Big-engined old(ish) cars - what do you think?

Mr Benevolent

I was chatting to a friend last night about this - the amount of big engined luxury auto old cars at bargain prices is really unprecedented. Feck the tax, feck the insurance - they're fantastic. He did mention that a friend of his has an '89 S500 and has to plan his route by petrol stations :rolleyes:

Does anyone have one? Are they really that great?

L-M

No, but god I can't wait until I do. It'll be an S500/S600...

cantdecide

I have a '98 A6 2.8 Quattro sport.

The bank doesn't own it. I do. Compared to what it was worth when it was new, it was effectively free!!

It does mid 20s mpg and the tax is stiff. When it goes wrong, it's expensive but for me, it's the way to go.

When I get into it every morning, I know the value for money is through the roof.

In a word, it's Bangernomics

Spocker

Ah, now thats what I'm talking about...

I'm in a '92 520i, and she runs sweet as a nut. I had her in for the NCT a couple of weeks ago, and just needed some new links and 4 new tyres. Everything else was spot on.

Yes it's a an expensive hobby to fill the tank (~€70 where I live in Kilkenny) and it's over €600/year in tax but I wouldn't swap it for anything else.

And the best bit is, even though I'm no mechanic, I take great pleasure in buying the bits and bobs off various websites and fixing her up myself.

My next project is to get a cheap set of leather seats

Bangernomics all the way...

Matt Simis

While not that old, plenty of 2.7 BiTurbo based Audis are quite cheap (S4, A6, allroads etc). V6 plus twin turbos and tunable to 350bhp on stock block & turbos. Then there are S8s 4.2L from the 1997 era that are fairly awesome.

Older M5s arent bad price wise either.

DanGerMus

That s6 is the best thing i ever did. it will have cost me 7.5k (once cleared) for what was what 70-80 grand worth back in the day (2000)? Tax is a cnut insurance aint that bad but god it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling whenever i turn the key. The car is paid for and it will probably cost me an average of 60-70 euro a week all in to keep a lot less than people in one or two year old even three year old bog standard underpowered yolks once you consider loans and depreciation.
The car costs more to run but noone drives for free and how ever much more petrol i have to put in i get back ten times over in satisfaction.

call d

I am with you on that the big yokes are worth it, I just got a scenic rx4 2.0.
I can throw the kids, pram, dog etc in and don't care the damage they do
it only cost 3k with 24 months nct the car is nearly disposable.
With a big family you need a big car but not a new one with the abuse it gets and there are some great deals out there now.

stratos

Yes I am absolute advocate of the above, I hava a four litre 10 year old car. Don't think about it as 1500 yoyos rd tax think of it as 900 above the normal, much better. As this car will last many miles, big engined cars don't get stressed buzzing at high revs like small engined cars.

However You need to be able to work on these cars yourself to save money. These big cars are around the lowest price they will ever be. Buy carefully do some work yourself and these massive motors can put a huge grin on your face for fiesta money.

DanGerMus

Exactly stratos. Well put. 1500-2000 extra on what a 2l would cost to keep but when you buy for half nothing the numbers begin to add up.

Voodoomelon

It'll be big engined saloons for the rest of my life, no turning back now! If you offered me a 911 I wouldn't take it (i'd take the cash though).
The sheer size and presence on the road is awesome. I smile everytime I walk out to my car and I relish any excuse to drive anywhere. There's something special about driving a living room on wheels.

stratos

here here voodoo, I love those 7 series. The buzz of driving a living room on wheels never gets old. My love is a Jaguar, I never get tired of walking towards it (her).

Lol I like your statement of "no going back now" I know.

Voodoomelon

Funnily enough, I often mistake 2001ish Jaguar XJs for E38s at a distance, they have the same stance on the road and similar shape, you can see them coming a mile off.

stratos

just to play devils advocate. although these cars can be had for the price of a corner sofa. They will drink petrol and need to be serviced.

I can do a service on my car for about 80 Euros using premier products and it will take an hour or two. This would probably cost about 500 Euros at a Stealership or a few hundred at an independant.

I recently had a seized brake caliper, this cost me about 6 Euros to fix, the price of a seal kit. If I had brought it to a garage god knows what they would have charged me.

The other good thing is though is that I have learned so much and enjoyed working on my own car. With carefull driving I can get 24 mpg but that sort of defeats the point and I usually get about 18 mpg still not bad.

So before acres of bonnet and huge presence steal your heart do your maths.

stratos

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Funnily enough, I often mistake 2001ish Jaguar XJs for E38s at a distance, they have the same stance on the road and similar shape, you can see them coming a mile off.

