Volvo anti skid service

Michael Mc

A few weeks ago this message came on the dash, brought car to local volkswsagen dealer who said that the brake pads on all four wheels needed changing. Had them replaced at a cost of 300.00 euro. The following day the message came back on they told me that they didn't have the diagnostic machine so I would have to bring the car to a Volvo garage. Called a dealer who said they would have to look at it before they can give me a price. I know its not there fault but I would like to know what I'm getting into. Brought car to a recommended independent mechanic on Wed, he did a test with his computer & said that I needed 2 front abs sensors & would cost 450.00 but he was sure that was it.Told him to fit them, paid the money & got the car back today,drove it for 10 minutes & the message came back on, I brought it back to him & he said it was a loose connection on the new sensors,he fixed it & I drove off, just before I got home the message came back on.I called him to say I wanted my money back but not a chance, Im now down 750.00 & still have the problem, I,m getting really pissed off, has anyone any ideas. I am going back down to see the mech in the morning to demand my money back. :mad:

Anan1

Does the warning come on straight away when you start the car, or does it only come on after, for example, turning left?

Michael Mc

Sometimes when I start the car the message comes on straightaway but there are time when it would come on maybe 10 or 15 minutes into a journey. I don,t think it has anything to do with turning.

Rowley Birkin QC

€300 for new pads???

TURRICAN

somthing small id say wrog there.
describe the light that comes on?

Anan1

Michael Mc wrote: »

Sometimes when I start the car the message comes on straightaway but there are time when it would come on maybe 10 or 15 minutes into a journey. I don,t think it has anything to do with turning.

That sounds like a loose connection somewhere to me. The mechanic probably replaced the two front ABS sensors on the basis that they're the ones that usually go - the wires flex as the front wheels turn. I can't see why he replaced two though - it's very unlikely that both would go at the same time.

Michael Mc

A light doesn't come on, a message comes up on the info panel on the bottom left corner of the clocks. It says "anti skid system service required" & the owners manual says contact a dealer. It seems to be connected with the abs brakes & traction control. I'm worried that I might lose the brakes when driving. Can anyone recommend who I can bring it to ?
The 300 euro for the brakes where for front & rear pads,I didn't mind this to much because they are wear & tear and I have never replaced them before, but I have a real problem paying for these abs sensors, that seems to have been a waste of money. I will let you know how I get on with the mechanic, I think he shouldn't charge me if he got it wrong.
Where do I go from here ?

Anan1

Michael Mc wrote: »

A light doesn't come on, a message comes up on the info panel on the bottom left corner of the clocks. It says "anti skid system service required" & the owners manual says contact a dealer. It seems to be connected with the abs brakes & traction control.

Light, message, it's all the same - the system is designed to shut down if it detects a fault.

Michael Mc wrote: »

I'm worried that I might lose the brakes when driving. Can anyone recommend who I can bring it to ?
The 300 euro for the brakes where for front & rear pads,I didn't mind this to much because they are wear & tear and I have never replaced them before, but I have a real problem paying for these abs sensors, that seems to have been a waste of money. I will let you know how I get on with the mechanic, I think he shouldn't charge me if he got it wrong.
Where do I go from here ?

You won't lose your normal brakes if the light's on, but your ABS and ESP won't work. I don't think the mechanic should have replaced the two sensors either - my feeling is that he just took an educated guess and went ahead. I'd think about trying a good auto electrician at this point?

vw4life

can you get it into a volvo main dealer,might save a lot of messin

Guy:Incognito

bigkev49 wrote: »

€300 for new pads???

Lets not go there again.

Michael Mc

I was thinking that I might have to go a dealer but am a bit worried about what they might charge & if I can afford it ,Can anyone recommend a Volvo dealer that I could go to, since I got the car I haven't had to use a dealer, I bought the car from the company I work for & they sometimes serviced the car in the Vw garage ,thats why I got the brakes done there.

