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MrNiceGuy vs. LuckyLloyd
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11-03-2009 11:02pm#1Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »I'm very pleased to be able to introduce to you fine people of the soccer forum my Premiership draft write-up. Firstly I'd like to say I enjoyed the game as well as the spirit of the contest so credit to Lloyd for overseeing everything. Hopefully the good nature of the game will continue. OK then without further ado may I present to you F.C. (First Class) Athletic, a team I hope you'll agree is the classiest, most stylish team of the draft.
Team Formation:
Defoe
Bergkamp
Zenden
Petit
Carrick
Robben
Heinze----Ferdinand (c)----Brown
Geremi----
Van Der Sar
Right folks I'll break down my argument on why I feel my team is a worthy winner of the contest in three parts. Firstly, I'll explain my overall strategy and line of thinking, secondly I'll give a brief final explanation on why I picked the guys I did, and lastly, I'll give my overall assessment on the strengths and weaknesses of my team. By doing so I hope you'll be impressed with my efforts.
My strategy:
I enjoy good, attacking football as I'm sure you all do and I set out from the outset to mould a team that would have great passing and movement. I believed from the beginning that the core areas of all teams would be up front, central defence, central midfield and to a lesser extent on the wings. These are the areas where I feel more often than not games are won and lost.
I'll be brutally honest here - I think those people in the game who picked full backs and goalkeepers early on made a mistake. I don't see the benefit in choosing an outstanding full back or goalkeeper when, with a bit of patience, you could have gotten very good players in these areas later on. I felt confident I would get a good goalkeeper if I was patient. This turned out to be the case. I also feel I ended up with solid full-backs despite me picking them in the latter half of the draw.
I was keen to get myself a great, versatile winger early on who could play either flank as I believed this would give me greater scope later on when picking my second winger. For example, if you choose someone who works solely as a left winger you're forced later on choose a right-winger. However if like I did you go for a player like Robben who can work either flank (Duff was in my thoughts too some of you may recall), by adopting this strategy you are free to choose from a wider range of wingers from both flanks later on and you're not leaving yourself limited. I feel that was a smart strategy.
I think stategy-wise it was important to plan out the importance of not just the players you're thinking of, but also the positions themselves. I would argue I did well in this regard and I hope you'll agree!
Some final thoughts on my picks...
Pick 1: Dennis Bergkamp
I was fortunate in that I was given a fairly early pick in the first round. I can honestly say the only guy I would have wanted ahead of Bergkamp would have been Roy Keane. Bergkamp as I've said before on this board is one of my favourite players of the nineties and is a genuinely world-class player and a legend. I was delighted to get him and I feel he is a magical player that would grace any team.
Pick 2: Rio Ferdinand
Ferdinand in truth was a pretty easy pick for me for the second round. I felt I needed to pick a great defender as I planned on prioritising other areas in the next rounds. In Rio I got one of the most praised defenders in the Premiership. As I recall I was going to go with him or Carragher and would have been happy with either as both are leaders. I plumped for Ferdinand as I felt he was a classier option. He will be my team's captain.
Pick 3: Arjen Robben
Robben as I touched on above was the versatile winger I felt I needed and I'm very happy to have him. I'd say one of the most explosive, impactful wingers the Premiership has seen.
Pick 4: Emmanuel Petit
At this point I turned my attention towards central midfield and felt I needed a defensive-minded player who was also a good passer of the ball. Manu Petit certainly fit the bill as he provided a combatative presence in the middle and yet meant I didn't have to compromise class for brawn.
Pick 5: Michael Carrick
I'd decided on the type of midfield I wanted - one that would be built on good passing. I didn't feel I needed an 'attacking midfielder' as I believed in Bergkamp I had the best playmaker around. This pick, as I kind of expected, got a bit of criticism as Carrick is someone that seems to divide people. Personally I believe he does an underrated job at Man United and I think alongside Petit, Carrick would have a great partnership. I reckon they'd compliment each other well. The only other guy I had in my thoughts for this role was Alonso but I felt his dip in form last season for Liverpool meant Carrick was the better overall draft choice.
Pick 6: Edwin Van Der Sar
As I mentioned above I felt a bit of patience would lead to a good goalkeeper pick and I feel relative to the rounds, Edwin Van Der Sar was one of my better picks. To get a guy I consider a man for the big occasion at round 6 was very pleasing. I'd acknowledge he's had his shaky moments at times but I think overall he's been an outstanding success at United and the best goalkeeper since Schmeichel.
