Bad Service Advice / Rip Off Service

Seth Brundle

'Er indoors recently had her 206 serviced at a South Dublin Pug main dealer who shall remain nameless. I told her to tell them to call her should there be anything out of the ordinary need working on.
As it happened they did call her and the mechanic proceeded to tell her that the car required three tyres, front brake pads and a new exhaust. As I was beside her she decided to pass the phone over to me and the mechanic went through the list again.
I knew the tyres were low but there was still a bit of life left in them and I declined his ~€40 per tyre offer.
He explained to me that the front pads were very low and should be replaced. I asked how much (can't rightly remember how much) but I knew that I could do them myself much much cheaper so again I declined.
Then he explained that the exhaust was badly worn and leaking and he would prefer to replace the entire system from the manifold down. Now I know that she had a back box replaced a number of years ago and that the join with the new one was never perfect causing a small leak - I was just too lazy to fix it. I declined his ~€400 offer to replace the system, deciding to DIY with some exhaust cement.

Went out yesterday to replace the pads. Picked up a set of minitex pads locally for €30, brought the various tools out front and jacked her up. Now firstly, the pads on a 206 are a delight to work with - one bolt to remove and the caliper swings up - much easier than my car. Anyhow, WTF? The pads look like new. Took a good long hard look at them and they were perfect. Went over to the other side. The plastic cable tie over the wheel trim was still there so the wheel never came off during the service. Took a good long hard look at the caliper and there is no evidence that the mechanic replaced them without charging. The only thing that I can think of was that he was trying to rip us off.
Hang on. Maybe he said pads but meant shoes. Giving him the benefit of doubt, I jacked up the rear wheel (again cable tie intact). Took off the wheel and went to take off the drum. Bugger. There was no allen screw holding the drum on and no inspection hole at the back. Went inside and did a quick google. Apparently to check the shoes, the hub nut has to come off (and be replaced afterwards) before you can get the drum off. The dust cover was scratched, etc. but no evidence that it had been lifted. Checked the invoice for this on it (presumably they charge if they replace them!) and it wasn't on it. What was on it though was that the "front pads need replacing"!
F*****s

Right then. Lets have a look at this exhaust. Jacked up both wheels on the passenger side (with axle stands also!) and crawled in under and checked along the entire exhaust. No evidence of any damage apart from the joint with the backbox (small hole at joint about 3-5mm in diameter.
Turned on the engine and went along it again looking for air leaks and the hole found earlier was the only one. Let it cool down and then got out the exhaust cement (bought for under €5) I picked up earlier and applied it. 24 hours later and after a spirited drive its still perfect!

This dealer was looking for well over 500 euro to fix stuff that either did not need fixing or could be fixed for under five quid (assuming they had no exhaust cement).
Am I pissed off? Damn right.
I honestly don't believe that this was done in error. My gut feeling is that they saw a woman come in and felt that they could fleece her. I also don't believe that the mechanic decided to replace these for the fun of it.


I work near them and I may call in and discuss it with the service manager. I feel that I should write to someone but I reckon that it may be a policy within the dealership and that Pug Irl may not give a toss. I suppose its best to have it on record.
What do yis reckon?

Stevie Dakota

Killian, you think you know the answer, talk to the dealer in question, if you feel they are not being honest with you make as big a noise as possible about it. 'Mistakes' like this are unacceptable, you are savvy and know what to look for but 99% customers are not, that is a lot of customers that could have been ripped off by this dealer. I would go for the jugular!

rebel.ranter

I can understand the exhaust recommendation but you certainly have a point regarding the pads. Particularly when you say the cable tie wasn't disturbed.

245

Ah Pug dealers.....

They're the same lot that are creative with service intervals (greatly in their favour) in my experience.

Complain to the Pug dealer with a copy to Gowan. Most likely nothing will come of it but you'll have tried.

Seth Brundle

In fairness, her car has a service indicator so the dealer can't really be creative that way.

I spoke to the service manager just now (and I do understand that they have not seen the car) who will check the job card to see what info there is with regard to the pads. As for the exhaust, this would have been replaced as standard.

