Foot injury

Lumen

Yeah, I know I shouldn't ask the internet for medical advice, but I'm too busy to see a physio right now.

I didn't have time for a cycle last Sunday, so I did an 8km run instead. It felt great. Unfortunately it's been about 15 years since I last ran anywhere, and I appear to have injured the underneath of my left foot.

It might be planar fasciitis, but my heel doesn't really hurt - the pain runs along the middle of my foot, lengthways.

Questions: Anyone got experience of similar? Is cycling likely to make this worse?

My daily commute involves about 3km of walking, which is proving difficult, and I really don't want to have to drive.

Caroline_ie

reminds me of sothing I had a coupld years ago after ( also ) attempting to run ... was too heavy to though. I got some gel padding from the pharmacy that you can slip on. That really helped when walking, outting less pressure on the 1st half of the foot.

Raam

just rest up for a while and see how it goes. Did you do an 8km run off the bat? I.e. no build up?

Lumen

Raam wrote: »

just rest up for a while and see how it goes. Did you do an 8km run off the bat? I.e. no build up?

I'd been thinking about it for several weeks. Does that count?

I read part of the "Stupid Running" thread and bought myself the most supportive/expensive Asics runners in Elverys, including doing the whole "video your gait" thing.

I then ignored all the advice on the same thread about building up gradually.

petethedrummer

No idea on your problem but you should give up that running malarkey, they have whole sections of running magazines dedicated to injuries. God(or the evolution machine) was obviously a cyclist.

Raam

Lumen wrote: »

I'd been thinking about it for several weeks. Does that count?

I read part of the "Stupid Running" thread and bought myself the most supportive/expensive Asics runners in Elverys, including doing the whole "video your gait" thing.

I then ignored all the advice on the same thread about building up gradually.

All the gear no idea!

Lumen

Raam wrote: »

All the gear no idea!

Yeah, you should see my whole outfit. I look great.

DirkVoodoo

Maybe your back problem has caused you to alter your running pattern and the way you distribute load on your feet?

I'm no expert, I hate running

Jawgap

Sounds like an over-use injury causing metatarsal pain.

RICE (rest, icing, compression, and elevation) and the miracle that is ibuprofen (if your stomach is up to it).

bad news is it might also be a stress fracture, but probably not.

FrankGrimes

You say you got the most supportive runners after the (so-called) gait analysis - is that because the video showed your foot over-pronating?

If so, footwear and orhotics can only treat the symptoms - you need to look into the root cause. In a similar position myself and root cause is poor inner core stability leading to too much hips slanting during gait and putting pressure on the inner side of the foot. No amount of orthotics or footwear can address that root cause, though they may help deal with the symptoms.

I had a basic gait analysis done in Amphibian King in Bray - recommended Support runners which made me worse not better. Then I found http://www.irishfit.eu - seriously wish I had found them years ago when my problems first started. €120 for a proper gait analysis looking at everything from back, hips, downwards. 7 page report on findings and 9 page exercise program with list of recommended (neutral) runners provided.

I'm just starting the program now but already it is the most comprehensive, impressive and logical review I have found and I've been to around 8 different physios and doctors with my troubles over the past 4 years.

They also do a TriggerPoint massage ball/roller kit (one specifically for plantar fascillitis) - I'm just getting going with this self massage kit but am finding it reasonably helpful already.

For a minimum, I suggest you start doing good stretches of your upper and lower calves and ankle - when they get tight other problems get amplified.

blorg

8km from nowhere is too much, I did the same myself last year being very aerobically fit from cycling but not having run before. Could barely walk for a week. Could cycle though. I would suggest rest and hopefully you will be OK.

DirkVoodoo

Yeah that reminds me, last time I was surfing I was persuaded to go for a run up and down the beach, barefoot and alternating between the hard and soft sand.

My achilles on both ankles were really sore for a while after that.

jlang

You have got to be more careful about injury when starting running than cycling. Being a fit cyclist can lead to a false sense of ability - your cardiovascular system can take the strain and go on for hours but I expect the legs and feet need time to build up the strength to take the impact repeatedly. Also, be aware you're probably running too fast (most beginners do (I did)) and may not have the right runners. The usual advice to prevent running too fast is staying to a pace at which you could hold a conversation. Should feel slow, but it's like the advice I took from a different thread about picking a low gear at the bottom of a hill to make sure you get to the top.

Don't run again until walking is comfortable. So take it easy for at least a week then try again. Going 5km straight off after 15 years is an achievement, but doing a slow 3km twice a week might have been a better start.

If the pain flares up again with a more careful approach, do see a physio (or doctor).

FrankGrimes

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Yeah that reminds me, last time I was surfing I was persuaded to go for a run up and down the beach, barefoot and alternating between the hard and soft sand.

My achilles on both ankles were really sore for a while after that.

All my advice is based on my personal extremely bad experiences and the advice I've received from many physios and doctors over the years (who are mostly only partially informed) along with research I've done myself. So I can say wht I've been told and what I've found to be the case myself - doesn't mean this will be applicable to others, but it might help.

Running on soft ground for me exacerbates any problem such as pronation or lower leg flexibility problems as when there's no hard ground to limit the movement (and it is the pronation or stretching movement that causes the pain, generally not the actual impact of hard ground). Soft firm ground (grass) is ideal as it limits shock of impact but again, in my case it's the rolling of the foot (due to the hip imbalance) that causes the problem (which is basically the muscle trying to rip off from the bone).

