Ticket for breaking 'red' light

mathie · 17-03-2009 9:37am #1

Hi
I got a ticket and two points last night for breaking a 'red' light.
It was amber when I went through it and my wife and a friend who were in the car all agree.
When pulled over the garda says 'What do you do at a red light?'
I said 'Stop. But that was an amber light.'
He said 'You stop at an amber light too.'
I said 'Yes if it's safe to do so and it wasn't.'

He seemed a little confused by this and just went on to give the usual about 2 points and a fine.

Now what can I do about this?
Accept his word over three people?
What are the chances of appealling it?
And how is that done?

Thanks
M

Berty · 17-03-2009 9:45am

Call to the station in your best clothes(not tracksuit and baseball cap) and explain that you were adhering to the rules of the road and the points and fine are not relevant in this situation.

I would even take it as far as court if I got not satisfaction. I fight for my rights when it is a principle.

SoupyNorman · 17-03-2009 9:52am

Fine line really

"An amber light means that you must not go beyond the stop line or, if there is no stop line, beyond the light. However, you may go on if you are so close to the line or the light when the amber light first appears that stopping would be dangerous."

It's a risk to contest it as you'll receive a worse penalty if you lost any appeal and there is no way to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you were in the right. It will be your word against the Guard.

cnocbui · 17-03-2009 10:06am

Pay up and move on. Your word against the guards. If it went to court you would end up paying substantially more.

stealthyspeeder · 17-03-2009 10:13am

If you feel it wasnt safe to stop, dont just roll over and accept the points. It wont just be your word against the guards as you have witnesses who will back you up.

If guards go around giving out points and fines where they are not deserved, it will lead to a culture of them abusing their power as they will be unchallenged in their decisions. In the long run, these sorts of complaints by the public will breed a better service from the guards.

Sleipnir · 17-03-2009 10:13am

cnocbui wrote: »

Pay up and move on. Your word against the guards. If it went to court you would end up paying substantially more.

+1

veritable · 17-03-2009 10:24am

appeal it. talk to a solicitor and see what his opinion is.

the guards go round like they are judge jury and executioner. they know most people won't appeal.

as a matter of principle you have to stand up for yourself. plus if you have witnesses all the better

good luck

Saruman · 17-03-2009 10:27am

Go back to the place it happened and see if there are any cctv or traffic cameras to back up your claim.

david · 17-03-2009 10:57am

I got this offense too. If you can prove that there was a car close behind (which there more than likely was)whilst the light went amber it will get thrown out in court.

"Unsafe to stop" = passed the light/white line on amber with a car an your tail

mumblin deaf ro · 17-03-2009 11:01am

mathie wrote: »

Hi
I got a ticket and two points last night for breaking a 'red' light.
It was amber when I went through it and my wife and a friend who were in the car all agree.
When pulled over the garda says 'What do you do at a red light?'
I said 'Stop. But that was an amber light.'
He said 'You stop at an amber light too.'
I said 'Yes if it's safe to do so and it wasn't.'

He seemed a little confused by this and just went on to give the usual about 2 points and a fine.

Now what can I do about this?
Accept his word over three people?
What are the chances of appealling it?
And how is that done?

Thanks
M

Was there a car close behind you when you went through the lights? If not, it may be hard to convince them that it was too danerous to stop.

mathie · 17-03-2009 12:17pm

Hi guys
Thanks for the replies.
Much appreciated.

There was a car behind ... the police car!

woodseb · 17-03-2009 12:26pm

mathie wrote: »

Hi guys
Thanks for the replies.
Much appreciated.

There was a car behind ... the police car!

did he go through the red light too to pull you over?

jor el · 17-03-2009 12:40pm

I take it that this was an unmarked squad car then? Was he very close behind? Before taking it to court, make sure your witnesses are reliable and believable.

Your best bet might be to go to the station, and ask to speak to the superintendent, before you question it in court. Have your witnesses put their opinions in writing, and bring this with you.

ninty9er · 17-03-2009 12:42pm

woodseb wrote: »

did he go through the red light too to pull you over?

Doesn't matter.

I'd look for cctv to back up your claim, but I have no problem in principle with people being ticketed for running amber or red lights.

jhegarty · 17-03-2009 12:49pm

ninty9er wrote: »

but I have no problem in principle with people being ticketed for running amber or red lights.

We do we have amber lights then ?

ninty9er · 17-03-2009 12:55pm

jhegarty wrote: »

We do we have amber lights then ?

To signal people to stop:rolleyes:

:eek:

jhegarty · 17-03-2009 12:58pm

ninty9er wrote: »

To signal people to stop:rolleyes::eek:

That's what the red light does.

Everyone is telling the op they should not have crossed the amber light , but if he was too close to stop in time then he did the correct thing in continuing.

dingding · 17-03-2009 1:01pm

Would the Garda Car have being recording video that would have showen:-

1) you broke the amber light and would have had sufficient time to stop

2) they were so close behind you that you could not stop without fear of them running into you.

