Arguing your way out of a fine

A_SN

I received a 150 euros littering fine for allegedly leaving an untagged trash bag on the curb, which they traced back to me by finding a bank statement belonging to me inside the bag.

That's all fine and dandy, except I didn't do it. See in my building we don't have any mailboxes, all mail is just stacked on a common shelf, and I know some phishy stuff goes on with my mail, like this time I had this letter from my bank opened, obviously read, then the address on the letter was scribbled over until it was unreadable and it was hidden under the stack of unclaimed mail. And I don't know what goes on with my neighbours either cause I've seen many of them get the same fine letters from the Dublin City Council.. So I guess someone must have taken a bank statement of mine from the mail, what for I don't know, and ultimately disposed of it. Therefore my bank receipt in the trash doesn't directly prove I placed it there, hence if my legal drama watching taught me anything, it's "circumstancial at best".

Anyways I mailed the office who emitted the fine to tell them this, but now they just sent me a letter acknowledging they received my appeal, but they disregard it, stating that what they found in my trash (the bank statement) was "evidence which links to [me]", failing to recognize that while it "links" to me it utterly fails to prove that I'm the culprit, considered it would be just as simple for me to take some random mail from my neighbours and dump it in untagged trash bags.

So at this point, is there anything I can do to argue my case, which I believe should be in my right considered they failed to prove without a doubt that I was the offender, or should I just pay before the indicated delay before "legal proceedings are initiated"? Also, has anyone succesfully (or unsuccesfully) managed to get rid of a fine by arguing it?

FruitLover

Queries involving 'mail' in the 'trash' might get a better response here.

A_SN

FruitLover wrote: »

Queries involving 'mail' in the 'trash' might get a better response here.

I'm French, sorry if my language is slightly too 'international' for your tastes ;-)

Victor

As I understand it, the rules of evidence were altered in litter cases - it is for the accused to prove their innocence, not for the council to prove guilt.

Demand a proper letter box from your landlord.

A_SN

Victor wrote: »

As I understand it, the rules of evidence were altered in litter cases - it is for the accused to prove their innocence, not for the council to prove guilt.

Demand a proper letter box from your landlord.

Interesting, thanks. Well I guess I can't strictly prove that it wasn't me.. I mean I don't see how I could do that.. damnit.

Victor

Proof is not 100%. It merely means your evidence is more than their evidence.

A_SN

Victor wrote: »

Proof is not 100%. It merely means your evidence is more than their evidence.

Well, the best I could come up with would be a picture of the shelf on which we get our mail and say "it might have been stolen!". Well that's already what I tried minus the actual photograph...

time lord

This is my advice if you know in your heart it wasn't you. When you're mail was tampered with before did you happen to complain to the management co./landlord. If you did, a letter from them backing up your previous complaint would be great.
Be prepared to go to the local district court on the day the local authority summones' you. You do not need a solicitor for this. There is no prison sentence riding on this and its not like points on your licence where if you loose the penalty will be increased. Take a copy of your appeal. Appeal again outlining as per previous complaints about the mail boxes or lack of in the building. Bring another resident not related to you. They can back up your mailing problem.The judge will guide you in your case and if you stick to your guns I would reckon you have a 90+ chance of winning.
If you are being wronged you should definately fight it further. You are in a strong position to prove reasonable doubt over the grounds for the fine.

Victor

Ask for your bank statement back.

A_SN

time lord : I see. I guess you're right and that would be the way to go, but that would be too long a shot. I never complained to my landlord, and he isn't the type who could be arsed to do anything he doesn't really have to. And I don't think any of my neighbours would do that out of kindness. So I just went and paid the fine.

Victor : hehe, they were kind enough to send a photocopy of it with their latest letter

the_syco

Pretty sure interfering with someone else's mail is a criminal offense.