Can anyone recommend a dealer,I am just outside of Dublin but I do travel to Dublin a few times every week.

vw4life

Michael Mc wrote: »

I was thinking that I might have to go a dealer but am a bit worried about what they might charge & if I can afford it ,Can anyone recommend a Volvo dealer that I could go to, since I got the car I haven't had to use a dealer, I bought the car from the company I work for & they sometimes serviced the car in the Vw garage ,thats why I got the brakes done there.

Can anyone recommend a dealer,I am just outside of Dublin but I do travel to Dublin a few times every week.

try http://www.tomcanavanmotors.ie/contentv3/
heard they are ok and if they cant tell you whats wrong with your car in at least an hour then you have serious problems

Michael Mc

OK Thanks vw4life I will give them a call on Monday & let you know during the week.

If anyone else has any advice please feel free to comment.

Rowley Birkin QC

Stekelly wrote: »

Lets not go there again.

Not trying to de-rail the thread but did I miss something?

Guy:Incognito

bigkev49 wrote: »

Not trying to de-rail the thread but did I miss something?

Have a look for threads involving LoveDucati2 (specifically his arguements with Darragh.

gibbon75

Michael,

Is your Volvo a post 2004 S40/V50 by any chance?

Hellrazer

If its one of the post 2004 models its probably the dstc control unit gone.

Common problem with them.
Depending on the year it might be covered under warranty even if its out of the 2 years of Volvo warranty.

If not covered its going to cost you about a grand + labour.

What Im more concerned about is that the VW garage fitted pads at 300 and the light was still on and the indy guy replaced the 2 sensors at 450 and the light was still on.
So your now down 750 euros when a trip to a main dealer wouldve saved you all this hassle.And if it is the control unit you wouldve had 750 towards the cost of it.

If you want to pm me -Ill get it booked in for you in our place.And if it turns out to be the control unit Ill look after you with the price of it.

Woodey

You need to get the car to a main dealer, if it is the BCM, Volvo will cover the cost of the part and all you will have to pay for is the labour, software & brake fluid.

The retail price of a new BCM is €955 + vat, so make sure you go to a dealer and get it covered under warranty.

Dave

Michael Mc

Went to see the so called recommended mechanic this morning about the car not expecting all my money back but to at least come to a compromise, he didnt want to know even though he diagnosed it incorrectly. This attitude & whole experience is definitely steering me back towards the main dealer, surely a main dealer would stand by there work.
It might be a bit more expensive but at least they look after you.

Michael Mc

Woodey, Sorry I didn't see your reply earlier on, what do you mean by warranty, the car is an 05 its outside of the warranty so I have been told.
Have you experienced this problem before & if so can you recommend anyone.

vw4life

Michael Mc wrote: »

Woodey, Sorry I didn't see your reply earlier on, what do you mean by warranty, the car is an 05 its outside of the warranty so I have been told.
Have you experienced this problem before & if so can you recommend anyone.

if theres a known problem with a car acroos the model range,the main dealers can usually cover it under manufacturers warranty

Darragh29

Op what could have happened here is that your mechanic who diagnosed the problem with the two front ABS sensors, found a fault code that indicated that an unexpected signal was received by the ABS sensor. This doesn't necessarily mean that there is a problem with the sensor. On each wheel, you have a circular toothed disc that works with the ABS sensor, each time a tooth passes by sensor, a AC sinewave signal is generated. The ECU reads these signals and can calculate by the signal frequency (which increases as the wheel turns faster), what the rate of wheel rotation is. When there is no signal, this means the wheel is not turning and under these conditions, the ABS module will release the brake hydraulic pressure for this particular wheel.

The two diagrams attached make this a bit clearer. The first diagram shows an AC sinewave signal being generated under normal conditions.

The second diagram (ABS-fig7) shows what is known as an unexpected signal. This can be caused by dirt in the toothed disc, or a missing or damaged tooth can often cause the problem.

