Prophicies of Garbandal and Medjugorje

Pamela111

Hello All,

This is a discussion for Catholics since non beleivers and other Christians don't beleive in this. So I wonder what do Catholics think of the prophicies?

They predict the demise of the Catholic Church and great persecution for all. But when things are at the worst there will be a great warning from God that everyone in the world will witness.

According to the prophicies the great warning will be followed by a great miracle that will show all that God exists although many will still refuse to repent and glorify God. Russia will convert.

However, after this a great chasetisement will follow and anyone who refuses both the miracle sign and warning and still refuses to beleive and repent will suffer great pains and will unfortunately be damned.

The chasetisement that will follow will purify the world, cities will be destroyed and all the works of men will come to the ground.

Prophecy of Gerbandal:
http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/mimas.htm

Prophecy of Medjugorje:
http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/encelad.htm

Personally Im always skeptical about any prophecy not accepted by the Church but something within me and from what Ive seen and heard myself I do trust that both these prophicies will turn out to be genuine and accurate.

Our Lady warned in Fatima what would happen if Communism spread, soon we will see the consequences. Pray for Russia, pray for the world leaders and pray for the media, especially all of those in this country. Unless there is a major change from world leaders and the people under them right down to us at the bottom then we face great suffering. This world does not belong to us.

Nodin

Our Lady warned in Fatima what would happen if Communism spread, soon we will see the consequences. Pray for Russia, pray for the world leaders and pray for the media, especially all of those in this country.

Russia is no longer communist. Communism isn't spreading.

Pamela111

Nodin wrote: »

Russia is no longer communist. Communism isn't spreading.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The unfortunate thing about what is ahead is that the Just and the good will suffer as much as the wicked.

Pamela111

We need to also pray for the protection of the Pope. A time may pass when the Church will be without a Pope and priest will be against priest and bishop against bishop and even cardinal against cardinal.

Saint Faustina was said that before the 2nd coming that a great sign will appear in the sky.

"All light in the heavens will be extinguished, and there will be great darkness over the whole earth," St. Faustina claimed she was told. "Then the Sign of the Cross will be seen in the sky, and from the openings where the hands and the feet of the Savior were nailed will come forth great lights which will light up the earth for a period of time. This will take place shortly before the last day."

Interesting: http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=63712232&blogID=102762464

Here is one of the quotes:

[FONT=arial,helvetica]JUNE 18, 1965: "As my message of October 18 has not been complied with and has not been made known to the world, I am advising you that this is the last one. Before, the cup was filling up. Now it is flowing over. Many cardinals, many bishops and many priests are on the road to perdition and are taking many souls with them. Less and less importance is being given to the Eucharist. You should turn the wrath of God away from yourselves by your efforts. If you ask His forgiveness with sincere hearts, He will pardon you. You are now receiving the last warnings. I love you very much and do not want your condemnation. Pray to us with sincerity and we will grant your requests. You should make more sacrifices. Think about the passion of Jesus."

After seeing something like this myself during my own conversion I do beleive the follwoing statement:

[/FONT][FONT=arial,helvetica]Conchita has stated, "The Warning, like the Chastisement, is a fearful thing for the good as well as the wicked. It will draw the good closer to God and warn the wicked that the end of times are coming." In describing the warning, Jacinta has said, "The Warning is something that is seen in the air, everywhere in the world and is immediately transmitted into the interior of our souls. It will last a very little time, but it will seem a very long time because of its effect within us. It would be like fire. It will not burn our flesh, but we will feel it bodily and interiorly." She goes on to describe astronomical phenomena: "like two stars -- that crash and make a lot of noise, and a lot of light -- but they don't fall. It's not going to hurt us but we're going to see it and, in that moment, we're going to see our consciences."

[/FONT][FONT=arial,helvetica]Conchita has said through her Diary, "I am the only one to whom the Blessed Virgin spoke of the miracle. She forbade me to say what it will consist of. I can't announce the date either until eight days before it is due to occur. What I can reveal is that it will coincide with an event in the Church and with the feast of a saint, martyr of the Eucharist; that it will take place at 8:30 on a Thursday evening; that it will be visible to all those who are in the village and surrounding the mountains; that the sick who are present will be cured, and the incredulous will believe. It will be the greatest miracle that Jesus will have performed for the world. There won't be the slightest doubt that it comes from God and that it is for the good of mankind."

[/FONT][FONT=arial,helvetica]On September 14, 1965, Conchita said, "The sign that will remain forever at the pines is something we will be able to photograph, televise, and see, but not touch. It will be evident that it is not a thing of this world but from God." At another time, concerning the great miracle she added, "It would last about 15 minutes." On August 10, 1971, while talking to a group of Americans, she offered this revealing information: "It will take place on or between the eighth and sixteenth of March, April or May. It will not happen in February or June." Eight days in advance of the miracle ,Conchita will give notice to the world about its coming. Prior to the eight-day notice, God will send a warning to the entire world to purify it for the great miracle. Therefore, the world will receive two advance notices: the warning and the eight-day notice. [/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica][/FONT]

AtomicHorror

Pamela111 wrote: »

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Wonderful rebuttal. Now nobody is going to take you seriously.