Forgot to mention - even in the worst spells of my leg problems cycling has rarely been a problem as there are no lateral forces acting on the lower leg and the ankle stays almost locked in the same position throughout. So good news is you should be able to cycle at will!

I have found nothing (including medicine) works better for me to relieve the pain than 1 minute in plunge pool then 5 in jacuzzi, repeated 3 times. Give it a shot if you can (Westwood have a plunge pool if that helps).

Lumen

Thanks everyone for all the very detailed and helpful advice. Amazing!

I booked myself in for a physio appointment (Castleknock Physio) tomorrow am, then went for a quick cycle (29.6km in 60 mins, yay!). My foot feels much better. Oddly, driving seems to help too, the clutch action must be gently stretching the arch or something.

I don't want to abandon the running, as it's so handy for quick aerobic workouts and feels like it will give me more balanced fitness. But I'll stop running (and walking) until the pain is completely gone, then start a supervised and gradual running programme.

The IrishFit gait analysis service sounds great.

Lumen

Physio was very good. He thinks I've sprained my planar fascia.

He agreed that the Elvery's service is gimmicky crap, as it turns out I supernate rather than overpronate. He suggested Runways as being very good for gait and fitting, apparently I can take in my existing runners and they will see if they're ok - it may just be that I overdid it.

Top tip: don't run in new running shoes until you've walked in them for a few hours to break them in.

Anyway, no more running or walking for me for the next couple of weeks - back to cycle commuting again - yay!

Caroline_ie

You shouldn't be using your feet unless indoors and you REALLY have too. I hope you learnt a lesson: NO RUNNING, WALKING. It's bad!

jeffontour

For what it's worth I have some very simple pieces of advise.

1.Build mileage/pace slowly, especially when starting from a base of zero running.

2.Get your footwear right. Amphibian King got me sorted shoe wise, haven't used any of the other services so can't comment on them.

3.Most problems(wouldn't go so far as call them injuries) I've had have been related to poor shoe choice or over training. This should be avoided by abiding by points 1 & 2 above!

Finally on a personal note, I've found most issues are soft tissue related and the best solution for me was a good sports massage. I've dealt with too many physios for whom insoles or some other gadget are the solution. Get the body as good as possible first and then consider the gadgets.

Raam

jeffontour wrote: »

For what it's worth I have some very simple pieces of advise.

1.Build mileage/pace slowly, especially when starting from a base of zero running.

2.Get your footwear right. Amphibian King got me sorted shoe wise, haven't used any of the other services so can't comment on them.

3.Most problems(wouldn't go so far as call them injuries) I've had have been related to poor shoe choice or over training. This should be avoided by abiding by points 1 & 2 above!

Finally on a personal note, I've found most issues are soft tissue related and the best solution for me was a good sports massage. I've dealt with too many physios for whom insoles or some other gadget are the solution. Get the body as good as possible first and then consider the gadgets.

This is advice from an ultra runner, so take heed

FrankGrimes

Lumen wrote: »

Physio was very good. He thinks I've sprained my planar fascia.

He agreed that the Elvery's service is gimmicky crap, as it turns out I supernate rather than overpronate. He suggested Runways as being very good for gait and fitting, apparently I can take in my existing runners and they will see if they're ok - it may just be that I overdid it.

Top tip: don't run in new running shoes until you've walked in them for a few hours to break them in.

Anyway, no more running or walking for me for the next couple of weeks - back to cycle commuting again - yay!

Sounds like yet another physio that treats symptoms. The plantar fascia is a pretty unique muscle in a pretty specific place - the real question to ask is why did it get strained at all in the first place? If all the rest of the biomechanics were working as they should, it would be pretty hard to strain that muscle.

I have strains of that muscle and the reasons are weaknesses and imbalances elsewhere. How did the physio determine that you supinate and not overpronate? If it was from looking only at your leg movements below the knee, or even worse, by only looking at the soles of your runners, walk away and don't give that physio any more of your money - they do not know what they don't know and my bitter experience shows that is quite dangerous.

My lower legs actually supinate by preference, hence I have worn outer edges on my runners. That preference for supination is being overridden by my hips tilting causing landing hip to move outward slightly changing centre of gravity and putting weight onto the inner part of the leg. That causes the foot to roll inwards (pronation) which strains the tibialis posterior (or in my case tries to rip it off the bone just above the ankle) and the plantar fascia. The fact that my foot strikes the ground in supination (on the outer edge) and I have high arches amplifies things as it just means the foot has further to go when rolling inward, making things worse than if my foot pronated by preference.

You won't necessarily have the same root cause as me (and I've only referenced my main problem of 4 identified) but I hope you can see that any physio that only looks at your lower leg activity is simply getting lucky if they manage to diagnose you correctly - the problem may lie further up.

I have no affiliation to IrishFit but after struggling with poor and/or partial diagnosis from so many physios and doctors and places like Amphibian King over the past 4 years, all I can say is it is very clear to me that if I had found someone as well informed as Leo at IrishFit when my problems first started, I am quite confident things would never have progressed to the stage where I needed surgery and I'd be back running normally by now. Do yourself a favour and get yourself properly assessed - they are the only people in Ireland I have found that can do that.