The best way to test for this defect is to connect an oscilloscope up to the ABS sensor, and rotate the wheel and examine the signal returned. If you get an irregular signal like the one in the second diagram below, then you usually have a problem with the toothed disc that works with the ABS sensor...

Darragh29

Here's an actual dodgy ABS signal on an oscilloscope, caused by a missing/damaged tooth on the disc...

Darragh29

Here's an excellent article that explains the whole thing better than I could, it shows pictures and all of the defect that I'm talking about...

http://www.tiepie.com/uk/automotive/GMTO/KIA_Carnaval_Problem.html

Woodey

Hi Micheal,

There is a problem with early S40/V50 brake control modules, Volvo Car Ireland will cover the cost of the module as a goodwill gesture for cars that are outside the manufactures warranty, but like I said you have to pay the labour, software and fluids.

You still need to get the car into a main dealer to make sure it is the problem, I work for a main dealer in Dublin, if you pm me your number I can ring you and arrange an appointment for you if you like.

Dave

Darragh29

OP, wherever you go with this, make sure you have the toothed ABS discs visually inspected for damage. 300 Euro for brake pads front and rear is a rip off for a start and I'd be very wary changing two ABS sensors, (knowing the price of them usually), as an automatic reaction to a problem.

I'd be interested to know what faults your mechanic found using an diagnostic tool, that led him to believe that the problem was the two front ABS sensors.

Nonoperational

If there's one strong piece of advice I'd give its for unusual problems (ie not an oil change / service) then take it to a main dealer or a specialist independent. The strong chance is that they'll have seen the problem and will diagnose it in 5 minutes. As you see when people arn't familiar with the car they start doing things that dont need doing.

For example I had a horrible whine / whistle from mine. One mechanic said timing belt, one said fan belt. Main dealer put it on the ramp removed a cracked exhaust bracket and it was perfect 5 mins later.

Darragh29

gpf101 wrote: »

If there's one strong piece of advice I'd give its for unusual problems (ie not an oil change / service) then take it to a main dealer or a specialist independent. The strong chance is that they'll have seen the problem and will diagnose it in 5 minutes. As you see when people arn't familiar with the car they start doing things that dont need doing.

For example I had a horrible whine / whistle from mine. One mechanic said timing belt, one said fan belt. Main dealer put it on the ramp removed a cracked exhaust bracket and it was perfect 5 mins later.

I wouldn't be so quick to run to a main dealer. You're not exactly getting outstanding service or excellent technical/diagnostic skills there either a lot of the time.

Nonoperational

Ya I agree the ideal is an independent with experience in that car. If you drive a corolla every mechanic out there will be familiar with it, for others not so much. Asked an indy last week about a belt change for my 156. Gave a great price then I asked if he did many and had the cam locks for a twin spark. He said nah its grand dont need any special tools. For most cars he is right but obviousy had no experience on that particular engine.

Case in point is changing the pads and 2 abs sensors in the volvo.

Darragh29

gpf101 wrote: »

Ya I agree the ideal is an independent with experience in that car. If you drive a corolla every mechanic out there will be familiar with it, for others not so much. Asked an indy last week about a belt change for my 156. Gave a great price then I asked if he did many and had the cam locks for a twin spark. He said nah its grand dont need any special tools. For most cars he is right but obviousy had no experience on that particular engine.

Case in point is changing the pads and 2 abs sensors in the volvo.

There are no shortage of theads on the forum started by people who have had the same experiences with a main dealer. It's hit and miss I think, there was a thread on here recently of a customer who went to a main dealer and they were replacing everything including the ECU and wiring harnesses and all to try to eliminate a problem and they admitted that they didn't actually know what the problem was, they were just changing everything in the hope of eliminating the problem by basically being lucky.

Hellrazer

Darragh29 wrote: »

I'd be interested to know what faults your mechanic found using an diagnostic tool, that led him to believe that the problem was the two front ABS sensors.