Pamela111

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Wonderful rebuttal. Now nobody is going to take you seriously.

State control of banks and business - slavery of the entire population by indebting through subliminal mind control.

Total and complete control and cencorship of all media for propaganda of false doctrine and in order to take control of the world.

Banning of religeous advertising and persecution of the Catholic Church.

A fake man made economic system initiated by Satan and under the control of Satan.

False doctrines including evolution, Global Warming and the Big Bang.

Satanic worship at many levels of illuminati.

Ireland is communist and an attempt will be made to make every country in the world of the same. The La Sallette prophecy tells us this will happen too.

Many of the peoples promoting this do not realise that they are under the control of Satan himself, many don't beleive in his existance whilst others worship him.

Mickeroo

Pamela111 wrote: »

State control of banks and business - slavery of the entire population by indebting through subliminal mind control.

Total and complete control and cencorship of all media for propaganda of false doctrine and in order to take control of the world.

Banning of religeous advertising and persecution of the Catholic Church.

A fake man made economic system initiated by Satan and under the control of Satan.

False doctrines including evolution, Global Warming and the Big Bang.

Satanic worship at many levels of illuminati.

Ireland is communist and an attempt will be made to make every country in the world of the same. The La Sallette prophecy tells us this will happen too.

Many of the peoples promoting this do not realise that they are under the control of Satan himself, many don't beleive in his existance whilst others worship him.

*backs away slowly*

Pamela111

Mickeroo wrote: »

*backs away slowly*

If I said a word of a lie I would edit it. The world will face disaster after disaster in years to come. Any country who resists the great evil will be rewarded and spared in the long run.

Either way the victory is with Jesus Christ.

AtomicHorror

Pamela111 wrote: »

State control of banks and business - slavery of the entire population by indebting through subliminal mind control.

Total and complete control and cencorship of all media for propaganda of false doctrine and in order to take control of the world.

Banning of religeous advertising and persecution of the Catholic Church.

A fake man made economic system initiated by Satan and under the control of Satan.

False doctrines including evolution, Global Warming and the Big Bang.

Satanic worship at many levels of illuminati.

Ireland is communist and an attempt will be made to make every country in the world of the same. The La Sallette prophecy tells us this will happen too.

Many of the peoples promoting this do not realise that they are under the control of Satan himself, many don't beleive in his existance whilst others worship him.

I normally reserve judgement on this forum. But I'm struggling with this one.

One point: You seem to be Catholic. Why do you consider evolution, climate change and the big bang to be false? The Vatican seems to have no issue with them.

Nodin

Pamela111 wrote: »

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The unfortunate thing about what is ahead is that the Just and the good will suffer as much as the wicked.

Yes, that tends to be the way of things. However, that doesnt really help us with the Russians not being communist and it not spreading.....

Pamela111 wrote: »

Ireland is communist and an attempt will be made to make every country in the world of the same. .

Well if they make every country in the world the same as this place, we really are up the creek. But again you say "Ireland is communist" - present tense - that just isn't so.

The Mad Hatter

Pamela111 wrote: »

State control of banks and business

Socialism is not the same thing as communism. Why do so many right-wingers struggle with this?

- slavery of the entire population by indebting through subliminal mind control.

Cite?

Total and complete control and cencorship of all media for propaganda of false doctrine and in order to take control of the world.

Where is this happening?

Banning of religeous advertising and persecution of the Catholic Church.

Not that I have an issue of this, but how is it related to communism?

A fake man made economic system initiated by Satan and under the control of Satan.

Evidence?

False doctrines including evolution,

Much as you might not like to admit it, evolution is a fact.

Global Warming

Ditto global warming, though you might be happy to know that almost of the anti-climate change propaganda from where your source got its information was funded by large oil companies - mainly Exxon. As these companies are not controlled by governments, I guess you'll consider this a good thing.

and the Big Bang.

I don't know much about the Big Bang, but given that the universe is expanding, it seems to make sense.

Satanic worship at many levels of illuminati.

Cite?

Ireland is communist

and an attempt will be made to make every country in the world of the same.

Evidence?

Many of the peoples promoting this do not realise that they are under the control of Satan himself, many don't beleive in his existance whilst others worship him.

Evidence again, please.

PDN

The OP asked for Catholic replies only.

If other assorted atheists or agnostics are too ill-mannered to observe this simple request then they should keep out of this forum to avoid the coming apocalyptic banstick.

Tim_Murphy

False doctrines including evolution, Global Warming and the Big Bang.

Speaking as a Catholic... the Catholic Church has no issue with the theory of evolution. I believe there has been a few different statements from the Vatican on this issue.

Pamela111

The La Sallette message is very long:

Everything has come true up until this part which is yet to come.

Google Our Lady of La Sallette and the full message is listed in one of the top 3 listings.

There seems to be some time to go yet before the the great end.

We cannot stop the chasetisement, its going to happen. Its too late now for mankind to turn away. It can only be suppressed but not eliminated.