Darragh29

First of all, fair play to you for doing the legwork on this one OP. I said before on here that if the garage had a policy on transparency, that these kind of events would happen a lot less. If garages put up a policy in their reception areas saying that you are not only welcome but encouraged to ask to have these defects pointed out to you where this can be easily done, then go for it. Of course this creates workshop throughput issues, but with that in mind, here's a simple little thing that would hugely improve transparency without impacting workshop efficiency...

Everything single item that was advised to you on that jobcard as having to be replaced, could have been digitally photographed and e-mailed to you for your consideration, or digitally captured and kept on a laptop in the garage so when you approve the additional work off site, the original problems are still reviewable when you come to collect the car. OK, I accept that you could have been e-mailed images of the defects and you might not have known what you were looking at, but maybe you would have a partner (as is the case here), or a brother or a cousin or a housemate who would be able to understand the information and advise you accordingly.

It's 2009 and these guys are wandering around workshops with cardboard job cards and pencils, complaining that their industry is bamboolzed and nobody trusts them.

I can't for the life of me understand why the leadership isn't there to take up small innovative initiatives like this so that transparency is improved and the customer is brought back to a position where trust is possible.

smokingman

Had my car serviced two weeks ago (05 Accord) in a proper Honda dealership (I won't mention where) and they tried to get me to spend over a grand on new pads and wheels...they were worn but nowhere near bad.

I said no and then I got the thing back overfilled with oil by about a litre....in a turbo diesel...

Won't be going back there I tells ya...

245

kbannon wrote: »

In fairness, her car has a service indicator so the dealer can't really be creative that way.

My wife has had a 206 and now a 207 - every time it's serviced the little sticker that they put on the inside of the windscreen has a shorter than necessary service interval -in all cases shorter than the manufacturer's recommended interval. It's handwritten at the time of service so its a very convenient mistake.

Here's what the MD of Gowan Distributors is telling his dealerships to do:

David McConnell, managing director of Gowan Distributors stressed the importance of aftersales in keeping dealerships alive. The higher the percentage of service departments that can cover of the costs of running a dealership – known as service absorption – the greater margin there is for profit from retail.
“If all the overheads in a dealership are paid for by the service department, anything you make in new or used car sales or finance is profit on top of that. If you are covering all your costs on aftersales you will never go bust. We have put in a programme to make dealers more efficient in their workshops, to help them market aftersales and we now have service absorption of around 72 per cent.”


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2009/0128/1232923368589.html

EPM

That's a sickener. Fair enough about the exhaust as the cement is just a repair as opposed to a fix but the pads are ridiculous. Just think about all the people that this works on. Darragh29 has the right idea - confidence needs to be gained and the jokers mentioned above rooted out. There are some excelent garages out there but this carry on undermines any effort put in by them. Like said above, go for the jugular on this one;)

kravmaga

kbannon wrote: »

'Er indoors recently had her 206 serviced at a South Dublin Pug main dealer who shall remain nameless. I told her to tell them to call her should there be anything out of the ordinary need working on.
As it happened they did call her and the mechanic proceeded to tell her that the car required three tyres, front brake pads and a new exhaust. As I was beside her she decided to pass the phone over to me and the mechanic went through the list again.
I knew the tyres were low but there was still a bit of life left in them and I declined his ~€40 per tyre offer.
He explained to me that the front pads were very low and should be replaced. I asked how much (can't rightly remember how much) but I knew that I could do them myself much much cheaper so again I declined.
Then he explained that the exhaust was badly worn and leaking and he would prefer to replace the entire system from the manifold down. Now I know that she had a back box replaced a number of years ago and that the join with the new one was never perfect causing a small leak - I was just too lazy to fix it. I declined his ~€400 offer to replace the system, deciding to DIY with some exhaust cement.

