Decision making and concentration in football

Yavvy

I’m writing this specifically with Dublin footballers in Mind but it’s relevant to lots of teams like Donegal, Monaghan, Cork and others I have seen recently enough.

The Dublin V Tyrone and Dublin V Derry games reminded me of the thing that has dogged Dublin for most of my life and all of this current squad’s history.

Dublin’s Decision making is terrible – Constantly senior players take the ball into tackles and defenders when a simple pass would have been the right choice. All the forwards take on shots that are at best 50/50 when there is a simpler pass to be made. Defenders stop basic marking to chase runners.

This is always compounded when Dublin are behind or towards the end of a game. Always.

This issue in my opinion is down to psychology – Critical decision making.
If I can see it then so can the 2 previous and current management teams
Why hasn’t it been fixed.. is it fixable .. ??

I did some research and apparently it is fixable. With a combination of drills, training, sports psychology ( CBT seems like a good option here)

Anywho I would be interested in peoples opinions

taidghbaby

personally i would think that is very difficult to teach players good decision making! yes players do improve, or i suppose get wiser as they get older, but trying to re-educate a whole county panel - nigh on impossible!

i agree with your point that the dubs do make woefull, and probably pretty frustrating (for their supporters) decisions at times! could this be down to selection too? are their players out there that mightnt have the athleticism or even skills of some of the current crop, but have better game smarts? i dont know enough about the Dublin club scene at the moment to comment!

i also think that you can get a good idea of a teams mentality from its star players/leading lights! i mean look at sean cavanagh and tyrone - yes he's extremely talented but he's also clinical, determined, intelligent on the ball and nearly always does the right thing at the right time, ala Tyrone: efficiency is the best word to describe them!! Then look at Ciaran Whelan and dublin (i know , but in fairnes he has been one of the main men for the last decade) - he does things of extreme brilliance, only to be followed by doing something ridiculous! nobody can argue that whelan has scored some phenomenal scores and has inspired the dubs in some of their best displays, but in the end would you like to have to depend on him to win an all-ireland?? even in his hay-day?? i think not!


perhaps this decision making comes from not having won an all-ireland in so long! perhaps its from players who haven't been giving enough responsibility! perhaps its because they lack real leaders (and by that i dont mean fellas who shake their fist to the hill or shout and ball at their team-mates!

ao alany my question to you is do you try to teach the players their now, or bring in a few with less ability but more intelligence?

Yavvy

I want palyers with More intelligence and more ability ! I guess its something that needs to be done at U14 level and up.

The thing is the dublin players know how to play well. When things are going good they tend to play well, pass the ball, take on the right shots etc - There is in my opinion a mental issue here..again its not just dublin, loads of teams in loads of sports have it

But teams like Tyrone, Man Utd, Munster never seem to fall foul of this ..what are they doing different ?

kevmy

I think team ethic has a lot to do with this.

If you have internal divisions in the panel they will also out and I think this one of the main ways they do it. I think a well bonded and together team will usually make better decisions especially in term of passing/ taking the right option in front of goal.

Players are making runs, giving other players options, their is better respect between players. Tyrone are the epitome of this for me I don't think anyone would argue they have the most talented players in the country but they are the hardest working, best decision making squad in the country and they always seem to have a unity of purpose. They will play anywhere, don't bitch when not played and give it all for their county

GAAman

Alany wrote: »

But teams like Tyrone, Man Utd, Munster never seem to fall foul of this ..what are they doing different ?

This is gonna hurt sayin it about my blue's but i have said it before and seemingly will say it again

The main reason Dublin dont perform this way is because, on the tyrone panel they have a team of 15, on the Dublin panel they have 15 players. See the difference?

Most of our panel are made up of "me feiners" and like you said tryin to be a hero takin the ball into an impossible to win tackle, or shooting from angles god himself could not make. Mark vaughn is an excellent example. Yes he has the skills but he is way too selfish on the ball, alan brogan is/was the same, whelan tries to be the hero holdin the ball and runnin up the pitch and is easily dispossessed or puts the ball miles wide.

But you cant teach a player to think any better it is somethin that has to be picked up by themselves and it seems we will have a long wait before that happens

Yavvy

see this is the thing...I think you can teach players to "think" better and differently. there is no reason why everyone on the Tyrone team is more selfless than everyone on the dublin team. There is more to it.

I feel it can be fixed.

Mr. Incognito

I've noticed this myself.

There is a simple answer. Pass the ball. Don't want for a defender to come tackle you before you pass it- move it first time to an open man. Certain players drive me mad- Mike Frank Russell for example- head down, only one thing on his mind- scoring as he's never had to sacrifice himself for the team as he's always been the star.

It can be drilled out of any team with patience and it is the epitome of all of Micko's teams when he has been coach- fast nippy players passing the ball first time and not waiting for the tackle.

Yavvy

yeah but its more than that .. there are lots of lovley passing teams that never go anywhere cause all they do is pass the ball about

its about making the right decision at the right time. watching Galway and Tyrone recently made me realise this. sometimes they take a player on sometimes the shoot sometimes they pass.. but they hardly every change the plan. no matter whats happening around them. infact it helped Tyrone steal 2 points this weekend.

there must be some way to instill footballing intelligence.