"The earth will be struck with plagues of all kinds;" [Mélanie added here: "Besides pestilence and famine, which will be widespread"] "there will be wars up to the last war, which will then be waged by the ten kings of the Antichrist, kings who will all have a common design and will be the sole rulers of the world. Before this happens, there will be a sort of false peace in the world; people will think only of amusing themselves; the wicked will indulge in all kinds of sin; but the children of Holy Church, children of the true faith, my true imitators, will grow in the love of God and in the virtues dearest to me. Happy the humble souls lead by the Holy Ghost! I shall battle along with them until they reach the fullness of maturity.
"Nature begs vengeance on account of men, and she shudders with dread, awaiting what must happen to the crime-stained earth.

"Tremble, earth, and you who profess to serve Jesus Christ, while interiorly you adore yourselves, tremble; for God will hand you over to His enemy, because the holy places are in a state of corruption; many convents are no longer houses of God, but pastures for Asmodeus and his own.

"It will be at this time that the Antichrist will be born of a Hebrew nun, a false virgin who will be in communication with the ancient serpent, master of impurity; his father will be a bishop (Ev.). [We spell out the word "bishop" here. In the French text appear only the first two letters of évèque, the French word for bishop, but there is little doubt that this is the word they stand for, because in Mélanie's first draft of the message the whole word is spelled out.]
"At birth he will vomit blasphemies, he will have teeth; in a word, this will be the devil incarnate; he will utter terrifying cries, he will work wonders, he will live only on impurities. He will have brothers who, although not incarnate devils like himself, will be children of evil; at the age of twelve, they will be noted for the valiant victories they will win; soon they will each be at the head of armies, assisted by legions from hell.

"The seasons will be changed, the earth will produce only bad fruits, the heavenly bodies will lose the regularity of their movements, the moon will reflect only a feeble reddish light; water and fire will lend convulsive motions to the earth's sphere, causing mountains , cities, etc., to be swallowed up.

"Rome will lose the Faith and become the seat of the Antichrist.
"The demons of the air, together with the Antichrist, will work great wonders on the earth and in the air, and men will become ever more perverted. God will take care of His faithful servants and mend of good will; the Gospel will be preached everywhere, all peoples and all nations will have knowledge of the Truth.

"I address a pressing appeal to the earth: I call upon the true disciples of the God living and reigning in the heavens; I call upon the true imitators of Christ made man, the one true Savior of men; I call upon my children, my true devotees, those who have given themselves o me so that I may lead them to my Divine Son, those whom I bear as it were in my arms, those who have lived in my spirit; finally, I call upon the Apostles of the Latter Times, the faithful disciples of Jesus Christ who have lived in contempt of the world and of themselves, in poverty and humility, in contempt and silence, in prayer and mortification, in chastity and in union with God, in suffering, and unknown to the world. It is time for them to emerge and come enlighten the earth. Go, show yourselves to be my dear children; I am with you and in you, provided your faith is the light enlightening you in these evil times. May your zeal make your famished for the glory and honor of Jesus Christ. Do battle, children of light, you, the few who see thereby; fir the time of times, the end of ends, is at hand.

"The Church will be eclipsed, the world will be in consternation. But there are Enoch and Elias, they will preach with the power of God, and men of good will will believe in God, and many souls will be comforted; they will make great progress by virtue of the Holy Ghost and will condemn the diabolical errors of the Antichrist.

"Woe to the inhabitants of the earth. There will be bloody wars, and famines; plagues and contagious diseases; there will be frightful showers of animals; thunders which will demolish cities; earthquakes which will engulf countries; voices will be heard in the air; men will beat their heads against the walls; they will call on death, yet death will constitute their torment; blood will flow on all sides. Who could overcome, if God doesn't shorten the time of trial? At the blood, tears and prayers of the righteous, God will relent; Enoch and Elias will be put to death; pagan Rome will disappear; the fire of Heaven will fall and consume three cities; the whole universe will be struck with terror, and many will allow themselves to be seduced because they didn't adore the true Christ living in their midst. It is time; the sun is darkening; Faith alone will survive.

"The time is at hand; the abyss is opening. Here is the king of the kings of darkness. Here is the beast with its subjects, calling itself the savior of the world. In pride he will rise skyward to go up to Heaven; he will be stifled by the breath of St. Michael the Archangel. He will fall and the earth -which for three days will be in constant change- will open its fiery bosom; he will be plunged forever with all his followers into hell's eternal chasms. Then water and fire will purify the earth and consume all the works of men's pride, and everything will be renewed; God will be served and glorified."

Lorcan78

13 comments and 666 views on this thread before i commented :eek:

lmaopml

Hi Pamela,

I'm Catholic and would tend to go along with the Catholic church on this matter. The Church don't recognise these prophesies as valid and sometimes I think it's a shame that many don't know that.

On a personal note, I tend to go along with sacred scripture in that we don't know the day or the hour......and I think some of the prophesies coming from Med. etc. are a total crock of doo doo...Sorry!

It's more important to just live, pray and practice the faith imo.

