you in the door, unfortunately bank managers don't except goodwill when it comes to paying mortgages. By the way, by the time you visit 10 times, you will probably have lost considerably more in wages/holiday time/travelling expenses.

I have had my braces done up in Belfast and whilst I mainly agree with you about the travelling time - (I have also hit the shops on the way back - more savings) I will be travelling back again to have fillings done. The main reason for this is I have received excellent care and customer service from the dental practice in Belfast - I don't think you can put a price on that. Another reason for going up to Belfast for me was I was quoted a "fixed price" which wasn't going to change.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Cost is not the most important thing guys....its the experience and qualifications of the person doing the treatment. Does anyone give a damn about that these days

I think its interesting in the current times that the general public now have the same problem as southern dentists. Your boss, in the company you work for, can move your jobs out of this country and reduce costs/increase profits. Your company is not as cost effective as it would be in eastern europe or the UK doing exactly the same work. No matter how good your work is, all the boss is thinking is the bottom line. Yeah he will let you toil at the low value stuff, but any new investment he wants to send abroad where it is cheaper.

So it suits you to buy dental work and shopping abroad, but will it suit you as well when your job is lost and given to a worker in Poland. I appreciate that time are tough, but if you send all your sheckles out of the country your own job will not be long behind them.

Expect as sterling strengthens against the euro later in the year, that prices will maybe even start to tip to the south.

Oh the circle of life...cruel

minz

I had to go to a dentist for specialist treatment nearly 2yrs ago for periodontic (however u spell it) treatment in southside dublin. After the first treatment (to me it seemed like a cleaning session) he charged €450 for < 1 hrs work, he asked me to come back so he could see how it was getting on and then charged me €90 and again told me to come back for another session! I told him to F off and reported him to the Dental council. The problem I went in with is exactly the same one I still have These guys prey on your situation so beware of the scroungers. As for the prices, what a joke RIP OFF BANKERS, who are they trying to kid.

minz

Davo10 where are the price lists?? WHERE ARE THEY???

Mountjoy Mugger

Thread is two years old.

minz

So are there no price lists? I never see one in any of the dentists I had to visit. But I do notice that Davo10 was online but now has gone offline. Speaks for itself really.
Thanks fro your reply.

ballsymchugh

minz wrote: »

Davo10 where are the price lists?? WHERE ARE THEY???

are you butter's father??

minz

Probably a joke there somewhere??

Oral Surgeon

2 things;
There are no specialists in cavehill, the person with the longest title is the hygienist...!!!!
Why is your user name cavehill and you are recommending cavehill clinic even though you don't live in the area? Am I missing something??

davo10

minz wrote: »

So are there no price lists? I never see one in any of the dentists I had to visit. But I do notice that Davo10 was online but now has gone offline. Speaks for itself really.
Thanks fro your reply.

Hi Minz, as of June 1st all dentists are required to display their prices in their surgeries, if they do not you can contact the Dental Council. I have had my prices on display in my clinic, 2 large framed price lists on the walls in the downstairs waiting room, 1 large framed price list on the table in the upstairs waiting room, 1 large framed price list on the wall beside reception, I placed the prices of a well known clinic in the North beside mine for comparison, a full price list and explanations of each treatment with illustrations on my website FOR THE LAST 4 YEARS so I'm not sure what your gripe is with me in particular.

If you were referred to a Periodontist you have advanced periodontal disease and may be at risk in the long term of losing teeth. It's your decision to have treatment or not but don't winge if this happens. I have referred patients to Periodontists in Belfast (I'm happy to PM the Periodontists names to you) and guess what, they were the same price as the ones in Dublin, they are specialists and therefore command a higher fee.

Of course you still have the same problem, you didnt have it treated in the first place, how would it improve if the cause is still there. Simples.

By the way Minz, at this stage your dentist will have recieved a letter from the Periodontist informing him that you were informed of the diagnosis, advised of treatment necessary and rejected treatment. If you lose teeth in the future and claim that it was due to negligence by your dentist, this information will be produced to counter your claim, so your dentist and periodontist will be saying F**K you, we told you this would happen, what goes around comes around.

minz

davo10 "as of June 1st all dentists are required to display their prices in their surgeries" thats this year i take it. Ye had to be forced to display prices; rather than numb up the patient and then inform them of it! Sounds about right. But you're right I was at the dentist last evening and I saw for the first time a price list - I took one as proof and may frame it! Congratulations on putting your prices up 4 yrs ago. Why not from the begining? And I have no particular gripe with yourself but it galls me that people in a vunerable state are taken for a ride and nearly always have to accept it to rid themselves of the problem onhand.
"you didnt have it treated in the first place" just what did I pay that joker €450 for then, a chat after the numbing???? A further €90 was requested to look in my mouth to see how it was going - no treatment! Are you suggesting I keep going to this person and keep forking out whatever figure comes into his head? So he writes to my dentist and "advised of treatment necessary " but not myself, the Fing patient?? I'm not sure about ye lot but I work hard for my money and do not feel like throwing it around like a drunk gambler in vagas to feed someones ego.
Finally after being referred by my dentist to that "specialist" he is no longer my dentist!

Big_G

Necro post, thread closed. Go and have a whinge elsewhere.