Is ballyfermot college worth going to for radio?

Matt88

I would like a career in radio but im not sure which way to go about it. Is this course worth doing or would i be better just trying to get some volunteer work at a radio station?

connundrum

Both I'd say, if you can manage it.

Several people from my graduating class are now working in radio, but they all put in the legwork of working part time (pro bono) as well as studying in Ballyer.

Several people managed fine without going near Ballyer too.

Depends on if you can spare the two years or not!

catch--22

I did the two year radio course in BCFE and then went on to do their media degree and would strongly recommend it. The course content we covered is all very relevant and have been a huge help in working in the industry.

Finding placement in local or community radio is also essential. The qualification you get in BCFE is a great but you need experience as well!

Sputnik101

I know someone that did two radio production courses and was about to go to Ballyfermot except they got something better and ever since has sworn that the two courses they did were a complete waste of time. The best route to go is get practical experience in a station and stop wasting time in colleges.

Leaderbored

This someone...is she involved in radio at the moment?

monkeyfudge

I went there myself many a year ago... I hated it anyway. I'd like to imagine it's improved since then, certainly can't have gotten any worse.

Sputnik101

Leaderbored wrote: »

This someone...is she involved in radio at the moment?

Yes he is actually. Why do you ask?

tony1kenobi

I worked in radio for years. If you want to go down the route of producer/researcher/journalism maybe a college course would be useful......if you just want to dj or do engineering I'd say try to get into a station,even if it's volutary. You'll pick it up as you go along.

Not for too long though.

Leaderbored

Sputnik101 wrote: »

Leaderbored wrote: »

This someone...is she involved in radio at the moment?

Yes he is actually. Why do you ask?

My my, that's some pretty definite emphasis you got there.

Apologies if my misinterpretation has offended you in some way, but in my defence, the content and structure of Friday's message #4 (before you edited it tonight after posting message #7) led me to believe that it was a female you were referring to.
The initial wording of your story reminded me of that of a poster who now posts on another board, and to be honest, going on her message board output, I'd personally be very wary of following any advice she had to offer. She's quite possibly very nice, but it would appear that she's not nearly as clever or worldly-wise as she'd like to believe.

But, not to worry. You're referring to a completely different person. Who is definitely male. 100% not female. Defo. So that's that.

Anyway, You wanted to know why I should ask.
I asked if they were currently involved because knowing whether this person is currently involved in radio or not would be pretty important in judging as to whether they are qualified to give advice on how to advance one's radio career, wouldn't you agree?

I mean :

"College is pointless for getting into radio, get some practical experience at a station!" says Mr X, Senior researcher, Drivetime on xxx radio

sounds much better than :

"College is pointless for getting into radio, get some practical experience at a station!" says Ms X, Checkout operator, Tesco

(no disrespect intended towards Tesco staff, obviously. I just happened to be looking at a tesco branded bag while typing. )

andmoreagain

I would agree with connundrum that if you have the time and money a formal qualification would be a good thing. There are of course people who are lucky enough to go into the business directly and do very well, but these days I think they are few and far between. It might help to talk to some people in the business if you can, just to see what things are like behind the scenes and maybe get an idea of whether it would suit you or not, before you jump in.

2fivers

Leaderbored wrote: »

Knowing whether this person is currently involved in radio or not would be pretty important in judging as to whether they are qualified to give advice on how to advance one's radio career, wouldn't you agree?

Bang on! I cannot emphasise this strongly enough : For god's sake, before taking advice on your future, at least check out who it is you're taking advice from.

"Alleged" friends of friends who appear on message boards solely to back up a now discredited source?

Ignore!

Matt88

Thanks for the advice all round. I wasn't sure about going to college because im 21. I know i am by no means old but everyone else seems to get an early start at these things. I thought a radio station would be more likely to let me in to get some experience if i had this under my belt. What way should i go about getting some voluntary work? Is it just a case of loads of e-mails/Letters and phone calls or is it better to drop in?

captain caveman

Try google community stations, places like Liffey sound, Dublin City fm, near90 or some hospital stations (do they still have these?), they'd be most likely to let you have a look around and get involved... Bigger commercial stations take work ex, but you'd probably end up shredding paper for a week.

All I'll say is best of luck and be prepared to work for little or no money to start!

The Muppet

I'd advise you to do both College and work experience on stations if you feel you have the qualities to be a radio presenter. There is a science to presenting that you will learn a lot quicker with instruction.

Sputnik101

Leaderbored wrote: »

My my, that's some pretty definite emphasis you got there.