Baggio1

Its a fascinating subject, not one to be treated lightly,

Pamela111, personally i agree with you, theres a move toward world economy that many are blind/oblivious to, the USA is going through a massive social change, its not reported here, coz the fed gov are controlling so much over there, fema camps have already been set up there for the martial law thats coming to the USA soon, economic world collapse is being engineered aswell, by the big offshore bankers and elite who are basically pulling the strings .

commusism not alive in Russia? i disagree,, Putin is a complete athesist/communist, and i believe that WW3 is very close, just needs an "incident" to spark it off, Obama is USA's last presidant before WW3 starts and he and the NATO powers will LOSE it to the russian/china/muslim federation thats coming, yes ROME will lose the faith after Benedict leaves ROME, there will be a false pope after this, the false prophet of revalations and he and the anti Christ - Maitreya will basically rule world wide, .

That great Warning will deffo come from God, i THINK before WW3 , as WW3 is part of our chastisement, ive read on a few occasions that san fancisco, la and new york will all be destroyed by earth quakes, lisbon in portugal too. So as they say we shall see!,, but i feeel its getting close, no anti God people will survive...., the 2 main heavany helpers for believeers WILL be the blessed virgin and devotion to her immaculate heart and ST.Michael The Archangel, its amazin that no human no mattter who will be able to kill the coming anti christ/maitreya but through humble prayer - the rosary and prayers to st.michael, - maitryea and alll his followers will be destroyed.

thats my take on it, i dont follow these things fanatically, but do watch the signs of the times , land cross reference prophecies that all seem to have a common thread and theme also the news of whats going on worldwide and the increases in natural/supernatural disasters etc,,, so keep on praying and living in hope,,,

......

kelly1

Hello Pamela, if I were you I'd steer clear of prophesies especially those coming from Garabandal and Medjegorje. I think they're highly suspect and not approved by the Church. What's the point in worry about the future? Just do you best to speak the Kingdom of God on earth and leave the future to God.

God bless,
Noel.

JesterMinute

From what I have read, I believe that Medjugorje and Garabandal are false apparitions. It is also the case that neither have received the approval of Holy Church.

In the case of Garabandal, my own opinion is that it was diabolical. WIth Medjugorje, I believe that something happened, possibly of a preternatural origin, at least at the beginning. Two successive bishops have declared that the thing was not of supernatural origin, that is, it was not of God. It may be that it is of demonic or purely human origin.

What rings a lot of warning bells is the widespread disobedience, sexual impurity, and fanaticism in Medjugorje. We see that with authentic cases, the persons concerned were obedient, but with Medj, the opposite is true.

I have studied these cases online in recent times and I think anyone who is interested should read what the Bishop has to say. He has been labelled with all sorts of accusations by Medj supporters. This is a very grave sin and demonstrates the true spirit at work in this matter, whereby a man who is, in truth, a good Bishop, is being savaged by false accusations and rumours.

It should be born in mind that the CDF in Rome support the Bishop. The CDF refer enquiries to them about Medj to the Bishop's homily, which is attached below. So much propaganda has been spread by proponents, and this too is a fruit to be looked at carefully.

And talking of fruits, Palmar de Troya was a case, very like Medj, whereby folks were converted, vocations, prayer etc... then one day the man tells the people that he is the Pope, and many flee in horror, but some stay.

I believe similar will happen with Medj - when the Vatican issue their findings, not all Catholics will accept. Some will rebel and will be lost from the Church of Jesus Christ. There may be plans to form a Croatian National Church, using the 'Gospa' to turn Catholics against their bishops, which actually happened. Whoever 'she' is, the 'Gospa' of Medjugorje is not the Blessed Virgin Mary.

This is a very good source for reliable, Catholic information: http://medjugorjedocuments.blogspot.com/

Anyhow, I have included 2 sermons from the Bishop of Mostar and a talk he gave at Maynooth some years ago.

kelly1

JM is spot on.

JesterMinute

I just wanted to clarify what I said above, in the following paragraph:

I believe similar will happen with Medj - when the Vatican issue their findings, not all Catholics will accept. Some will rebel and will be lost from the Church of Jesus Christ. There may be plans to form a Croatian National Church, using the 'Gospa' to turn Catholics against their bishops, which actually happened. Whoever 'she' is, the 'Gospa' of Medjugorje is not the Blessed Virgin Mary.

I meant that the 'Gospa' has attempted to turn the 'seers' against the bishop:

The Undermining of Church Authority

A) June 21, 1983: The Virgin states: "Tell the Father Bishop (Zanic) that I request his urgent conversion to the events of the Medjugorje parish...I am sending him the penultimate warning. If he is not converted, or will not be converted, my judgment as well as that of my Son Jesus will strike him." (Seer Ivanka writing to Bishop Zanic)

Dec. 26, 1983: ...But the Virgin takes the side of the chief propagandist for Medjugorje: "Our Lady prays for this work (i.e., the writings of Fr. Rene Laurentin.) May he who undertakes it do so in prayer, which is where he will find his inspiration." (Laurentin, p.105-111)

C) August 1, 1984: The Virgin says: "Make the priests read the Abbe Laurentin's book and spread it." (A Franciscan from Belgrade received this reply, when he had the seers bring up the matter to the Virgin.)