Your right it's classic lines.

Voodoomelon

stratos wrote: »

just to play devils advocate. although these cars can be had for the price of a corner sofa. They will drink petrol and need to be serviced.

I can do a service on my car for about 80 Euros using premier products and it will take an hour or two. This would probably cost about 500 Euros at a Stealership or a few hundred at an independant.

I recently had a seized brake caliper, this cost me about 6 Euros to fix, the price of a seal kit. If I had brought it to a garage god knows what they would have charged me.

The other good thing is though is that I have learned so much and enjoyed working on my own car. With carefull driving I can get 24 mpg but that sort of defeats the point and I usually get about 18 mpg still not bad.

So before acres of bonnet and huge presence steal your heart do your maths.

Same boat myself, I used to have a VW Polo and I never touched it in terms of servicing, it took a 7 series to get me under the bonnet! To be honest I wouldn't touch it if it wasn't for the internet, I read nightly about these models and the hundreds of common faults with them and I sleep soundly knowing there is little that can go wrong that I can't tackle myself. What Jag have you got?

tossy

call d wrote: »

I am with you on that the big yokes are worth it, I just got a scenic rx4 2.0.
I can throw the kids, pram, dog etc in and don't care the damage they do
it only cost 3k with 24 months nct the car is nearly disposable.
With a big family you need a big car but not a new one with the abuse it gets and there are some great deals out there now.

While you seem to got yourself a right bargain i think you have missed the jist of this thread S500's,S6's,Scenic.....

Mycroft H

My aul fella had a 92 saab 9000 several years ago. Big 2.3 intercooled engine, luxery interior, 21mpg.

Fecking brilliant car. Only the low mpg let it down

Matt Simis

DanGerMus wrote: »

That s6 is the best thing i ever did. it will have cost me 7.5k (once cleared) for what was what 70-80 grand worth back in the day (2000)? Tax is a cnut insurance aint that bad but god it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling whenever i turn the key. The car is paid for and it will probably cost me an average of 60-70 euro a week all in to keep a lot less than people in one or two year old even three year old bog standard underpowered yolks once you consider loans and depreciation.
The car costs more to run but noone drives for free and how ever much more petrol i have to put in i get back ten times over in satisfaction.

I forgot about the S6, good choice. Update us when its settled in on MPG and the like. I think 20 and over is a reasonable expectation. Considering my parents new EUR50k CX7 (Mazda 2.3 Turbo SUV thing) only manages 25ish at best and has the road presence of a fat school runabout and the interior of a Fiesta, I think the old barges can stand toe to toe with many modern trash.

Johnny Storm

FWIW I have a 97 XK8, beautiful car to drive, fuel and tax are high but the real PIA is that it's very expensive if anything goes wrong. EG ABS warning light is on, Jag wants €3K to repair.

meathstevie

A friend of mine in Derry drives a big BMW 740 early 2001 vintage. Only 75000 miles on it when he bought it for 5k sterling last year. The yoke has everything : leather, television, DVD, sat nav etc etc and it's a dream to drive and sit in as a passenger.

And if you're into different stuff altogether, big engined twin cab pick ups are going for buttons at the moment.

mike65

If you choose well and are in a job (has to be the qualifier in this day and age!), its the way to go. Yes the tax is murder but if you spend say 5 grand on a 8-10 year car as opposed to 25 grand on something much smaller but new - its a no brainer. Both will loose value over the next 4/5 years but only one will loose most of its value (hint, its not the old barge). Running big complex cars is mainly about buying well and getting to know the right people when stuff goes wrong - dealers charge the earth but there are plenty of suppliers of parts and servicing who cost far less.

rebel.ranter

Bought a 2002 525i 3 years ago, only sorry now that I didn't go for 540i of same year which could have been had for the same money.

True the maintenance on an old yoke is called upon a bit more, they only make sense to own a car like those suggested in this thread if you can do the work yourself.

Jags, Merc E/S, BMW 5/7, Audi 6/8 that type of thing.

The buzz when you have it all running sweet again is great.

Actually what I would really fancy next is an old Hart To Hart style Merc convertible.

cnocbui

stratos wrote: »

big engined cars don't get stressed buzzing at high revs like small engined cars.

Myth.

Luke Crowley

I have a '95 Mercedes E200 (W124 series), and it's the best not-quite-three grand I ever spent. Yes, tax isn't cheap and yes, it does have quite an appetite for petrol, but the whole experience is just so much nicer than a horrible modern econobox that it's worth every penny of the extra running costs. (not to mention depreciation that varies between zero and negaitve, depending on how many car magazines feature W124s in "they don't make 'em like they used to" articles).