Apologies if my misinterpretation has offended you in some way, but in my defence, the content and structure of Friday's message #4 (before you edited it tonight after posting message #7) led me to believe that it was a female you were referring to.
The initial wording of your story reminded me of that of a poster who now posts on another board, and to be honest, going on her message board output, I'd personally be very wary of following any advice she had to offer. She's quite possibly very nice, but it would appear that she's not nearly as clever or worldly-wise as she'd like to believe.

But, not to worry. You're referring to a completely different person. Who is definitely male. 100% not female. Defo. So that's that.

Anyway, You wanted to know why I should ask.
I asked if they were currently involved because knowing whether this person is currently involved in radio or not would be pretty important in judging as to whether they are qualified to give advice on how to advance one's radio career, wouldn't you agree?

I mean :

"College is pointless for getting into radio, get some practical experience at a station!" says Mr X, Senior researcher, Drivetime on xxx radio

sounds much better than :

"College is pointless for getting into radio, get some practical experience at a station!" says Ms X, Checkout operator, Tesco

(no disrespect intended towards Tesco staff, obviously. I just happened to be looking at a tesco branded bag while typing. )

You need to be very careful about what you imply on a public forum as it sounds to me you are intent on starting an argument! I don't know anyone on this board nor do I know anyone on another board and apolgies if my poor spelling and grammar led you to think that but you are mistaken and I think you should accpet that at this stage and move on! You're sounding sad and pathetic the way you keep bringing it up honestly!

I had edited my previous post due to a spelling error btw not to mae it clear what sex the person I was talking about was I didn't mention whether the person was male or female until you implied it because I didn't think it mattered to much.

I would highly value this persons opinion though hence posting what they told me!

Sputnik101

Matt88 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice all round. I wasn't sure about going to college because im 21. I know i am by no means old but everyone else seems to get an early start at these things. I thought a radio station would be more likely to let me in to get some experience if i had this under my belt. What way should i go about getting some voluntary work? Is it just a case of loads of e-mails/Letters and phone calls or is it better to drop in?

On a serious note it doesn't matter to a radio station how many degrees or bits of paper from colleges you have if you're not good at the radio job they won't hire you. Practical work experience would be of far more benefit!

Leaderbored

Sputnik101 wrote: »

it sounds to me you are intent on starting an argument!

Might I suggest that it you've interpreted these sounds incorrectly then?

Sputnik101 wrote: »

You need to be very careful about what you imply on a public forum!

You can ease off on the attempted legalese there. I wasn't implying a thing. I was quite grounded in factual statement. My point was that if someone was throwing out advice that could potentially change the course of someone else's career, then the person receiving this advice (through a third party) should be aware if this undisclosed source had any degree of authority in the field of radio.

Your original post advising not to go to college failed to clarify this, rendering the advice dubious, at best. No reflection on you or your friend, but you have to realise that this is the internet - Misinformation R us - : For all we know the opinion you put forward as someone else's could have come from an unemployed binman with no experience in broadcasting, your imaginary friend or your cat.

Sputnik101 wrote: »

you are mistaken and I think you should accpet that at this stage and move on! You're sounding sad and pathetic the way you keep bringing it up honestly!

These are the confusing parts - Why are you attacking the poster? I mean "At this stage?" (I posted once.)

And I keep bringing what up exactly? For the benefit of other users, if you arent going to clarify what it is that I'm supposed to keep "bringing up" that annoys you so much, you could at least hold off on cluttering up the thread by venting what appears to be pent-up anger in the form of personal abuse directed towards me.

My original point was that you weren't clear in your first post, and your "my mate says college is a waste of time" advice was, frankly, completely useless without reference to your source's current or past experience in radio.

If you want to enter into coherent debate about the topic in hand, that's fine. If you want a name calling session with lots of !!!!'s, I'm not interested.

tbh

I don't really see what the identity of sputniks friends has to do with the worth of the college class. Can we please restrict comments to the topic in questions - thanks.

Leaderbored

I think I've been misinterpreted - Identity is something I have absolutely no interest in, I was asking whether the person in question had any involvement in radio. No names required.

The OP asked whether they should bother going to college, the respondent claimed that an associate was of the opinion that college is a waste of time, and that practical experience is the way to go.

My point was that although generally all contributors are welcome on a message board, this was a relatively serious decision in the OP's life that was being debated, and this opinion could only really be helpful to the OP if it was made clear whether or not the associate in question had a degree (pardon the pun) of experience in radio.

I wasn't demanding names and addresses, just wondering whether there was something that could be offered which would confirm whether the advice was from someone who's input could have genuine relevance to the thread, or an armchair expert who's views may not be as important when making a career defining decision.

I realise that I'm not the emperor of the thread, but barstool analysis can be dangerous, and I just thought clarification may help the OP.

Apologies if that wasn't clear.

The Muppet

Sputnik101 wrote: »

On a serious note it doesn't matter to a radio station how many degrees or bits of paper from colleges you have if you're not good at the radio job they won't hire you. Practical work experience would be of far more benefit!