D) From August, 1984, to April, 1985, the apparitions continued to take place in the parish church despite the Bishop of Mostar's former prohibition. (A certain sign of a false apparition, when Church authority is disobeyed by the apparition itself.)

E) Jan. 1982: The Virgin states that two Franciscan priests, removed from their order and under suspension by the bishop, one of whom later fathered a child by a nun, may continue to say Mass and hear Confessions. Vicka the seer is asked "If the Lady said this, and the Pope says that they cannot..." Vicka answers: "The Pope can say what he wants. I'm telling it as it is." (from Bishop Zanic's document, 1990)

(...obedience to an apparition greater than obedience to the Pope?)

Source: http://www.catholicapologetics.info/catholicteaching/privaterevelation/medjugo.html

We are converted by the Gospel of Jesus Christ to repentant and conversion so we die to sin, and become new men in Christ. We are not 'converted' to private revelations which nobody can be compelled to accept.

Our Blessed Mother would never threaten a Bishop, a successor of the Apostles, to believe a private revelation or else. That just would not happen. No Catholic, whether he be a layman or a Pope, is obliged to accept any approved private revelation (e.g. Fatima), let alone unapproved ones, and the Holy Mother of God would never do such a thing. Our Blessed Mother doesn't make personal threats to anyone nor does she usurp God's role as judge.

Baggio1

jm / kelly those points you have said are fair and solid have to say....

i do enjoy reading through all these things etc,,, but rebellion against bishops etc,,, not a good thing for sure... however i do believe in the basic path of whats to happen as i said in my piece, if i'm wrong? hey ill be glad to say so

God Bless peoples

alex73

JesterMinute wrote: »

From what I have read, I believe that Medjugorje and Garabandal are false apparitions. It is also the case that neither have received the approval of Holy Church.

I know the Family of Conchita, (know her son) Certainly she seems far from fake, to her the apparitions are a matter of fact thing. The Church does not need to approve them. At the end of the day its not central to our faith. I suppose for me the most striking part of Garabandal was the message that and I am paraphrasing here, "many priests and bishops are on the road to perdition" The message from the girls came in the 60's and today we can see that it was very true. After all the girls lived in a small village cut off from much of the world. Today we know that many Catholic Bishops and Priests have done much evil, Child abuse is one of the worst sins a priest can commit.

So I believe that Garabandal was a true event. Its a sign to return to God. But I don't base my faith on it. If the Girls made it up.. they made it up, I don't believe it was a inspired by the devil.

JesterMinute

alex73 wrote: »

I know the Family of Conchita, (know her son) Certainly she seems far from fake, to her the apparitions are a matter of fact thing. The Church does not need to approve them. At the end of the day its not central to our faith. I suppose for me the most striking part of Garabandal was the message that and I am paraphrasing here, "many priests and bishops are on the road to perdition" The message from the girls came in the 60's and today we can see that it was very true. After all the girls lived in a small village cut off from much of the world. Today we know that many Catholic Bishops and Priests have done much evil, Child abuse is one of the worst sins a priest can commit.

So I believe that Garabandal was a true event. Its a sign to return to God. But I don't base my faith on it. If the Girls made it up.. they made it up, I don't believe it was a inspired by the devil.

Bayside was another false message/apparition thing. A lot of the stuff I could agree with 100%, but it was that small amount of error and heresy that was mixed in with the good stuff that meant the Church rejected it.

Same with Garabandal, I think. Sure there is a good message in there. But there are a few things which give me the outright creeps. One is the way the 'seers' creaked their necks up at an awkward angle. I'm getting goosebumps now just thinking about it. They also walked backwards and apparently were found crying on their own at times. That's freaky. At least I think that's freaky. It's that kind of odd behaviour which would raise some alarm bells about the origin of the thing.

alex73

JesterMinute wrote: »

but it was that small amount of error and heresy that was mixed in with the good stuff that meant the Church rejected it.

What is there heretical about Garabandal? I mean for 11/12 year old girls in a remote spanish village in the 60's would have been hard to pull it all off.

Supernatural it totally is, inspired by God or the devil who knows.. certainly what what I can see the messages were never heretical.

Baggio1

I think that coz church has not approved these 2 doesnt make them invallid yet!,, unless theyv been officially condemmned, i mean loyalty to church is absolute for me, but dont forget it takes years of investigation before approvals are given, St.Bernadette of lourdes dont forget was totally not believed in the beginning and years later was approved, so while i dont like heretical based things and open rebellion again church authority, i think i'd be afraid to totally dismiss them unless the church condems them completely.

Mind you, with all the rebellion within the church from some cardinals, bishops and priests, one has to also wonder if the clergy member condeming the apparitions in his backyard is possibly an apostate clergy member??.. ive no doubt many are,, since Vatican 2 many have rebelled openly or secretly, so its something worth baring in mind,

I dont agree that these things and subjects are signs of people worrying about the future, personally i find its veryy uplifting to realise how close we possibly are to the 2nd coming, the catch is of course that soo many troubles, wars, tribulations have to happen first!, and as I said before Ive no doubt we're starting the 7 year period,,,BUT if I'm wrong and life goes on? ill keep drumming and have some champagne sometime ahhaha

ciao' amigos.....

lmaopml

Alex, I don't think the Church really even commented at all in an official way....It just didn't promote it or reject it - they can't get involved in every 'visionary' opinion except at local level sometimes. As usual, these things take a looong time, sometimes too long imo, but however - that's just my opinion..lol..