Pick 7: Jermain Defoe
At this point I felt I needed to act fast to ensure I had a true goal machine up front. Defoe was the logical choice. His stats speak for themselves and alongside Bergkamp I felt the two of them would pose a frightening threat.
Pick 8: Wes Brown
I regarded Brown as a really important pick. I was surprised he was left at round 8 as he can do a fine job in two positions. My only concern really was where I would play him but because as mentioned above I don't really rate the full-back positions as that significant, I felt more confident having him play alongside Rio.
Pick 9: Gabriel Heinze
Again, relative to the rounds this was probably one of my better picks. To get such a talented guy in the third-last round was a great bonus.
Pick 10: Boudewijn Zenden
Initially I had gone for Stewart Downing not realising the guy had been picked beforehand but I'm happy to end up with my second choice of Zenden. I think Downing would have provided a better crossing ability for me but I think in my team that's not really going to be that important. With my team I think wingers who can run at defenders and link up with the front men matters more so I think my two Dutch wingers provide a good threat for me.
Pick 11: Geremi
Right-back was the last slot I needed and other than Geremi I considered Abel Xavier and a few others but I felt Geremi was the smartest choice available to me as he is strong and a good distributor, plus he can provide some set-piece competition with Bergkamp. I also felt the Robben/Geremi partnership on the right was a nice Chelsea-style combination.
My overall thoughts:
Funnily enough when I look at this team I think this is the kind of team Giovanni Trapattoni would give his right arm to have. It strikes me as a formation and style similar to the current Irish one. The central midfielders in my team won't be asked to do anything too elaborate. Just keep things tight and distribute to the wings and forwards. I feel my defence and goalkeeper are as solid as any in the game. I also feel I have wingers who can cause problems, a legend in Bergkamp who can pull the strings and in Defoe, a goal machine who can take chances that come his way.
I see this team's major strength being in its passing play. I have players comfortable on the ball whose job would be to try and get it to the quicker, pacier players. I feel this is a team that won't leak many goals but will create many chances. I think that's a fair assessment when you look at the talent on show.
I also feel I have created a team of winners, something I spoke of often when making my picks. My back four and goalkeeper for example have all won the Premiership. In fact only two players in my team haven't won the league, Defoe and Zenden. Five of my eleven have won the Champions League. One of them has won a World Cup. So this is not a team that is going to panic if it encounters some difficulty.
What are my team's weaknesses? Well I think my main concern would probably be the defensive nature of my wingers. I'd be concerned that Zenden and Robben whilst good up front, wouldn't be thorough enough in getting back and helping out. I would hope that the full-backs behind them would be able to cover in such instances and that my deep-sitting central midfield would be able to deputise too. I believe they would.
Overall I think this is a team with enough class, resilience, tenacity and ingenuity to be able to provide a tough match-up for any team. I feel my team strikes the best balance in attack and defence. I feel it's able to cause problems for opposition back fours and yet able enough to fend off and deal with attacking threats. I guess that's up to others to determine though.
Well that about sums up my case and assuming you've read this far I thank you for your time and hope you've been suitably impressed. Cheers. :cool:
vsLuckyLloyd wrote: »To begin, I wish to recap how each pick fared in terms of relative value. This is an element of the process that I felt was misunderstood by some of the participants. Yes, we are drafting a team and need to keep an eye at all times on how things will fit together in the end. However, that is only half the battle as far as running a good draft is concerned. Part of the objective
(and especially in the early rounds) is to make sure that you are taking close to the best player available with your picks; and if you are going to select at an individual position irrespective of BPA concerns, your aim should be to take the best player remaining for that position at that time.
With that in mind, let's recap how I drafted in order from one through to eleven...
Value Assessment:
I think Vieira was sick, sick value where he went. If we were to repeat this process or if there was a version of this process done elsewhere I contend that Vieira is a top five - ten pick most of the time.
Desailly is ok value at this spot imo. By taking him at this spot, he went as the seventh defender chosen overall. That sounds fair enough to me. He was a player I wanted, and if I didn't take him there he wasn't going to be around for my next pick.
When I originally participated in a Premiership draft on 2 + 2, Ginola was selected 22nd overall. I took him at 55 here. Now, a player like him is difficult to approximate in terms of overall value because of the inconsistent nature of his career. But the Premiership has seen very few players like him since it's inception - very few players have passed through with his type of upside and ability to make things happen out of thin air. Given the solid base I had established with my first two picks, I think I was able to go flair here - and if I am going for a flamboyant attacking option he was definitely the best option remaining on the board at that point.