You're much more likely to be good if you know what pds will be listening/looking for when looking for new on air staff, You will be taught that at college. Bits of paper can be very useful in getting a pd to take your application seriously, Bits of paper alone will not get you a gig you must have the talent to back it up.

Sputnik101

The Muppet wrote: »

You're much more likely to be good if you know what pds will be listening/looking for when looking for new on air staff, You will be taught that at college. Bits of paper can be very useful in getting a pd to take your application seriously, Bits of paper alone will not get you a gig you must have the talent to back it up.

You're much more likely to get pd's attention if you're good at what you do radio wise you don't need a bit of paper to do that. Get into radio be it community or whatever and get your experience that way much more beneficial. You'll learn more in work experience than you'll ever learn in a school environment especially if you're 21. It's not old but when you think about how long it can take a person in radio to work up to decent salaries etc it is you need to be getting in early not wasting two years in a classroom!

2fivers

The Muppet wrote: »

You're much more likely to be good if you know what pds will be listening/looking for when looking for new on air staff, You will be taught that at college. Bits of paper can be very useful in getting a pd to take your application seriously, Bits of paper alone will not get you a gig you must have the talent to back it up.

Good points.

What makes the PD happy at Highland radio may not be what the PD is looking for at Spin, and vice versa.

An appreciation of what is basically required across the range of stations and genres can be picked up from college courses. It would be difficult to pick up practical knowledge on the same scale even if you are lucky enough to get work-ex at one single station.

Many PD are indeed looking for talent, but new talent, not necessarily raw talent. They want someone out of the package and ready to go right now. It is unlikely they will hire someone on the grounds that they will be brilliant in a year or so, even for work experience.

What I mean by that is, since the pirate scene is no longer as vibrant a scene for DJ training as it was at certain times in the past, opportunities to prepare in the real world are minimal, so someone with natural patter and knowledge might possibly do well, but someone with natural patter and knowledge, who also has learned how to drive a desk and also can fall back on the multitude of other skills picked up on a college course, and also has gained on-air experience on this course and also has studied there under a selection of experienced broadcasters, producers & technicians will probably do better.

MarkN

2fivers wrote: »

Many PD are indeed looking for talent, but new talent, not necessarily raw talent. They want someone out of the package and ready to go right now. It is unlikely they will hire someone on the grounds that they will be brilliant in a year or so, even for work experience.

If a PD is looking for someone ready to go, they won't be looking to colleges for them ! How can someone leaving college with little or no experience not sound raw? Everyone starts somewhere.

Of course PDs see potential in someone and hire them on that basis - they just don't give them breakfast.

OP - I went to BCFE and was in the two year course. Halfway through, I dropped out as I was offered a full time job in a station. I'm now in management.. take from that what you will. The course won't do you any harm at all, if things are quiet on the radio offers banging down the door then the course will be good for you, it's never a bad thing to have a bit of paper under you but if something comes along that you can prove yourself in and it's going to get you the same result as you hope from Ballyfermot - a job in radio - then it might not be worth doing.

2fivers

MarkN wrote: »

If a PD is looking for someone ready to go, they won't be looking to colleges for them ! How can someone leaving college with little or no experience not sound raw? Everyone starts somewhere.

I wasn't suggesting that PD's are waiting in Ballyfermot Car park, engine's running and boots open on graduation day to bundle graduates into their cars and drive them directly to a waiting microphone, I was suggesting that having undertaken a college course may put one in a better position to negotiate your way into a station having mastered the basics, putting you one step ahead of the fresh faced chatterbox who has not yet sat behind a desk.

By virtue of the very fact that the OP has come here with his question shows that he may naturally be an apprehensive person. Apprehension is not necessarily a quality one wants their DJ's to display, so perhaps you'd agree that a training course (while not suitable for all, as your own case bears out : You were clearly ready for a full time gig at the time you dropped out. The OP may not be) may be suitable for some, specifically, those who may be undeniably talented, but need a confidence boost & the edges knocked off before taking the next step?

The Muppet

MarkN wrote: »

OP - I went to BCFE and was in the two year course. Halfway through, I dropped out as I was offered a full time job in a station. I'm now in management.. take from that what you will. The course won't do you any harm at all, if things are quiet on the radio offers banging down the door then the course will be good for you, it's never a bad thing to have a bit of paper under you but if something comes along that you can prove yourself in and it's going to get you the same result as you hope from Ballyfermot - a job in radio - then it might not be worth doing.

I agree with that but do you think you have got the break if you were not in college? You can be sure being in college helped. For anyone trying to get a foot in door a cv with college on it is always going to get more attention over one without.