Mr. Incognito

No there isn't.

Why is Gooch such a genius- you can' t coach that- You have to make a decision in a split second. That decision is either based on a team philosophy- i.e pass before the tackle and shoot in space from the 40 in or it is based on a players own experinces in certain situations. SOme people have a footballing intellignece like Gooch that isn't in the manual.

Bar sitting down with every player, and running through thousands of permentations and expecting them to remember that in the heat of a championship game you cannot. You just have to instill a team approach in them and leave them off. The reason Tyrone, Galway and Kerry do this is that all three have well structed youth training that produces exceptional players.

Yavvy

I disagree.
I think you can teach improved decision making
sure it will never be as good as natural genius but it will be better than doing nothing.

I would imagine constant drills, behavior therapy and some good man management would do the trick - Im guessing this of course..but there must dozens of examples of managers who get players to radically change the type of player they are. not just getting the most form your players but changing their styles of play, thinking, attidude etc...

Mr. Incognito

Hmmm,

Declan Kidney comes to mind with players making decisions on the field rather than sticking to the system under Eddie O'Sullivan rigidly.

I think there may be a medium, but look it's obvious that the Dubs have a habit of putting the head down and running into traffic. It's not rocket science to change that.

blackbelt

I would consider myself a critic of the club scene here in Dublin.The majority of the current crop of players have been around since 2003/2004.Since 2005 Dublin have improved leaps and bounds in terms of consistency.Leinster will tell you that.However,between Vinnies,Crokes,Plunketts,Brigids there are too many players who have been there getting more complacent about their place on the team.

The Mé Féiners for me are Diarmuid Connolly,Alan Brogan,Mark Vaughan.To a much lesser degree Bernard can seem a bit of a hero but he usually ends up earning a point.We need more team players and I think there are certain clubs in Dublin who can provide them.The likes of Ballymun Kickhams and Thomas Davis.I was particularly impressed by Ballymun Kickhams run to the Dublin semi-final and they were unlucky not to beat Plunketts.The teamwork and hand passing and long balls were cleverly synchronised and co-ordinated and Kickhams were 1 inch from making a Dublin final.

I'd like to see a fully fit Ted Furman in the forwards and Cian O Sullivan in the back line with Griffin,Brennan and Cahill.They make good decisions and have the athleticism to make it as hard as possible for the opposition to get scores.

taidghbaby

Alany wrote: »

I disagree.
I think you can teach improved decision making
sure it will never be as good as natural genius but it will be better than doing nothing.

the probem with with trying to teach players to make good decisions is that you tend to teach them to do one thing...i.e. in the dublin case instead of shooting from 65 yards out they pass all them time!! that can be grand but at the end of the day if you really want to go anywhere you need players who can think for themselves and make the right decision at the right time - i still think its impossible to teach that!

you can teach players to do the right thing in a certain situation.......but is there time to teach players what to do in every conceivable situation there is an a match.....do we know all the situations that might arise?? IMO it is up to the players to take the responsibilty onto themselves - however back to the OP, do the Dubs have the players who can do that?????????

Yavvy

I dont honestly know if some of the players will ever change.. certainly the older ones might be stuck in their ways but I would hope the likes of Bernard brogan and Conal Keany could change.

see what im talking about is not just bashing one tatic into their heads its about teaching them to make the right decision at the right time. composure, intellengence, application ..they teach this stuff to SWAT teams ( saw it on telly) cant they do it to footballers ?

Orizio

Which Cork performance(s) are you referring to?

Yavvy

ack loads of Cork footballing matches I have watched.. I have noticed that when they are really put up to the decision making went out the window. apart from the Munster Final last year which was for some reason driven by some other force of nature.

kevmy

Alany wrote: »

I disagree.
I think you can teach improved decision making
sure it will never be as good as natural genius but it will be better than doing nothing.

I would imagine constant drills, behavior therapy and some good man management would do the trick - Im guessing this of course..but there must dozens of examples of managers who get players to radically change the type of player they are. not just getting the most form your players but changing their styles of play, thinking, attidude etc...

I think it can be improved but you will never reach the level where players have a natural ability to do it. Most things can be improved with time and effort but strangely it is down to the individual rather and the team to make the changes. A good team comes from individuals putting the team first. If 3 or 4 individuals don't do it the team is screwed.

Thats not to say you can't have stars on a team, Cavanagh is the perfect example

LeoB

Have to agree with blackbelt on his point teams like Kickhams, Davis and a few others can provide the players but will they be given a chance? I dont think so. Also agree to many players are complacent on Dublin panel, its seems nearly harder to get off it than on it.;)

I think getting back to op a certain amount of better decision making can be coached into people. But I go back to the very basics some Dublin clubs are so intent on winning everything by developing robots on the field they stick to such boring game plans the natural ability of a lot of players is suffocated in the process.

The only way out for Dublin is to start dropping players who dont fully toe the line. No Tyrone player is indispensible because of their work ethic and understanding of the team game.
As G.A.Aman said Tyrone have a team of 15 Dublin have 15 players