Probably gave a 4 digit diagnostic code but on a Volvo its the same code for everything to do with the abs/anti skid unless youre using the Volvo diagnostic which narrows it down a bit more.

Indy guy was wrong imo to replace the sensors especialy both of them.

Darragh I know youre not a big fan of main dealers but we could diagnose the problem in 50 seconds.And Im betting its the dstc control unit.

Hellrazer

Michael Mc wrote: »

Woodey, Sorry I didn't see your reply earlier on, what do you mean by warranty, the car is an 05 its outside of the warranty so I have been told.
Have you experienced this problem before & if so can you recommend anyone.

If its an 05 and it is the control unit theres a good chance of a goodwill warranty from volvo.Its a known problem and Ive covered 05`s up to 75% parts and labour.

Darragh29

Hellrazer wrote: »

Probably gave a 4 digit diagnostic code but on a Volvo its the same code for everything to do with the abs/anti skid unless youre using the Volvo diagnostic which narrows it down a bit more.

Indy guy was wrong imo to replace the sensors especialy both of them.

Darragh I know youre not a big fan of main dealers but we could diagnose the problem in 50 seconds.And Im betting its the dstc control unit.

So you'd charge 1 minutes labour for that task then??? :D:D;););):D:D:D

Hellrazer

Darragh29 wrote: »

So you'd charge 1 minutes labour for that task then??? :D:D;););):D:D:D

Of course not.Id just charge for the 50 seconds it took :rolleyes::rolleyes:


Smart arse.

As things go though I dont believe in charging for diagnostic work but ultimately its not my decision.It just pisses people off paying whatever an hour just to find out whats wrong.

Then after forking out for the diagnosis they usually take it elsewhere to get the job done.

It a stupid setup in most dealers Ive worked in.Diagnosis should cost X and if you get the job done later on then the price of X comes off price of the job.

I tried it when I was running a service department in a Ford dealer and our figures shot through the roof because people felt they werent being ripped off.

Nonoperational

Spot on that. even if it was 50 quid or so for diagnosis (provided its not something that takes 10 hours or so!) then its taken off the price of the job. Would be a dream as opposed to basically giving the dealers a blank cheque.

Michael Mc

Hi guys,
Sorry for the delay getting back to this thread but I was working over the weekend,had to work to try make up for my lost money. Thanks for all the advice, it looks as though I need to go to a main dealer, I have spoken to a work collegue who tells me that he had a similar problem with his late 05 S40 (company car) about 4 months ago & he left it in with the dealer (not sure if I'm allowed say their name) in Bluebell D12 & they diagnosed the BCM module as having a fault,the normal cost of this repair is in or around 1200.00 but they where able to get the part covered even though the car was nearly 14 months outside warranty & he paid for the labour, so I will check to see where my schedule takes me during the week & I will contact the local dealer.I will let you all know how I get on.

I was a bit reluctant to go to a main dealer at the start but it looks as though I should have, I was put off by all the negative comments regarding main dealers. Anyhow I will let you know the outcome.

kingofthecastle

as a dissatisfied volvo owner, i have to put my two cents in. i have a 2.0d s40 06, and the service ive got from main dealers has been nothing short of robbery. 400-500 euro for a standard service. currently the ecu valve is gone so i brought it to an indy mechanic because i cant afford the ridiculous prices of a main dealer, he contacted the main dealer to get the part and he's still waitin for it two weeks later. i've spent nearly 2500 on repairs to the car in the last 9 months since it went out of warranty and i'm gettin rid asap. never touch a volvo again, the aftersales service is terrible

Hellrazer

kingofthecastle wrote: »

as a dissatisfied volvo owner, i have to put my two cents in. i have a 2.0d s40 06, and the service ive got from main dealers has been nothing short of robbery. 400-500 euro for a standard service. currently the ecu valve is gone so i brought it to an indy mechanic because i cant afford the ridiculous prices of a main dealer, he contacted the main dealer to get the part and he's still waitin for it two weeks later. i've spent nearly 2500 on repairs to the car in the last 9 months since it went out of warranty and i'm gettin rid asap. never touch a volvo again, the aftersales service is terrible

Ok Ill answer it as best I can.
Firstky 400-500 sounds a bit over the top for a standard service.
Any idea what this "ecu valve" is??