I don't know what happened at Garabandal. It makes my 'senses' tingle though....It doesn't sit right with me that Our Lady would 'threaten' the Church into receiving her message..She never did before, and the message is always consistent with pointing towards Christ as savior and judge etc.

Our Lord would have already known those things anyway and would have communicated himself much better using his mother, and in a more effective way, and not had to threaten and prophesy as to the status of the Church that rejected or more precisely ignored the prophets visions.

These kind of things give me the heeby geebys tbh though - I rather like the simplicity of Knock and have an affinity with St. Bernadette of Lourde, but I am very skeptical of these prophesies or visionaries until I am completely satisfied that they have a message worth spreading..

Onesimus

lmaopml wrote: »

Alex, I don't think the Church really even commented at all in an official way....It just didn't promote it or reject it - they can't get involved in every 'visionary' opinion except at local level sometimes. As usual, these things take a looong time, sometimes too long imo, but however - that's just my opinion..lol..

I don't know what happened at Garabandal. It makes my 'senses' tingle though....It doesn't sit right with me that Our Lady would 'threaten' the Church into receiving her message..She never did before, and the message is always consistent with pointing towards Christ as savior and judge etc.

Our Lord would have already known those things anyway and would have communicated himself much better using his mother, and in a more effective way, and not had to threaten and prophesy as to the status of the Church that rejected or more precisely ignored the prophets visions.

These kind of things give me the heeby geebys tbh though - I rather like the simplicity of Knock and have an affinity with St. Bernadette of Lourde, but I am very skeptical of these prophesies or visionaries until I am completely satisfied that they have a message worth spreading..

What threat are you talking about? please give us the factual message from garabandal thats seen by the faithful as a threat?

There was another fella in here who said the girls were crying...well let me tell you something...have you ever taken into consideration that they just might be crying for PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND ME? because they see the torment thats coming our way if we dont change?

if the threat is seen as something like our lady saying that if we dont accept the message and listen to her things are gonna get worse, then thats not a threat THATS A FACT!!!! Fatima was rejected straight away and the result was the Second world war etc because we didnt listen.

St.Bernadette they rejected her too and they also spread nothing but rumours around about her. If there is one thing I've seen, its always been the poor that have accepted these messages with joy, even if certain messages turn out not to be true, it still proves that they have a the heart of a child who blindly and naively believes and to whom the Kingdom of heaven belongs. They are hardly gonna go to hell for believing in a false message anyways seeing as we dont have to accept or reject private revelation. but things like Fatima and Garabandal and medugorje is prophecy not private revelation ( there is a difference ) and St.Paul says in scripture that we should never supress prophecy and look what happened when we did with Fatima, we got world wars and mayhem.

oh but heyyyy take it to the ''wise men'' such as cradle Catholics who are so ''wiseeeee'' they know how to make judgments upon everything and they know Gods mind and how he works.

it tingled the senses of the wise pharisees to hear what Jesus had to say and look what they did? they nailed him to the cross thinking they were doing him a service. By supressing the spirit you are no better and no different than your fathers before you, for you continiously dress Jesus up and crown him with thorns with your mockery of the messages whilst all the while like your fathers before you, you think your doing God a service.

Baggio1

Onesimus..while i agree with your general points, i think your being a littlee bit harsh on the other chaps here,,, steady on bud

lmaopml

Hey Onesimus,

Gosh, I didn't mean to offend or upset in any way at all, I was just posting my thoughts that's all, or even to be a cradle Catholic in my views.

I'm sorry if my way of posting is a little on the careful side. I'm careful what I take on board, from anybody if I'm perfectly honest! I'm only learning in some ways, and yes I understand what you are saying, but I kinda go along with the views of the church for now...or at least they are my guide...Do you believe every visionary??

I make no excuses for that, but I make no excuses either for being firmly 'Catholic' - even if it is of the 'cradle' variety..?


I'm a bit big for it though

Onesimus

lmaopml wrote: »

Hey Onesimus,

Gosh, I didn't mean to offend or upset in any way at all, I was just posting my thoughts that's all, or even to be a cradle Catholic in my views.

I'm sorry if my way of posting is a little on the careful side. I'm careful what I take on board, from anybody if I'm perfectly honest! I'm only learning in some ways, and yes I understand what you are saying, but I kinda go along with the views of the church for now...or at least they are my guide...Do you believe every visionary??

I make no excuses for that, but I make no excuses either for being firmly 'Catholic' - even if it is of the 'cradle' variety..?


I'm a bit big for it though

There is not a defenitive view of the Church upon Medugorje or garabandal deeming it to be false and theologians like rene laurentin ( who specializes in marionology ) have spent years on Medugorje and found nothing that goes against the faith. Bishop peric for many years has been an absolute vehement basher of medugorje and his views are his private opinions and have no weight of authority when it comes to a definitive conclusion upon Medugorje. Only the CDF can do that. I respect him and honor his hands that touch the host all the way to the grave, but I am not bound by his private opinion.