Friedel was the 10th goalkeeper selected. Enough said in terms of good value!
I selected Kewell at 114 overall, 21 picks after Ashley Young; 34 picks after Damien Duff; and 57 picks after Freddy Ljunberg had gone off the board. I can live with the relative value I'm getting here.
If people can remember (how could I forget after all!), the merits of this pick were attacked by some. I am confident that I proved beyond a reasonable doubt statistically that for the clear majority of his career Sutton was a prolific goal scorer. And we all know how good of a war horse up front he is outside of the stats. Again though, in terms of relative value I can only be happy - given that I took Sutton as the 32nd forward to go, after the likes of Yakubu and Saha.
Delighted with this pick. 7th RB chosen and 151 overall, when he has to be somewhere in the top five in his position over the history of the premiership. Another way to look at it: Dan Petrescu was selected at 59 and Gary Kelly went at 118.
Des Walker in round 8 is obviously good value.
Hinchcliffe at 210 is kinda meh. He was always going to be drafted somewhere in the last three rounds. I would have liked to wait until round 10 as far as overall BPA value is concerned - but considering the left backs still around at that point (and the teams who still had to fill out that position) I think I needed to snag him here.
Getting Youri here isn't exceptional value. He was a player I wanted, and one I definitely think should have been drafted and given that I knew who my last pick was going to be and that he would definitely would be available in the last round this is fine.
At this point, there were possibly a few strikers still about with better stats - but none of those players could hold a candle to the overall contribution that Big Brian will lend a team. Plus, given the quality I have out wide and his ability in the air - I felt it reasonable to believe he would score more in this team as he would be receiving much, much better service than that provided to him during his time at Fulham.
So overall, I think my first eight picks were very good to excellent in terms of relative value. And the last three weren't bad value. As such, I was happy with how I drafted in a vacuum.
Formation:
Friedel
Finnan
Walker
Desailly
Hinchcliffe
Vieira
Ginola
Djorkaeff
Kewell
Sutton
McBride (C)
Balance. That's what I like about the above group.
In terms of the overall, the team is anchored solidly by the combination of a strong center back pairing working in tandem with a World - Class defensive midfielder and exceptional goalkeeper infront and behind. This solid base allows the luxury of three lightweight creative players in the form of Ginola, Djorkaeff and Kewell - as Djorkaeff is covered by Vieira, Ginola by Finnan, and Kewell by Hinchcliffe. On the flip side of that coin - each of Vieira, Finnan and Hinchcliffe are capable of taking good forward positions and aiding / taking advantage of the threat posed by the pure attackers. McBride and Sutton are clever players who move well off the ball and will make decent runs / take up good positions to help provide options for Djorkaeff / Vieira playing through the middle or the wide players getting to the byline to swing it in. The overall effect will test all aspects of an opposing defense:
- Ginola and Kewell will threaten with pace, ability to beat players and get to the byline and cross;
- When Sutton and McBride pose a dynamic physical prescense in the box and will be able to make strong cuts to the ball in the air;
- Or if Kewell or Ginola are shown inside they have the ability to shoot well from distance or link off the strikers (McBride in particular) or Djorkaeff;
- And if a defense gets stretched wide or high Djorkaeff and Vieira are players who will be able to make good late runs and deliver a cutting edge in the opponents box;
I will concede that the one part of the lineup that isn't supremely balanced is the strike partnership. Neither of McBride or Sutton possess world class pace or the ability to get the ball down and beat one or two players in this league. However, given that Ginola and Kewell will be operating high up the pitch - the attack as a whole will be well balanced. Clever and strong through the center, dynamic and fast out wide.
Mentally, much will be made of the unreliability and flakiness of the likes of Kewell and Ginola. I think we will get the best out of them on this team though - because of the strength of character of those around them. Friedel, Desailly, Vieira, Djorkaeff and McBride provide a great leadership spine - model professionals who will inspire through word and deed on the pitch, and help to foster a good atmosphere in the dressing room. The likes of Finnan, Hinhcliffe, Walker and Sutton are good honest pros who will work very hard by default. Is Ginola going to sulk when he has three countrymen on the team who work their balls off and can point to numerous medals and awards earned throughout their career? Are we going to see the worst of Kewell when he isn't the biggest star on show on this team and he's got a great group working their asses off around them? Maybe - but I have to think that if we were ever to see them at their most dedicated, it would be while playing in this team.