Now about the part taking 2 weeks.Someone is telling porkies.
98% of Volvos parts come from the UK which is next day delivery if ordered before 4.00 pm.If the part isnt available in the UK it comes from Sweden which at the very most is 5 working days and usually its less than that.
So someones bending the truth a bit.Its either your indy bloke or the main dealer.

Sandwich

FWIW, €280 for standard service on my 05 S60 last week at a main Dealer.

kingofthecastle

got two services that cost close to €500 in the last 18 months, both form a main dealer in sandyford - no brake pads or any extras, standard service. its makes me less sorry when i see dealerships going out of business, you can only rob people for soo long.

as for the ecu valve which i havent a clue about, its been ordered by the indy mechanic from the same main dealer in sandyford, the indy mechanic just wants the job done so he can get paid and get the car out of the way, its more then likely the main dealer providing the same bad service when it comes to parts

Hellrazer

kingofthecastle wrote: »

got two services that cost close to €500 in the last 18 months, both form a main dealer in sandyford - no brake pads or any extras, standard service. its makes me less sorry when i see dealerships going out of business, you can only rob people for soo long.

as for the ecu valve which i havent a clue about, its been ordered by the indy mechanic from the same main dealer in sandyford, the indy mechanic just wants the job done so he can get paid and get the car out of the way, its more then likely the main dealer providing the same bad service when it comes to parts

I honestly find it hard for the dealer to be giving a bad service when it comes to special parts ordering.We just want special order stuff in and out as quickly as possible.

For what its worth I get a bollicking if I have special order stuff still on the shelf after 30 days and its the same with most dealers.We dont want stuff like that gathering dust.So it doesnt even make sense from a practical point for them to be doing this.

If you want your indy guy to ring me I can check it out for you and see if there is a delay on the part.And if there is I can get you a delivery date but I seriously doubt it since at the most it should only take 5 days MAX.

The Engineer

I know this post has probably petered out since last month, but I felt I needed to throw in my tuppence worth!

I drive an S40 (pre-2004 model) and couldn't be happier with it! It's rock solid on the road, very comfortable and is really good on juice. The only downside so far has been the cost of servicing.

Now, I'm all for indy mechanics when it comes to oil change, filters, etc. If I was living anywhere other than in an apartment I would do alot of it myself (with the help of a trusty Haynes manual, of course ). However, for major items, like timing belts, brakes, etc., if someone is going to be tinkering around with a car that I could be (legally) driving at 120 km/h with my ar5e a few centimeters from the road, well then I want the peace of mind that the car has been tinkered with by someone who, at the very least, is familiar with it. I appreciate that an indy mechanic may have several years of practical experience over the apprentice that may be doing the work in a main dealership, but at least the apprentice is reporting to a senior mechanic who is ultimately going to sign off on the work. There are alot of people out there, in all trades and not just mechanics, who "fly by the seat of their pants" when it comes to their work. We hear horror stories everyday (there are lots of them posted here) about chancers taking on work that they don't have the necessary skills for and doing a botch-job.

Regarding the cost of servicing a Volvo (in the Dublin area at least), the last service I had carried out on my car was at a main Volvo dealership, but I made the fatal mistake of not shopping around first. They pummelled me on the price. The worksmanship was first rate, but boy did they know how to charge. The service light came on in the car on the same day as the emergency budget, so if ever there was an incentive to shop around, that was it.

I called the four main dealers I could think of and got quotes. The price for a standard service ranged from €220 to over €400! The timing belt, which needs to be replaced, was coming in at between €280 to €450! Needless to say, the garage I previously used was top of the list on both occasions.

My recommendation is to use a main dealership, but do your homework first.