Went out yesterday to replace the pads. Picked up a set of minitex pads locally for €30, brought the various tools out front and jacked her up. Now firstly, the pads on a 206 are a delight to work with - one bolt to remove and the caliper swings up - much easier than my car. Anyhow, WTF? The pads look like new. Took a good long hard look at them and they were perfect. Went over to the other side. The plastic cable tie over the wheel trim was still there so the wheel never came off during the service. Took a good long hard look at the caliper and there is no evidence that the mechanic replaced them without charging. The only thing that I can think of was that he was trying to rip us off.
Hang on. Maybe he said pads but meant shoes. Giving him the benefit of doubt, I jacked up the rear wheel (again cable tie intact). Took off the wheel and went to take off the drum. Bugger. There was no allen screw holding the drum on and no inspection hole at the back. Went inside and did a quick google. Apparently to check the shoes, the hub nut has to come off (and be replaced afterwards) before you can get the drum off. The dust cover was scratched, etc. but no evidence that it had been lifted. Checked the invoice for this on it (presumably they charge if they replace them!) and it wasn't on it. What was on it though was that the "front pads need replacing"!
F*****s

Right then. Lets have a look at this exhaust. Jacked up both wheels on the passenger side (with axle stands also!) and crawled in under and checked along the entire exhaust. No evidence of any damage apart from the joint with the backbox (small hole at joint about 3-5mm in diameter.
Turned on the engine and went along it again looking for air leaks and the hole found earlier was the only one. Let it cool down and then got out the exhaust cement (bought for under €5) I picked up earlier and applied it. 24 hours later and after a spirited drive its still perfect!

This dealer was looking for well over 500 euro to fix stuff that either did not need fixing or could be fixed for under five quid (assuming they had no exhaust cement).
Am I pissed off? Damn right.
I honestly don't believe that this was done in error. My gut feeling is that they saw a woman come in and felt that they could fleece her. I also don't believe that the mechanic decided to replace these for the fun of it.


I work near them and I may call in and discuss it with the service manager. I feel that I should write to someone but I reckon that it may be a policy within the dealership and that Pug Irl may not give a toss. I suppose its best to have it on record.
What do yis reckon?

The moral of the story here is your girlfriend should never use a main dealer for a car service.

I would never go to main dealer for service.

Well there is a programme on UTV called "Rogue Traders" where they record on camera traders/ contractors replacing items thatare in perfect working order just to create a large invoice for gullible white collar people.

EPM

blueeyedboy wrote: »

The moral of the story here is your girlfriend should never use a main dealer for a car service.

I would never go to main dealer for service.

Well there is a programme on UTV called "Rogue Traders" where they record on camera traders/ contractors replacing items thatare in perfect working order just to create a large invoice for gullible white collar people.

Not entirel true. This is why every dealer gets it rough when some are thoroughly professonal and honest (I'm in no way associated with the industry btw)

L1011

245 wrote: »

My wife has had a 206 and now a 207 - every time it's serviced the little sticker that they put on the inside of the windscreen has a shorter than necessary service interval -in all cases shorter than the manufacturer's recommended interval. It's handwritten at the time of service so its a very convenient mistake.

Since intervals started getting longer I've noticed most dealers are, ahem, 'creative' with when they advise when the next one should be. Questioned mine about it and they eventually came up 'oh, we wrote down the miles not the kilometres'. Still ended up out by about a thousand though!

Service indicator on the car itself just adds +20,000km to its warning when its reset anyway; so easier to go by that...

Bobo78

OP- How about if you name them and shame them?

Seth Brundle

I'll wait until the service manager rings me back (if he does) before I do anything else.

Esel

245 wrote: »

"The higher the percentage of service departments that can cover of the costs of running a dealership – known as service absorption – the greater margin there is for profit from retail."

Great - now we have Service Absorption twinned with Planned Obsolescence! :mad:

Swizz

Ha they tried to rip off the wrong person

Lucifer

blueeyedboy wrote: »

The moral of the story here is your girlfriend should never use a main dealer for a car service.

I would never go to main dealer for service.

Well there is a programme on UTV called "Rogue Traders" where they record on camera traders/ contractors replacing items thatare in perfect working order just to create a large invoice for gullible white collar people.