Tactical Flexibility:
For me, writing about my default strategy or way of playing is fairly redundant. In a cup format against teams that also have exceptional players any idea that you can simply have the one gameplan and ignore the specific threats posed by the opposition is folly. Instead, I think the question is how many of the bases can your eleven cover?
With the Ball:
Sutton and McBride provide a great first outlet. They will tirelessley run the channels and are both adept at battling for the hopeful ball and holding it up before bringing oncoming support into play. On top of that Ginola and Kewell are the types to get high up the pitch quickly to feed off and support the strikers if they have to be hit early. As such, the combination of strength and guile in the middle and pace out wide means that we will be able to counter attack and break quickly and directly. We carry a quick strike threat.
If a team sits off us, Desailly is an above average user of the ball from the back; Vieira and Djorkaeff will make good use of possession; and Finnan and Hinchcliffe are decent crossers and long range passers. There is no reason to think that we will be unable to hold the ball for stretches and wait for things to develop up the pitch. Then, in terms of making things happen up top, we obviously will have the quality out wide to test a team that packs the center. And if a team is weak through the middle, Djorkaeff / McBride / Sutton should be good enough to make it happen. Furthermore, we can employ all passing styles - direct to the strikers or with raking balls down the flanks for Kewell and Ginola to run onto. Or a more ponderous approach working off Djorkaeff as a link in the middle.
Whatever the team, I think that we will be able to look at them and see ways in which chances can be created.
Without the Ball:
Starting with the goalkeeper, Friedel is an excellent shot stopper who is also good against high balls. He rarely makes errors and is a commanding presence at the back who will keep up a high level of chat to those defending infront of him. Having a solid guy behind a backline inspires confidence. And when that guy will additionally make great blocks that he has no right to make - the overall effect is essentially that of a 'get of jail free' card.
Desailly and Walker amount to a great all round pairing. First and foremost they read the game well and take up excellent defensive positions. They have top end pace and acceleration, and are well able to make well timed and effective tackles. Obviously they are very solid in the air. And finally, they have that extra 'X factor' for players in their position - they are brave and determined individuals who will strive to make the heroic block or last ditch interception.
On either side, Finnan and Hinchcliffe are good defenders. Finnan especially is a great cover fullback. He is constantly alert and switched on and has a good eye for when to come inside and help out the center backs / pick up a loose player in a broken passage of play, etc. Hinchcliffe is an old school English defender - he will not be one to negate defensive responsibilities or shirk from sticking his body on the line when required.
So we have a good goalkeeper and backline, but what sticks this team over the top defensively is having the physical beast that is Vieira mopping things up infront of them. A phenomenal athlete with a great understanding of the game and a spikey personality - Patch provides world class protection for this team.
Up the pitch, McBride and Sutton are the type of players to really harass and press opposing backlines. Teams are not going to find it easy to build slowly from the back, and errors in execution from deep lying players in possession will be forced and punished by my strikers.
The weakness of this team therefore is the lightweight trio of Djorkaeff, Ginola and Kewell. Djorkaeff tries very hard, and won't sell the team short because of effort. As noted earlier, I can only believe that Ginola and Kewell will be in an environment that spurs them to work their hardest. Even then, they are not going to be great tacklers or defenders in the air. The players around them more than make up for that though - once they don't entirely switch off and give up on marking assignments / not run back and harry players etc, etc. I'm banking that they won't.
Hanging on / Going all out
If I'm holding onto a lead, Sutton's ability to play center back and Desailly's previous time as a defensive center mid is useful:
Friedel
Finnan
Sutton
Walker
Hinhcliffe
Desailly
Vieira
Ginola
Djorkaeff
Kewell
McBride
And if we're really desperate, you can leave Kewell and Ginola all the way up there with the two fullbacks pushed up - as the pace and athleticism of Desailly and Walker is such that they won't completely crumble for a short period. Plus, if you are lumping it late on - McBride and Sutton are kinda ideal. Particularly with a clever player with good technique when striking the ball in Djorkaeff to be in and around the edge of the box to pounce.
Setpieces:
This is a definite strength of the team imo. Djorkaeff and Hinchcliffe are great strikers of a dead ball - with Kewell and Ginola not being too shabby. We have great height and ability in the air throughout the team, with the five of Walker, Desailly, Vieira, McBride and of course Sutton being an asset in defending or attacking corner kicks and set pieces.
As far as penalties are concerned, Djorkaeff or Vieira will be well able to take them.
Conclusion:
Whether this team is the best or not is for others to decide. I think we'll be able to compete against everyone, and I won't fear matching up with anyone.
MNG vs. Lloyd 12 votes
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