Can yor request to see the cars footage

david · 17-03-2009 1:03pm

dingding wrote: »

Would the Garda Car have being recording video that would have showen:-

1) you broke the amber light and would have had sufficient time to stop

2) they were so close behind you that you could not stop without fear of them running into you.

Can yor request to see the cars footage

Didn't think AGS had the black box recorders yet? PSNI do AFAIK

dingding · 17-03-2009 1:06pm

Do many of the traffic cars not record video footage on an ongoing basis, as per the various sky traffic cops programmes.

ninty9er · 17-03-2009 1:08pm

jhegarty wrote: »

That's what the red light does.

Everyone is telling the op they should not have crossed the amber light , but if he was too close to stop in time then he did the correct thing in continuing.

This is what the Garda is disputing. Also IIRC the offence is failing to obey a traffic signal, there is no such offence as "running a red light".

Red lights tell us not to proceed, amber ones tell us to stop!

ninty9er · 17-03-2009 1:11pm

dingding wrote: »

Do many of the traffic cars not record video footage on an ongoing basis, as per the various sky traffic cops programmes.

Only recently in Ireland and not in all cars.

cyclopath2001 · 17-03-2009 5:30pm

jhegarty wrote: »

but if he was too close to stop in time then he did the correct thing in continuing.

That's the question, was he?

ArphaRima · 17-03-2009 5:37pm

If the garda car was directly behind you, and if in your opinion it was "unsafe to do so" in relation to stopping, then that should the end of it. However it isnt. The garda has charged you, and I'm not sure you can successfully fight it.
I am all up for principle. But in this case you will need to prove your view. Not easy imho. Sincerely, good luck.

cyclopath2001 · 17-03-2009 5:45pm

fluffer wrote: »

If the garda car was directly behind you, and if in your opinion it was "unsafe to do so" in relation to stopping, then that should the end of it.

The Gardai are well-trained drivers and would normally be expected to allow an appropriate stopping distance, especially when the possibility of a law-abiding driver a the car in front stopping on amber is likely. The balance of probability in the mind of a judge will be that the driver failed to stop on amber and that there was no reason absolving him for the failure.

The law is to stop on amber or be ready to justify with evidence why not.

Mr. Presentable · 17-03-2009 5:45pm

mathie wrote: »

Hi
I said 'Yes if it's safe to do so and it wasn't.'

M

Actually it's "unless it is unsafe to stop". The difference is subtle but important.

ArphaRima · 17-03-2009 5:55pm

The Gardai are well-trained drivers and would normally be expected to allow an appropriate stopping distance, especially when the possibility of a law-abiding driver a the car in front stopping on amber is likely.

I am also a well trained driver. I hold a licence to prove it. I dont like this idea that the garda car couldnt possibly have been near him because they are gardai.

The only time I have ever been pulled over by Gardai, they drive around 5-10 feet behind my car at 50mph for around 2 miles before pulling me over. It forced me through roundabouts at inappropriate speeds. I hadn't committed any offence, but was travelling through tallaght after a cinema trip with my mates in the back so looked dodgy to them I guess.
However it remains the worst case of tailgating I have ever experienced. By "well-trained" drivers no less!

mickdw · 17-03-2009 5:58pm

If you believe that you went a bit late on the light (like we all do) the odd time, then take the fine but if it was genuinely a case of the garda being a smart arse, you should fight it all the way.
I would seek any possible camera footage available. It would really be great to get hard evidence that you acted properly.

Seth Brundle · 17-03-2009 10:50pm

ninty9er wrote: »

This is what the Garda is disputing. Also IIRC the offence is failing to obey a traffic signal, there is no such offence as "running a red light".

Red lights tell us not to proceed, amber ones tell us to stop!

and it may be worth noting that Green means go if it is safe to do so! Using these 'definitions', it would be difficult to justify passing an amber never mind a red!

cul-2008 · 18-03-2009 11:03am

Nowadays, amber means "accelerate like f*ck so you'll get through the lights before they turn red".

Red on the other hand means "hmm, will I stop or keep going? ah feck it, it just turned red, might as well go for it!"

Saw 4 people break a red light in a row this morning - forcing the lollipop lady to make a dive for the footpath! :rolleyes:

Owen · 18-03-2009 11:24am

I got done for this before the points came in. Little bandygarda asked me "Are you an amber-gambler?", which was hard enough to keep a straight face for. I explained the rules of the road to her, but because she's a Gard and knew everything, she wrote the ticket anyway. I visited the station a few days later, and explained my situation to the Super there who agreed with me, and quashed the fine.

Speak to a solicitor OP, there's little point in getting advice here as everyone will have a varying opinion and it's difficult to separate wheat from chaff in a forum environment.

Ticket for breaking 'red' light

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