What is 21st Century Irish Culture to you?

Rented Mule

First of all, let me start out by saying that this isn't meant to be a spiteful thread. It is an honest question.

As stated in many other threads (and in my profile), I am an American living in Ireland (Dublin to be more specific). I see/hear/read people complaining about American culture seeping into your daily Irish lives and it struck me. What is 21st Century Irish Culture ?

I walk down the streets on the northside of Dublin and see kids/adults walking around with foreign football team jerseys on. I get on the bus and see people wearing New York Yankees gear. On the southside of Dublin, I see all of the American clothing logos worn as some sort of status symbol.

The Celtic Tiger was brought about by foreign outsourcing to Ireland which as we all know, the greatest economic boom in this country's history. Ireland has been forever changed by these past 15-20 years and I wonder if a large part of it's identity has been lost along the way.

So my question to all of you is 'what is Irish Culture in the 21st Century to you?'.

TestTransmission

Getting pissed in the pub and then complaining about the price of drink

irish culture? there's not much left..

we go out and get hammered, we love our rugby team cause it's the only international team sport we excel at.. and if we visit home at the weekends, we have to goto half 12 mass.

and farmers driving diesel passats, nothing more irish than a red I passat.

Snowie

Really depends from person to prson, I would of thuaght!

greyed

Same as it always was, only its way harder to find now.

Dont underestimate the stupidity and impressionability of spoiled 15yr olds. In 10 years they'll probably all be wearing chinese labels.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Depedns on how you define culture. If you go by the way-of-life definition, then it used to be very selfish, intolerant, and money-and-drink-orientated, but I think that may change now the Tiger's dead.

galwayrush

The world is becoming more and more a global village. Very hard to define an 'Irish' culture anymore. Is it how others portrayed us in the past, drunken, fighting, or is it a land of saints and scholars, or is it now a country of corruption and cronyism. Even worse would be people thinking that Hollywood Oirish is what we are:eek:.

chin_grin

drink.
mouth off to guards.
disrespect your elders.
drinking in public places.
gun crime.
drug related killings.
talk like you need elocution lessons.
or talk with an American twang (even though you visited Disney Land once when you were ten......for a week).
Maudlin about them "good ol days" and just drink in to a stupor as you cannot get yourself or anyone else motivated long enough to do anything about it.

Oh and pyjamas as day-wear.

And 'brushed under the carpet' racism. Or what is depicted as racism and is actually our beliefs and ways being expressed countering a brutal and oppressive belief system that is currently taking over.

So all and all, happy days!

sillyputty

Irish culture unfortunately is being erased by a generation of young people becoming americanised by the movies and tv.

Other than that everyone now has a 'me first' mentality and is out for themselves.

Pepe LeFrits

Sweeping generalisations, if threads like these are anything to go by.

chin_grin

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Sweeping generalisations, if threads like these are anything to go by.

So instead of participating in this and adding your own two, you would rather make a snooty remark? I don't quite get it.

By the by I'm not instigating a row, because we all know how arguing on the internet ends. By someone questioning the other partys' sexuality.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Sweeping generalisations, if threads like these are anything to go by.

Pretty much defines "culture" tbh.

Pepe LeFrits

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Pretty much defines "culture" tbh.

Shhhhh!

gerocks

chin_grin wrote: »

drink.
mouth off to guards.
disrespect your elders.
drinking in public places.
gun crime.
drug related killings.
talk like you need elocution lessons.
or talk with an American twang (even though you visited Disney Land once when you were ten......for a week).
Maudlin about them "good ol days" and just drink in to a stupor as you cannot get yourself or anyone else motivated long enough to do anything about it.

Oh and pyjamas as day-wear.

And 'brushed under the carpet' racism. Or what is depicted as racism and is actually our beliefs and ways being expressed countering a brutal and oppressive belief system that is currently taking over.

So all and all, happy days!

Fairly grim outlook,chin.
Maybe you should just cheer up & look for the positives in life.
Or just move out of Ireland.
You'll be surprised that all of your bugbears exist in every corner of the World.

phasers

hating Bono

Snowie

chin_grin wrote: »

drink.
mouth off to guards.
disrespect your elders.
drinking in public places.
gun crime.
drug related killings.
talk like you need elocution lessons.
or talk with an American twang (even though you visited Disney Land once when you were ten......for a week).
Maudlin about them "good ol days" and just drink in to a stupor as you cannot get yourself or anyone else motivated long enough to do anything about it.