I am just a recent convert to the faith, and I am sick-to-death of these social ladder climbing, middle class, wine tasting, over privilaged delinquents who think they know it all coming in to bash around the simplicity of visionaries that have caught the attention of and been properly studied by theologians over the years that they began, and there is none bigger than garabandal and medugorje.

Just give me one factual theological contradiction from garabandal and medugorje and we will continue and I dont want RUMOURS I want to see it with my own eyes the messages you all deem to be false or theological incompatible with the faith.

You say you'd much rather the church as your guide, well take a look at St.Faustinas case, her writings were banned by the church for years and seen to be false, and then they revoked it because guess what...they made a mistakeeeeee. BLIND GUIDES in many cases if you ask me.

it reminds me of that case were a man was excommunicated from his parish for being a sinner, he takes his woes to God and says ''God they excommunicated me for being a sinner'' and God replies ''what are you complaining about, they wont let me in either.''

and the result of it being world wars too. shame on the lot of us if you ask me. fallible dummies the lot of us.

Jester Minute

These are the Bishop of Mostar's directives:

Update: directives on Medjugorje
By Richard Chonak on September 28, 2009 1:15 PM | 72 Comments
[SUMMARY: Bp. Ratko Peric of Mostar-Duvno in Bosnia and Herzegovina has sent letters to the pastor and a parochial vicar at Medjugorje, with specific directives about how they and the parish are not to promote the alleged apparitions of the place:

that alleged messages and commentaries on them are not to be published;

that prayers from the apparitions are not to be used publicly;

the parish church is not to be called a "shrine", even privately;

that foreign priests may not give conferences or retreats without permission of the bishop;

foreign priests wishing to offer Mass must present a celebret from their diocese or order, and the information is to be recorded;

a privately-built church has already been closed and is not to be used;

unauthorized religious communities have no permission to set up residence;

and about regulating several other forms of promotion of the alleged phenomenon.

source: http://catholiclight.stblogs.org/archives/2009/09/new-directives.html

Anyone who disregards these is committing sin of disobedience. St. Faustina obeyed her superiors and the Lord commended her for her obedience to her superiors over Himself! Meanwhile the Medjugorje 'seers' ignore the bishop and do their own thing, and the 'Gospa' supports them and encourages their disobedience.

This is worth reading: http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/medjugorje.htm

As is this: http://www.chastitysf.com/q_medjugorje.htm

Much propaganda has been spread by Medjugorje supporters. It's work checking the facts. Many of the biggest supporters have financial interests in Medjugorje.

Trawl through this for the diocesan view: http://medjugorjedocuments.blogspot.com/

Jester Minute

Baggio1 wrote: »

I think that coz church has not approved these 2 doesnt make them invallid yet!,, unless theyv been officially condemmned, i mean loyalty to church is absolute for me,

...

Mind you, with all the rebellion within the church from some cardinals, bishops and priests, one has to also wonder if the clergy member condeming the apparitions in his backyard is possibly an apostate clergy member??.. ive no doubt many are,, since Vatican 2 many have rebelled openly or secretly, so its something worth baring in mind,

We don't judge which bishop is an apostate. We follow their directions. We commit sin otherwise. Of course nobody can compel you to sin. But the successive bishops of Mostar have done their best and should be obeyed. It's the Catholic way. If the thing is proved true, no harm done. If the thing is proved false, the bishop did his duty to protect the flock but was largely ignored.

lmaopml wrote: »

Alex, I don't think the Church really even commented at all in an official way....

The Church has commented officially - see the Zadar Declaration: http://medjugorjedocuments.blogspot.com/2008/09/zadar-declaration-1991.html

The bishop I believe made his own declaration before Zadar - it is too late I'm not going to look for it now. It's on one of those links in my above post I expect, probably this one: http://medjugorjedocuments.blogspot.com/

It would be an idea for newcomers to this thread to read the attached documents on this post: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68604480&postcount=19

georgieporgy

Two more interesting links on the subject;

http://www.zenit.org/article-28677?l=english

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/vaticancityandholysee/5913677/Pope-Benedict-XVI-unfrocks-Medjugorje-priest.html

lmaopml

Jester Minute wrote: »

The Church has commented officially - see the Zadar Declaration: http://medjugorjedocuments.blogspot.com/2008/09/zadar-declaration-1991.html

The bishop I believe made his own declaration before Zadar - it is too late I'm not going to look for it now. It's on one of those links in my above post I expect, probably this one: http://medjugorjedocuments.blogspot.com/

It would be an idea for newcomers to this thread to read the attached documents on this post: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68604480&postcount=19

Hi JesterMinute,

I was referring to Garabandal at the time....maybe they have commented on that too, and I made a mistake?