MarkN

No the course didn't help me at all - but I was lucky to have been with my employer for 3 years already so whether I had a qualification or not didn't really mean much.

I can't even say I have anything to show for going to BCFE as I didn't finish it. There's lots of people from my class that did finish it though and have ended up in great jobs - not just radio, record industry, TV etc etc..

catch--22

Just looking at it from a general employers point of view (any job - not just media) showing you had the drive and ability to obtain a 3rd level qualification stands to you a lot.

If I worked in management in my station (I don't) and was looking for new talent, a candidate who had shown the desire to gain a formal qualification would already be at an advantage.

As I mentioned before, I believe it is all about a balance between experience and formal eduction. I was 3 years in a community station before I went to BFCE and learnt loads there that I still hold to practice today - but there was a vast area of radio that I only learned (and gained experience in) once I completed my diploma and degree in BCFE.

catch--22

MarkN wrote: »

I can't even say I have anything to show for going to BCFE as I didn't finish it. There's lots of people from my class that did finish it though and have ended up in great jobs - not just radio, record industry, TV etc etc..

I think you touched on a point there Mark as well - I met loads of people through my course in BCFE that work in the industry today (radio, print, TV) that I'm still in touch with. Another reason to attend BCFE.

Leaderbored

MarkN wrote: »

No the course didn't help me at all

I can't even say I have anything to show for going to BCFE as I didn't finish it.

Perhaps you don't feel that the course gave you anything of benefit, but if I were a PD, and you had contacted me during your time at Ballyfermot, I would certainly have noted that you were interested enough in the industry to sign up for further education in that field.

MarkN

Indeed you would but the experience I had gained already would've stood to me more so that's the point I'm making here. If you don't have a job in radio and you're thinking of doing the course then by all means, do it, if you already have a foot in the door in the area you want to work in then the course may not get you anything more than what you have.

Matt88

God this has turned into a right old debate. I have been to BCFE for an interview and have been offered a place. Im pretty sure that i will be taking it. I am aware that at 21 two years in a class might not be the best option but i really think i could learn a lot which i could use in the industry as well as make some contacts for the future. Dont get me wrong if i could skip the whole college thing and walk into a job i would even if it was at a low level for no money.

I am trying to get some E-mails etc out to some stations at the moment to try and get someone to take me on. Not too sure what i should put on them

Cheers again:)

Fuzzy Clam

Bear in mind that with the current economic climate, stations aren't going to be falling over themselves to recruit new staff so a couple of years in college and a piece of paper at the end may not be a bad thing. If your prepared to work for little money, you may be able to get part time work in a station anyway.

Sputnik101

Matt88 wrote: »

God this has turned into a right old debate. I have been to BCFE for an interview and have been offered a place. Im pretty sure that i will be taking it. I am aware that at 21 two years in a class might not be the best option but i really think i could learn a lot which i could use in the industry as well as make some contacts for the future. Dont get me wrong if i could skip the whole college thing and walk into a job i would even if it was at a low level for no money.

I am trying to get some E-mails etc out to some stations at the moment to try and get someone to take me on. Not too sure what i should put on them

Cheers again:)

Try voluntary stations

petals

For what it's worth I did a course in Kairos which is similar but higher than Ballyfermot I'm told. I learnt very little looking back on the course. We did get experience with Marantz and running our own station but I've learnt far more through the work ex I've been doing for the past six months than by the course. I was actually surprised at how little I knew when I set about doing the work ex after coming out of the college.
Alot of radio people seem to have spent time in Ballyfermot though and I think it does look good on the cv if you can show you've spent time in a college as well!

2fivers

petals wrote: »

For what it's worth I did a course in Kairos which is similar but higher than Ballyfermot I'm told.

Higher as in "closer to God"?

Isn't Kairos' diploma course accredited in Christian communications?

(Not that I'm dissing Christianity or anyone who sits the course or anything. Just wondering how this course is rated higher than Ballyfermot's)

MarkN

Ballyfermot is the one that is recognised more than any by the radio industry anyway if you are looking to be a "DJ".

petals

2fivers wrote: »

Higher as in "closer to God"?

Isn't Kairos' diploma course accredited in Christian communications?

(Not that I'm dissing Christianity or anyone who sits the course or anything. Just wondering how this course is rated higher than Ballyfermot's)

Lol Kairos runs a Postgraduate diploma called Christain Communication and Development... it has nothing to do with religion it's because the St. Pat's college funds the course. Out of a years lectures we had three lectures related to the church the rest was media production.

It's higher than Ballyfermot because of the fact that Ballyfermot isn't a postgraduate diploma.. It's fetac level 5 or something whereas Kairos is level 8 or 9. Ballyfermot told me this themselves. I applied last year got accepted but didn't do the course in the end.

Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking the college thing I'm just telling my experience