Oh and pyjamas as day-wear.

And 'brushed under the carpet' racism. Or what is depicted as racism and is actually our beliefs and ways being expressed countering a brutal and oppressive belief system that is currently taking over.

So all and all, happy days!

But the only reason there was so much drug crime, is the fact that people couold infact afford to bye drugs, so wheres the drugs there crime but the damand would wome what fall with the current situation, as for gun crime its allways been here, racisim is some new, but the problem is Irish people like to forget things, they like to forget how we migrated to america the uk, oz, and take there jobs and there dole, but when its done over here they frown apon other nationals.....
Bigist trouble with Ireland is there selective memory loss...

but then that sugest mentality and in the light of it all there's a huge pesent mentality over here.

Aidric

Begrudgery is an ever present.

walrusgumble

Rented Mule wrote: »

First of all, let me start out by saying that this isn't meant to be a spiteful thread. It is an honest question.

As stated in many other threads (and in my profile), I am an American living in Ireland (Dublin to be more specific). I see/hear/read people complaining about American culture seeping into your daily Irish lives and it struck me. What is 21st Century Irish Culture ?

I walk down the streets on the northside of Dublin and see kids/adults walking around with foreign football team jerseys on. I get on the bus and see people wearing New York Yankees gear. On the southside of Dublin, I see all of the American clothing logos worn as some sort of status symbol.

The Celtic Tiger was brought about by foreign outsourcing to Ireland which as we all know, the greatest economic boom in this country's history. Ireland has been forever changed by these past 15-20 years and I wonder if a large part of it's identity has been lost along the way.

So my question to all of you is 'what is Irish Culture in the 21st Century to you?'.

your obsverations are spot on. but much of what you have said could be said about other countries, as you would agree. ie foreign jerseys and new york yankee gear etc. maybe, i think, the sharing a culture such as sport. i know many might simply wear these clothing more as a fashion assessory than love of the certain team, maybe the clothing in question simply looks cool. and so what. it is a good thing that we irish people are able to embrace other cultures and are not narrow minded. you say there have being changes in ireland, yes this is obvious to the dog on the street. lets look at one of our institutions - the gaa. now under no circumstances whatsoever am i criticising an organisation i dearly love, but, everyone remembers or can note their narrow minded attitude as far back 1970's were members were banned from association with garrison games (soccer, rugby, cricket etc) oh course, the gaa had their reasons for this, which i am not being dismissive. either way, its a good thing that institutes like the gaa are more open to ideas, other sports and is trying to include ALL people, irresepctive of nationality

to me, being Irish, in this day and age is about doing your best, trying to stand out par excellence, working together to show not only other countries, but to ourselves and our community, that we in ireland can be just as good and successful as any one else in the world in our respective paths. this means, we have to embrace the world and new ideas. we irish are conscience of our history, some unfortuantely are ashamed of it, however, this can be understandable. irish people want to get rid of the old cliche prejudices that others have put on us.. eg fighting, heavy drinking (within reason, no harm with a bitta porter and the craic) etc

i guess, the celtic tiger brought more than just economic success. it brought a change of attitudes, lifestyle and most of all, confidence. eg more than 1 car, big tv screens, sky tv in most homes, internet, regular holiday trips abroad. maybe these changes came too fast and people did not know how to handle it?

i guess, so long as irish people remember that money and greed is not god; that they dont forget the traits that make the irish renouned and liked (friendly, honest, hard working, caring and good humoured people) we won't loose our identity.it may change abit, but hopefully it will be an improvement. we need to loose this attitude of "ya its awful, the country is going to hell". we need to loose this attitude of them scumbags etc. we need to identify the sources of our problems and try and prevent or curtail them. this can be done in an election booth (yes, i can see the naivity of this, but we the people can do something about this)

to me 21st century irish identiity is about doing more than just sitting there and being proud of our rich cultural heritage - instead actually promote it and embrace other cultures into it. look at the riverdance for example (probably a poor example) the style in that dancing (arms waving around and instruments used) embraced other cultural identities and was made its own and uniquely irish.(same can be said about the beatles who were inspired by american music - yeah yeah yeah- yet they put their typical liverpoodian stamp on their music) clothing is clothing its a personal perference - it may not turn you into something that you are not, its about attitude.