You need to remember that it is just as easy for this to happen in any size garage, be it the biggest main dealer to the smallest back street garage. While some main dealers may rip people off by replacing parts which are not required, its not fair to tar them all with the same brush. You need to choose a good garage rather than just "not a main dealer".

I am a mechanic in a large main dealer in dublin, and I can honestly say that we do not work like this. When I service a car, I will check the brakes and give an honest opinion of their condition. I would never tell someone they needed things that they didnt. My garage has a very good reputation and we would not risk that over something like this.

There are some bad garages out there, but I'm sure its the same in every trade, some good, some bad, the hard part is finding the good ones!

Seth Brundle

Update: I spoke to the service manager (he was to ring me back and never did, so I phoned again).
Anyhow, he wasn't able to explain or excuse the brake pads. I can understand this though. Either he accepts that they a mistake was made when it comes to brakes or he accepts the percieved view that there was a rip off.

Anyhow, all he could do was promise that if she were to return there for a service, to talk to him first and he would look after us. I can't see her going back there though!

Still, fair play to Leixlip Motor Factors for taking back the pads without quibbling (I had chanced my arm at a credit note but they were happy to give cash!)

Darragh29

kbannon wrote: »

Update: I spoke to the service manager (he was to ring me back and never did, so I phoned again).
Anyhow, he wasn't able to explain or excuse the brake pads. I can understand this though. Either he accepts that they a mistake was made when it comes to brakes or he accepts the percieved view that there was a rip off.

Anyhow, all he could do was promise that if she were to return there for a service, to talk to him first and he would look after us. I can't see her going back there though!

Still, fair play to Leixlip Motor Factors for taking back the pads without quibbling (I had chanced my arm at a credit note but they were happy to give cash!)

I often thought of doing an undercover documentary like the "House of Horrors" on ITV, for the motor industry in Ireland. Like sending a car with a simple problem, into a garage (say for example, just disconnect the lambda sensor block connector on a car like a Micra where you can see the lambda sensor cable and block connector immediately when you look into the engine, which would cause the engine light to come on). An easily resolvable issue, identify the connection problem, reconnect the conector, clear a fault code and test drive the car), and see what they come back to you with... "Listen Missus, we have to strip down the whole engine and it'll cost you about 1,500 Euro if we are lucky"...

I had thought of doing it as it would be a low cost and highly entertaining piece of TV viewing, but I'd be literally afraid to do it in this country in case I'd be found in a suitcase in the bottom of a canal somewhere...

Seth Brundle

I had thought of it before also.
I'd say that you would first need the backing of the distributors as otherwise RTE or whoever would possibly lose all motor related advertising and they therefore wouldn't air it. Thats why none of the Irish motoring press would dare slate a new car!

Fishtits

kb you've hit the nail on the head. We're too small a country to have objective hacks.

Our system of training mechanics has failed to keep up with technology in motor vehicles IMHO. The academic requirement for someone who can be trained to service & repair modern vehicles is way higher than the current entrance to an apprenticeship.

This is driven by the piss poor wages paid as per the SIMI scale.

Garages are in trouble with no sales, hence the screw tightening on the service side to produce revenue.

Banking sector ethics...

Darragh29

Fishtits wrote: »

kb you've hit the nail on the head. We're too small a country to have objective hacks.

Our system of training mechanics has failed to keep up with technology in motor vehicles IMHO. The academic requirement for someone who can be trained to service & repair modern vehicles is way higher than the current entrance to an apprenticeship.

This is driven by the piss poor wages paid as per the SIMI scale.

Garages are in trouble with no sales, hence the screw tightening on the service side to produce revenue.

Banking sector ethics...

+100. I've said it 100 times on here, we have a very serious leadership issue within the industry. Technology changes, instead of being embraced and used to improve customer service and standards within the industry are used as nothing other than a lever to prise more money out of the customer. There is no transparency whatsoever within the industry, look at all the improvements in IT technology in the last 10-15 years, especially with regard to internet technology, every other industry in Ireland from banking to tourism, has embraced this change and used it to improve the experience of the customer, every industry except the Irish motor industry that is.