ShevY

I dont see myself ever spending big money on a new or newish car. I'd much rather pick up something cheap and clean and pay the high tax.

At the moment I have a '97 328 coupe with every toy, hasnt hit 100k yet and is running perfectly. I can go to forums dedicated to my model and find the cause of any problem I have and learn to fix most myself. loving it. The only problem is I want an M3 now :pac:

The father drives an old 4.6l petrol range rover. Its a vogue and cost 10k less than the diesel at the time of buying which was nowhere near the spec and underpowered.
again, rather spend the 10k on extra tax and petrol

Johnboy Mac

Confab wrote: »

I was chatting to a friend last night about this - the amount of big engined luxury auto old cars at bargain prices is really unprecedented. Feck the tax, feck the insurance - they're fantastic. He did mention that a friend of his has an '89 S500 and has to plan his route by petrol stations :rolleyes:

Does anyone have one? Are they really that great?

I considered it buying a either a 300SE or 500SE '86-'90. Did some homework and it was a goer for me at the time.

For a car in decent condition, full s/h both M-B & specialist with good spec. I was looking at spending €8k including VRT, a major service & a few bits & bobs. Not exactly 'Bangeromatics' but hell a modern classic Merc, first class build quality, style without being too flash, a nice few options, a bit of poke, in full working order and no servicing for 10k mls and knowing it cost somebody else the thick end of £35 -45k in the U.K. new in 1990. Not bad eh?

stratos

Johnny the xk8 is next on my list, don't mind the dealer prices with a bit of research I bet you could do this fix yourself for much less.

Jaguar electronics are complex but still basic principles apply.

Join the jaguar enthusiasts club in the U.K. they are a mine of information. You get access to David Marks The U.K. jaguar guru. I am member myself, and david will ansewer questions and give you advice. (even by phone sometimes)

The problem may be a simple as a seat ocuppancy sensor or a seat belt wiring harness. The dealers genearally just change parts untill stuff works.

Hope this helps and good luck with the xk.:) awesome car.

Johnny Storm

Thanks stratos. FYI I took the ABS module out and sent it to BBS ReMan but it didn't fix the problem. I have my (second) Jag specialist on the job and hopefully he will be getting stuck into it later this week.
Here is another very good resourse:
http://forums.roadfly.com/forums/jaguar/jaguar_xk8/
It's US-based but essentially the XK8 is identical in Euro and US form except for the steering wheel.

Voodoomelon

Weird, I believe my ABS module went this week as well, my ABS, traction control and dynamic brake control lights are all on. I think it's in the region of €1000 for a new one, or $300 to get it reconditioned. I've a code reader on the way to diagnose the problem.

Anan1

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

I considered it buying a either a 300SE or 500SE '86-'90. Did some homework and it was a goer for me at the time.

For a car in decent condition, full s/h both M-B & specialist with good spec. I was looking at spending €8k including VRT, a major service & a few bits & bobs. Not exactly 'Bangeromatics' but hell a modern classic Merc, first class build quality, style without being too flash, a nice few options, a bit of poke, in full working order and no servicing for 10k mls and knowing it cost somebody else the thick end of £35 -45k in the U.K. new in 1990. Not bad eh?

I've always loved those cars. And the first of the RHD W126 500SEs is due for classic tax/VRT very shortly!

pburns

There is a lot of mutual back-slapping going on here. Personally I couldn't be arsed owning an old barge just to get satisfaction from the fact that it cost some idiot a hundred grand 10 years, a million miles and ten-thousand farts ago. There's a huge amount of smugness and inverted snobbery going on here guys.

Lets look at the cons - there's always the strong possibility of big repair bills, chasing around after parts and driving miles to find a specialist that'll fix it for less than a kings ransom. Most peoples lives are busy enough without that sort of crap... Plus most people don't want to look like Arthur Daley or the local drugs dealer - there really is a whiff of medallion man/council estate about a lot of these motors.

I'm delighted to see old cars like this on the road but it's not all win-win. They may seem to represent great value but at the end of the day, in this capitalist society we live in, everything finds it's own level and if something is cheap as chips it's usually for a reason...

Just adding a counterpoint, I do see the attraction (apart from the guy championing the Scenic rx4 2.0:rolleyes:)

Voodoomelon

I don't think anyone said it was win-win, if anything most people have pointed out the high tax, the high fuel consumption and over the odds servicing costs.

What *I* don't understand is why people go out and spend €28,000 on a damn Golf.