994

Most countries base their culture nowadays on the products of television and film; Ireland doesn't have much of either

drink.
mouth off to guards.Only reason people didn't do this in d'good old days was that guards were allowed assault suspects
disrespect your elders.Always happened in every culture.
drinking in public places.
gun crime.
drug related killings.
talk like you need elocution lessons. That I agree with. Some Irish accents are even worse than Singlish.
or talk with an American twang (even though you visited Disney Land once when you were ten......for a week).
Maudlin about them "good ol days" and just drink in to a stupor as you cannot get yourself or anyone else motivated long enough to do anything about it.

RonMexico

Spending the childrens allowance on John Player Blue and Carling

andrew

I think trying to see new additions to a nation's culture at a specific moment in time is always going to be pretty difficult. We're only 9 years into the 21st century, give it time!

Balmed Out

A love of sport, music, travel, socialising with friends and strangers alike to a greater degree then most other cultures.
21st century Irish culture in my opinion still embraces a lot of our traditional heritage too. My girlfriend is from an hour outside cork city in west cork and the comunity there is amazing. Everyone does some sort of volunteer work whether its with firoige, gaa, the local rowing club or whatever. When someone dies everybody goes to mourn no matter what, the stations are still performed in houses, people stay up for 3 days with a deceased person, the favourite pass time are sing songs etc etc. Everyone knows eachothers business but thats an unfortunate consequence of just how tight knit the comunity is.
Im from cork city and weve lost a lot of that but i still think were a lot more comunity orientated then Britain, America etc. We still are a very curious people and love to travel and meet people from different places and while some areas do still have a strong comunity spirit its not as all embracing as it once was.

Biggins

Past Irish culture:

• Friendliness
• Music/books & artistic endeavours
• Welcoming
• Sharing culture
• More charitable (at home)
• Appreciative of others achievements.
• Stand up for each other
• Drink (older generation more so, it was for them more of a social interaction)

etc...

Present Day Culture:

• Undercover racism
• More closed off
• Each to their own fending for oneself only
• Less charitable
• Less acknowledgement of others achievements and what it took to get there. Instead we get further bitchy and jealous - then attempt to knock it down!
• Drink and life revolving around it. (younger crowd now more so, its a more social interaction and/or just to get "hammered")

International culture that has spread to Ireland

• Drugs
• Dumb down talent - here today/gone tomorrow!
• Seeking instant fame for no talent!
• American slang/(c)rap
• More bitchiness
• More one-upmanship
• Gun crime.
• Drug related killings
• Drive-by shootings
• Disrespect for the law

andrew

Biggins wrote: »

Present Day Culture:

Undercover racism
More closed off
Each to their own fending for oneself only
Less charitable
Drink and life revolving around it.

Since when is drink..or even most of those things new?!

International culture that has spread to Ireland

Drugs
Dumb down talent - here today/gone tomorrow!
Seeking instant fame for no talent!
American slang/(c)rap
More bitchiness
More one-upmanship
Gun crime.
Drug related killings
Drive-by shootings
Disrespect for the law

They're aspects of our society, but I wouldn't say they're so inherent in who we are as to be cultural. Well, shooting has always featured in our history in some form, but apart from that.

Balmed Out

thats very cynical and i think you'll find we actually invented the drive by shooting. well some Irish gang in the twenties prohibition era in chicago if memory serves

vote4pedro

On reading this thread the term that springs to mind is NGNGNGNGGNG

Biggins wrote: »

International culture that has spread to Ireland

• Drugs
• Dumb down talent - here today/gone tomorrow!
• Seeking instant fame for no talent!
• American slang/(c)rap
• More bitchiness
• More one-upmanship
• Gun crime.
• Drug related killings
• Drive-by shootings
• Disrespect for the law

So drugs are a deadly international, modern problem?! Not like we've ever had a drink problem in this country till that darn MTV started up.

Instant fame for no talent? You mean TV3 now show the Apprentice instead of a different type of re-run? Whatever will we do.

American slang? As opposed to the Gaeilge we've been speaking fluently for centuries? What difference if its English or American terms we use, languages evolve. Except for the Irish one it seems.

More bitchiness and more one-upmanship. Whatever are you talking about? How have you reached that conclusion, let alone how that is an "international" problem we've been plagued with.

Gun crime...a foreign import to our shores?!! Are you f***ing serious?! Not like we've ever had gun crime here before is it. Or the little matter of Civil Wars and numerous unlawful organisations using guns to comit vast, internationally renowned crimes which will echo throughout our history. You're right, its 50cent's fault.