Baggio1

Very interesting posts chaps keep em coming hey ive this strange fuzzyyyy feeling could be a coool subject for us to meet up over a coffee/capuchino sometime and talk about this, or am i just a dreamer!?..most musicians are it seems hahaha

Jester Minute

lmaopml wrote: »

Hi JesterMinute,

I was referring to Garabandal at the time....maybe they have commented on that too, and I made a mistake?

The annoying thing about Medj proponents is that they will tell you that Father Tomislav Vlasic had nothing to do with the visionaries. The truth is on the contrary.

Re: Garabandal - I learned this today:

While two commissions convened by bishops of Santander, Spain, have stated that there were no phenomena which would authentic the events as certainly supernatural they did not condemn the message. In this regard, the first commission stated, "we have not found anything deserving of ecclesiastical censure or condemnation either in the doctrine or in the spiritual recommendations that have been published as having been addressed to the faithful." The bishop who called the second commission, Bishop del Val, upon retiring from office stated in an interview that the message of Garabandal was "important" and "theologically correct." Indeed, some of the prophetic elements of the message can be found in private revelations which have been approved since the initial decision on Garabandal in the 1960s. For example, the concept of a worldwide warning can be found in the Diary of Saint Faustina (Diary n.83), and both the message of Divine Mercy given to her (Diary n.1588), and that of Akita (approved by the local bishop), speak of chastisement if mankind does not ultimately repent.

http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/garabandal.htm

Dewdropdeb

This has been really interesting reading. I hadn't heard of Garbandal but certainly was familiar with Medjugorje. I'm actually about half way through St. Faustina's diary at the moment and something that has struck me quite strongly is the concept of obedience. Jesus often speaks of it to her and gives her little tests of obedience. She is always taught to defer to a priest or superior. If someone like that who has such an intimate relationship with Christ needs to defer to the church, then I figure so do I. I may not always understand or like what I hear (birth control much? :rolleyes:) but it is my duty to be obedient to her, as a representative of Christ on earth. So as such, I will reserve judgement on Medjugorje until such a time as the Vatican approves it.

Garbandal is suspect to me, because it's been some 40 years since the apparitions... surely the church would have approved them by now had they been legitimate? It just doesn't sit right with me.

Having said all that, when you look at doctrines like The Divine Mercy, the apologists scoffed at that for years until JPII finally supported it at which point they jumped on the bandwagon... St. Padre Pio is another one like that. So it's really hard to know... we could glean useful things from these apparitions now and today before they are approved (not approved?) but I think I'm going to err on the side of caution.

The interesting thing here is (and I find coincidences like this so incredibly common since returning to my faith a few years back) that I had been praying lately about Medjugorje. I asked Mary that if I were to go there, to give me a sign and I asked again just yesterday and found this forum last night. I think the answer is no!

Helix

Nodin wrote: »

Russia is no longer communist. Communism isn't spreading.

and christianity is essentially based on communist ideals

Jester Minute

Here's another site with a lot of information.

http://www.marcocorvaglia.com/medjugorje-en/home.html

What makes me angry is that all this information (which I have posted on this thread) IS EASILY AVAILABLE! Anybody can access it on the web. But who does? Not the vast throngs of people who visit Medjugorje and they are not encouraged to seek out the truth by those who support Medj.

The other thing that gets me is that people are damaging their eyes in Medj. I made a trip to Medj in Summer 2009 (I don't recommend it and I won't be going again) because I was offered a free trip there after a fellow dropped out of the trip. I know personally one young man who hurt his eyes because he stared at the sun. He could still 'see' the sun several hours later! The above link contains a study on this sun 'phenomenon'. There is nothing miraculous about it, but there is a very real danger of permanent eye damage. Now, where else were eyes damaged recently? That's right, Joe Coleman (inspired by Medj) in Knock. This is all a dreadful deceit and knowing what I know, I can't believe people are still promoting these things.

Jester Minute

Helix wrote: »

and christianity is essentially based on communist ideals

No, it's not. Communism is evil and is condemned by the Church.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

2425 The Church has rejected the totalitarian and atheistic ideologies associated in modem times with "communism" or "socialism." She has likewise refused to accept, in the practice of "capitalism," individualism and the absolute primacy of the law of the marketplace over human labor. Regulating the economy solely by centralized planning perverts the basis of social bonds; regulating it solely by the law of the marketplace fails social justice, for "there are many human needs which cannot be satisfied by the market." Reasonable regulation of the marketplace and economic initiatives, in keeping with a just hierarchy of values and a view to the common good, is to be commended.

Communism
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04179a.htm

Instruction on Certain Aspects of "Theology of Liberation"
Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
August 6, 1984
http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_df84lt.htm

Helix

Jester Minute wrote: »

No, it's not. Communism is evil and is condemned by the Church.

go look up what communism stands for and tell me that it's evil

it gets corrupted when people try it because of greed, but its ideals are about as christian as you can get

Jester Minute

Helix wrote: »

go look up what communism stands for and tell me that it's evil

it gets corrupted when people try it because of greed, but its ideals are about as christian as you can get

Because of original sin and concupiscence, communism doesn't work. It never has and it never will. There is no peace without Jesus Christ.

BTW This thread is not about communism. If you wish to discuss it, I suggest you start a new thread.