EI-EAY

I've 1999 LS400, Which is VERY VERY comfortable for long drives. If i set the cruise control on a trip from Galway to Dublin It shows 29mpg. It has all the toys and everything works. Over two years and 30k miles i've only paid for tyres and servicing now showing 130K miles. V8 Sounds great too!

Becuase it cost so little I can leave it parked anywhere.

I dont use this for work everday if I did I would expect to see low 20's mpg. On the negative side the handling is a bit titanic and repair bills wont be fun but its built to last.

unkel

Anan1 wrote: »

I've always loved those cars.

Me too. It's my favourite saloon ever.

Anan1 wrote: »

And the first of the RHD W126 500SEs is due for classic tax/VRT very shortly!

Shhhhhttt

unkel

pburns wrote: »

there's always the strong possibility of big repair bills

If an engine or a gear box goes, it will cost thousands. But because these cars are so much better built, I reckon the chance of something serious going wrong is a lot smaller than with a cheap econobox. In my 9 years of owning old V8 petrol BMWs, I've only had one >€400 repair bill and that was for a suspension rebuild at 140k miles, which I knew was coming

On the other hand, this forum is full of stories about 2-3 year old diesel econocars with broken dual mass flywheels, costing what - the guts of two grand to fix by the main dealer? Buy a new car and you're covered by warranty, but depreciation alone on a new econobox is more than the total yearly running costs of an old luxobarge if your mileage isn't big.

Luke Crowley

Voodoomelon wrote: »

What *I* don't understand is why people go out and spend €28,000 on a damn Golf.

+1.

JimmyCrackCorn!

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I don't think anyone said it was win-win, if anything most people have pointed out the high tax, the high fuel consumption and over the odds servicing costs.

What *I* don't understand is why people go out and spend €28,000 on a damn Golf.

But Its a TDDIIIII with RED T small I and Pink D.

Iv recently been thinking of a volvo 850/v40 T5 as someone offered me a GT2871R quite cheep and im liking the idea of 300hp sleeper.

qz

As soon as I get finances (to buy and last for technical mishaps) and insurance I'll be hopping into an e39 M5 without a moment's hesitation .

Voodoomelon

Legendary car, a fine choice. The only thing that worries me about older performance cars is that you can be sure they've been through some heavy driving over the years. An immaculate service history is one thing, but 10 years of periodic foot to the floor driving is a bit of a deterrent for me. If anything i'd try and find a 2003-2004 M5 E39, as exceptionally rare as they are.

I've seen the odd 2004 E39 in my area which must be late 2003 models, but I don't think i've ever seen a 2001+ M5 E39.

kazul

http://www.kinki-company.co.jp/stock_img/1780468_1.jpg

I drive one of these, hope link works .
Handles like a barge but smooth as butter. Costs a bit on petrol but sometimes "smiles per gallon" count more. She sings and surges when when you knock off the overdrive, hit the power button and mash the loud pedal. I also like the fact that it looks like an old american cop/government car.
One of my favourite features is the button to put the electric aerial at half mast. The automatic lights are rare enough on a car of it's age, although I never use them. Not my ideal car but it'll do until I can afford to change.
If the government introduces a scrappage scheme I could turn a profit on it

qz

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Legendary car, a fine choice. The only thing that worries me about older performance cars is that you can be sure they've been through some heavy driving over the years. An immaculate service history is one thing, but 10 years of periodic foot to the floor driving is a bit of a deterrent for me. If anything i'd try and find a 2003-2004 M5 E39, as exceptionally rare as they are.

I've seen the odd 2004 E39 in my area which must be late 2003 models, but I don't think i've ever seen a 2001+ M5 E39.

True, my father bought a 00 model when it was just two years old I think and it actually turned out to be a pup (and it was bought from a main dealer, surprisingly). It'd be a case of going over to England to source one I think, much better choice! There's a 99 model around my area, and another 01, but I don't think I've ever seen an 03 or 04.

SAABMAN

pburns wrote: »

Lets look at the cons - there's always the strong possibility of big repair bills, chasing around after parts and driving miles to find a specialist that'll fix it for less than a kings ransom. Most peoples lives are busy enough without that sort of crap... Plus most people don't want to look like Arthur Daley or the local drugs dealer - there really is a whiff of medallion man/council estate about a lot of these motors.

Then again, if something really expensive breaks you can just get another car!

galwaytt

pburns wrote: »

Lets look at the cons - there's always the strong possibility of big repair bills, chasing around after parts and driving miles to find a specialist that'll fix it for less than a kings ransom. Most peoples lives are busy enough without that sort of crap... Plus most people don't want to look like Arthur Daley or the local drugs dealer - there really is a whiff of medallion man/council estate about a lot of these motors.