Drug related killings? Read some work of Kilcommins (I believe thats the name I'm looking for) who has charted Ireland's problems with crime and intoxication. You're way off.

Drive by shootings and disrespect for the law? Ahem, wasn't Garda Jerry McCabe killed by gunmen who escaped via car?

---

Re my thoughts on 21st century Irish culture, Im just depressed at the amount of people who seem to spout rubbish in threads like these.

ejmaztec

Biggins wrote: »

International culture that has spread to Ireland

• Drugs
• Dumb down talent - here today/gone tomorrow!
• Seeking instant fame for no talent!
• More bitchiness
• More one-upmanship
• Gun crime.
• Disrespect for the law

I think that these have always been part of Irish culture, especially the last one, which I think stemmed from the dumb insolence displayed towards the Anglo-Irish in pre-independence days.

Biggins

vote4pedro wrote: »

So drugs are a deadly international, modern problem?! Not like we've ever had a drink problem in this country till that darn MTV started up.
:rolleyes: Aye, we grew out own drugs to begin with - we didn't import all the international illegal ones!

Instant fame for no talent? You mean TV3 now show the Apprentice instead of a different type of re-run? Whatever will we do.
The crap that is reality tv came across from other countries - can you show me otherwise where we invented it and then exported it all and the rest of the world then took up the idea from us??? :rolleyes:

American slang? As opposed to the Gaeilge we've been speaking fluently for centuries? What difference if its English or American terms we use, languages evolve. Except for the Irish one it seems.
O' I see, so Americans and Europeans are all going around more so, using Irish slang than we are using American slang??? :rolleyes:

More bitchiness and more one-upmanship. Whatever are you talking about? How have you reached that conclusion, let alone how that is an "international" problem we've been plagued with.
We have adopted more on an international culture where its dog eat dog more so than ever before. Years ago the Irish people were world renowned for self sacrifice. That is quickly dying off sadly.

Gun crime...a foreign import to our shores?!! Are you f***ing serious?! Not like we've ever had gun crime here before is it. Or the little matter of Civil Wars and numerous unlawful organisations using guns to commit vast, internationally renowned crimes which will echo throughout our history. You're right, its 50cent's fault.
:rolleyes: We used the guns a hell of a lot more so, to strive for a political purpose. One's that would be for effecting us all. Now gun culture is just being used for what it brings to one person as he/she strives for more money, positions in gangs/greed/etc.

Drug related killings? Read some work of Kilcommins (I believe thats the name I'm looking for) who has charted Ireland's problems with crime and intoxication. You're way off.
Again, where did the drugs come from originally? Where did the idea of drug taking come from? Did someone in Ireland invent the idea of taking heroine/LSD/etc for recreational use and all them copied us???

Drive by shootings and disrespect for the law? Ahem, wasn't Garda Jerry McCabe killed by gunmen who escaped via car?
Never said we didn't have a problem. My understanding of his murder was that it was related to terrorist money raking in actions. I could be wrong on this one but again, it could be seen again as done (however wrong) as an action for the benefit (by twisted minds) for all.

I have to disagree with you strongly but I am open to being wrong - which is a great possibility.

vote4pedro

Biggins wrote: »

Aye, we grew out own drugs to begin with - we didn't import all the international illegal ones!

We had a crippling drink problem, up until the latter half of the last century. That was a drug problem, the problem we have with imported cocaine is laughable compared to the drug problem we had thanks to Arthur Guinness.

The crap that is reality tv came across from other countries - can you show me otherwise where we invented it and exported it all???

Are you actually saying thats a cultural problem? If only we could go back to those rosey days of Irish tv churning out gold like Winning Streak and Glenroe.

O' I see, so Americans and Europeans are all going around more so, using Irish slang than we are using American slang???

I'm not saying that, but its a natural and organic evolution of languages, all follow the same patterns. Smaller regions will take in the language of larger ones, and put their own tweak on it. Its happened through the centuries, it was happening whenever you thought our culture was in its heyday, there just would have been people illogically bemoaning language being altered by say Scotch or English. now that altered language is being bemoaned by a new generation of dullards who don't understand how things change.

We have adopted more on an international culture where its dog eat dog more so than ever before. Years ago the Irish people were world renowned for self sacrifice. That is quickly dying off sadly.

Thats not an international culture, thats the fact we're no longer p!ss poor and are able to have competitive business and the ethos and spirits that arise from that. which isn organic, irish made creation. Congratulations! Shouldn't we be rejoicing in it so?

We used the guns to strive for a political purpose. One that would be for effecting us all. Now gun culture is just being used for what it brings to one person as he/she strives for more money, etc.

No, we didn't use to use guns for a political purpose. We've always used guns for criminal enterprise. Have a look through the law reports, or the Irish Times archives

Again, where did the drugs come from originally? Where did the idea of drug taking come from? Did someone in Ireland invent the idea of taking heroine/LSD/etc for recreational use???

That utter nonsense.

Never said we didn't have a problem. My understanding of his murder was that it was related to terrorist money raking in actions. I could be wrong on this one but again, it could be seen again as done (however wrong) as an action for the benefit (by twisted minds) for all.

He was killed by bank robbers who were in the IRA. How about the Murphy case where a woman bank robber shot dead a cop in the 70s.

People really have to get a grip and realise they're not living in a time-bubble. What you're whinging about was whinged about 30 years ago, and in 30 years time there'll be people whinging wanting to return to the happy days of the 2000's where people really showed respect for each other and you'd feel safe walking the streets at night, and everyone was friendly and helpful.

Biggins

vote4pedro wrote: »

...What you're whinging about was whinged about 30 years ago, and in 30 years time there'll be people whinging wanting to return to the happy days of the 2000's where people really showed respect for each other and you'd feel safe walking the streets at night, and everyone was friendly and helpful.

We could go over various points all night over a decent friendly pint or two.
I could probably turn you to my way of thinking in some areas and you could probably do like-wise with me. Some day if we meet in a pub, I'd look forwards to that and I'd gladly buy the first pints.

Its a side issue but I seriously doubt folk will be looking back the present decade and thinking "Lord, everything was so friendly/better then".
Go back maybe another 20/30 years and I would agree with you on that point.

All the above is just food for thought to be honest.
I have to agree with the original OP somewhat, what was known (or thought to be known) once as 'Irish culture' sadly now is probably long gone or is on its way out.
To lose one's cultural identity is a sad thing and just another step down the road to us all just becoming yet another name and number in a European game of political football - to be just used/herded for manipulation in a file and/or quote for self political gain.
(...but thats another issue)

Once we lost our majority of Irish speaking people (thin end of the wedge), we were doomed more so, faster down the road we are on.

Rented Mule

Balmed Out wrote: »

thats very cynical and i think you'll find we actually invented the drive by shooting. well some Irish gang in the twenties prohibition era in chicago if memory serves

As a native Chicagoan, it wouldn't be something I would be proud of.

big b

I don't believe there's much in the way of "current Irish culture", other than maybe pub culture- the very thing that made the Irish who travelled think the world thought they were great. I think reality may be slowly kicking in on that front.

Since the start of the "boom years", the Irish have have tried their damnedest to be like everyone else. We didn't want to be instantly recognisable as the poor kids on the block anymore.

Corporations driving towards globalisation have helped that ethos along in a big way.

portomar

Balmed Out wrote: »

A love of sport, music, travel, socialising with friends and strangers alike to a greater degree then most other cultures.
21st century Irish culture in my opinion still embraces a lot of our traditional heritage too. My girlfriend is from an hour outside cork city in west cork and the comunity there is amazing. Everyone does some sort of volunteer work whether its with firoige, gaa, the local rowing club or whatever. When someone dies everybody goes to mourn no matter what, the stations are still performed in houses, people stay up for 3 days with a deceased person, the favourite pass time are sing songs etc etc. Everyone knows eachothers business but thats an unfortunate consequence of just how tight knit the comunity is.
Im from cork city and weve lost a lot of that but i still think were a lot more comunity orientated then Britain, America etc. We still are a very curious people and love to travel and meet people from different places and while some areas do still have a strong comunity spirit its not as all embracing as it once was.

first positive post i think? a lot of good points made on the negatory side but also agree with a lot of the above. cheers balmed. The travel thing is definitely culturally important, the effect of immigration will in the next couple of decades, be a very important culturalal influence as migrant communities get more bedded down. i dont think irish culture has changed much in my liftime, though im only 25.

hating bono is definitely a uniting one, and its not just because we have to tendancy to be begrudgers, its also because he's a cnut and a hipocrate!

Social and political awareness. i think because its small, theres a tendancy for people to care more about national issues, current affairs and politics than anywhere else ive been. theres always a feeling of 'national dialogue' in ireland that i notice when coming back. this can obviously sometimes manifest itslef negatively in hyperbolic reactions to things