I'm delighted to see old cars like this on the road but it's not all win-win. They may seem to represent great value but at the end of the day, in this capitalist society we live in, everything finds it's own level and if something is cheap as chips it's usually for a reason...

Just adding a counterpoint, I do see the attraction (apart from the guy championing the Scenic rx4 2.0:rolleyes:)

Actually, the inverse is true: they are less likely to need repairing in the first place, as they are built up to a standard, not down to a price. Secondly, they are less likely imho to need a 'specialist', as they are, fundamentally, less complex than highly-strung new stuff. As such, some parts are laughably cheap. 4 new discs for my 968 for Eur65?? New flywheel a while ago (at 148k miles, admittedly) Eur980. My 02 Mazda diesel needs one, and I've been quoted 1500 to do it (which I'm not, btw........). My local indy works on my P-cars for Eur 40/hr. That's less than half the rate of the local main Ford dealer, btw..........

I've just bought 4 tyres for it - Eur 400 inc balancing and fitting. Cheaper than our 1.9 diesel Saab. (smaller/narrow, too, curiously.......)

True, they're not for everyone, and the tax is a right pain, but that's not the car's fault.

Johnboy Mac

pburns wrote: »

There is a lot of mutual back-slapping going on here. Personally I couldn't be arsed owning an old barge just to get satisfaction from the fact that it cost some idiot a hundred grand 10 years, a million miles and ten-thousand farts ago. There's a huge amount of smugness and inverted snobbery going on here guys.

Lets look at the cons - there's always the strong possibility of big repair bills, chasing around after parts and driving miles to find a specialist that'll fix it for less than a kings ransom. Most peoples lives are busy enough without that sort of crap... Plus most people don't want to look like Arthur Daley or the local drugs dealer - there really is a whiff of medallion man/council estate about a lot of these motors.

I'm delighted to see old cars like this on the road but it's not all win-win. They may seem to represent great value but at the end of the day, in this capitalist society we live in, everything finds it's own level and if something is cheap as chips it's usually for a reason...

Just adding a counterpoint, I do see the attraction (apart from the guy championing the Scenic rx4 2.0:rolleyes:)

First, idiots did not and could afford thes big barges new as you put. It's thanks to the very well off that people like me can afford to buy, maintain and enjoy these originally very expensive cars when they were new. I used a '86-'90 Mercedes-Benz 300/500SE as an example earlier in the thread.

As for the cons, of course there is (just as the massive depreication on a new or fairly new modern car and to repair a modern, say auto g/box would be far more than on a car 25yrs old) but you've missed the point about the pleasure one gets from looking after a modern classic and if you don't have the time and are not willing to make the effort of looking after it, my advise to anybody is buy a modern car.

Regarding the Arthur Daly image is a bit subjective, especially when you consider there are hundred of thousands of classic & modern classic car owners from all walks of life in the E.C. alone.

CharlieCroker

This would be my mine if I had a chance. Buddy in the trade had one for sale that i was moments away from buying. Was mint!!!

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Lexus/GS300/3.0-Auto/200911192151798/advert

old boy

i have a 91 w201, 1.8 auto, 43 euro to fill it, which takes me for 320 miles, i have now for 13,000 miles, spedo reads 119000, all it has cost is 4 tyres plus a small service, i got it for 650 lids, it owes me nothing, if it calves i will just buy something similar.

Johnboy Mac

old boy wrote: »

i have a 91 w201, 1.8 auto, 43 euro to fill it, which takes me for 320 miles, i have now for 13,000 miles, spedo reads 119000, all it has cost is 4 tyres plus a small service, i got it for 650 lids, it owes me nothing, if it calves i will just buy something similar.

There are very well built, far better than the later products so in thoery you should have little worries.

Prevenative maintenance is the key. Regular Eng. oil & filter (12mts/6,000mls), get the engine coolant changed with the thermostat & system flushed (including the heater matrix) with fresh coolant added also gearbox oil & filter changed. Worth inspecting the distributor cap & rotor - parts are cheap and maybe invest in a set of plug leads. Fuel pump relays go but are easy to change.

Happy motoring.


Edit: Forgot to mention the fuel filter, ofter over looking as well a diff.oil .

Johnboy Mac

cantdecide wrote: »

I have a '98 A6 2.8 Quattro sport.

The bank doesn't own it. I do. Compared to what it was worth when it was new, it was effectively free!!

It does mid 20s mpg and the tax is stiff. When it goes wrong, it's expensive but for me, it's the way to go.

When I get into it every morning, I know the value for money is through the roof.

In a word, it's Bangernomics

+1