10 Dead in German School Shooting

Indie18

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7936817.stm

At least 10 people have been killed in a shooting at a school in south-west Germany, police say.
Most of the dead are thought to have been pupils at the Albertville secondary school in Winnenden, north of Stuttgart.

Unconfirmed reports say the gunman, a 17-year-old former pupil wearing black combat gear, was arrested after fleeing into the town centre.
Police, rescue teams and fire fighters are at the school.

"We have to assume a death toll in the double-digits," a spokeswoman for the interior ministry in the state of Baden-Wuerttemberg told the Reuters news agency.

"These are students," she said.
The editor of the local paper, Frank Nipkau, told television channel N-TV that eight pupils and two adults were among the dead.

The incident is reported to have begun around 0945 (0845 GMT). About 1,000 children are thought to attend the school, in the town some 20km (12 miles) north-east of Stuttgart.

I Was only talking this morning after the incident in Alabama how you only really hear of this stuff in America. What goes through somebodys head when they do things like this.

ScumLord

Indie18 wrote: »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7936817.stm




I Was only talking this morning after the incident in Alabama how you only really hear of this stuff in America. What goes through somebodys head when they do things like this.

It's a wonder the schools don't pick up on these things before hand. But I suppose how do you tell a normal grumpy teen from a deranged one?

Is it easy enough to get guns in Germany? I remember being fairly surprised seeing a gun shop in the middle of a shopping centre in Berlin.

It wasn't me!

ScumLord wrote: »

It's a wonder the schools don't pick up on these things before hand. But I suppose how do you tell a normal grumpy teen from a deranged one?

Is it easy enough to get guns in Germany? I remember being fairly surprised seeing a gun shop in the middle of a shopping centre in Berlin.

They have a pretty elaborate system, whereby you have to do written, oral and practical exams to receive a licence. However, they're a culture much more familiar with firearms than any in the British isles. There are several shooting ranges in most towns and Germany is the home of sporting shooting in Europe.

It's a great tragedy and my sympathies are with the victims.

yellowcurl

Dear god, there really seems to be a huge increase in this kind of stuff in the last few years isn't there?

Really annoys me when they can't seem to find a reason for it, so blame music and computer games. Sure if that was true we'd all be out killing each other!

Biggins

Madness, pure madness.

Love2love

I use to live about 30 mins from there. I'd never imagine that, that would happen there.

Terry

Most likely bullied.

Lesson of the day: Don't bully someone who has access to a gun.*



*I used to be bullied. Then I started throwing milk bottles at the bullies. They stopped bullying me after that.

_blank_

Terry you monster

Wagon

Indie18 wrote: »

What goes through somebodys head when they do things like this.

Maths.

ScumLord

All that lovely, lovely milk. Gone.

_blank_

Indie18 wrote: »

What goes through somebodys head when they do things like this.

Bullets

They've shot the perp.

Des

Des wrote: »

Bullets

They've shot the perp.

I hate the way they always get shot dead.Fcuking cowards.

Indie18

Wagon wrote: »

Maths.

Well I have to admit, when I was in school maths made me feel homicidal too.

Manic Moran

Indie18 wrote: »

I Was only talking this morning after the incident in Alabama how you only really hear of this stuff in America.

And Canada. And Finland. And Germany (this most recent incident is certainly not the first there). There's no place that's really immune to a mass killing, but it's so much easier to just project the problem onto America and refuse to believe that it can happen where you are. One of the mothers of a surviving kid said it all: "I thought this sort of thing only happened in America" Well, guess what. Humans are humans and suffer from the same range of emotions and derangements in the rest of the world as well as the US.

Is it easy enough to get guns in Germany? I remember being fairly surprised seeing a gun shop in the middle of a shopping centre in Berlin.

It's actually somewhat depressing for an American to go into a German gun shop because of the variety of firearms on offer, many of which are not legal in the US. You can't carry a gun around with you in Germany so the impression is that Germany is not a gun-culture country, but shooting is a popular sport. Indeed, shooting is a popular sport in most of Europe, Britain and Ireland are actually the exceptions in Europe, not the norm, and even at that, it's only a recent change. Shooting used to be a common sport in both Ireland and England within my lifetime.

NTM

Ross_Mahon

Terrorists Win

Manic Moran

Ross_Mahon wrote: »

Terrorists Win

Enter gratuitous Counter-Strike reference

NTM

acontadino

scumbag. probably a feckin freak that went out of his way not to be liked and then claims society has shunned him. go listen to rammstein you peice of ****.

Turnip2000

Will there come a day when these secretly armed guards like on some flights, will patrol schools/Colleges? Like kindergarden cop but real?

thebigcheese22

Fully expected this from America but not from Germany.

An awful tragedy

Manic Moran

Fully expected this from America but not from Germany.

I refer back to my earlier comment...

NTM

Fozzie Bear

Manic Moran wrote: »

And Canada. And Finland. And Germany (this most recent incident is certainly not the first there). There's no place that's really immune to a mass killing, but it's so much easier to just project the problem onto America and refuse to believe that it can happen where you are. One of the mothers of a surviving kid said it all: "I thought this sort of thing only happened in America" Well, guess what. Humans are humans and suffer from the same range of emotions and derangements in the rest of the world as well as the US.

Very true. Remember the nut who slaughtered all those young kids in Dunblaine in the UK about 10 or more years ago. It just takes the right kind of fruit cake and something to push them over the edge and you have a tragedy like this.

I think America obviously has a huge population and is always going to have a higher percentage of these things happening and the copy cat effect too. Maybe with Bush out of office it might be something Obama would look into tightening up. I think Clinton tried before but came up against huge opposition from the NRA/Gun manufacturers and the right wing politicians and was it Charlton Heston too??? Anyways I think America might be a little bit more open to the idea of tighter controls now and Obama might be just the man to do it.

Terry

ScumLord wrote: »

All that lovely, lovely milk. Gone.

They were empties.
Don't tell the Greens.

Terry

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

Very true. Remember the nut who slaughtered all those young kids in Dunblaine in the UK about 10 or more years ago. It just takes the right kind of fruit cake and something to push them over the edge and you have a tragedy like this.

I think America obviously has a huge population and is always going to have a higher percentage of these things happening and the copy cat effect too. Maybe with Bush out of office it might be something Obama would look into tightening up. I think Clinton tried before but came up against huge opposition from the NRA/Gun manufacturers and the right wing politicians and was it Charlton Heston too??? Anyways I think America might be a little bit more open to the idea of tighter controls now and Obama might be just the man to do it.

"From my cold dead hands."
He's dead now.

Fozzie Bear

Terry wrote: »

"From my cold dead hands."
He's dead now.

Ya thats right. I remember on a stage holding a musket or something over his head saying that. Bloody idiot.

JohnGalt

This sort of thing doesn't bother me at all. I like it in fact and I find it interesting.

Manic Moran

I think Clinton tried before but came up against huge opposition from the NRA/Gun manufacturers and the right wing politicians and was it Charlton Heston too???

Actually, he came up against huge opposition from the populace as a whole: The Democrats were royally turfed out of power largely as a result of the '94 legislation which was about six weeks before the elections.

Maybe with Bush out of office it might be something Obama would look into tightening up

Not a chance. See also my comments here. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59374838&postcount=11

NTM

Kiith

How do people still support the widespread availabilty of guns after seeing things like this? Genuine question, and not trying to start a flame war. Do they know where he got the guns from? Cause surely there is no reason, ever, for a 17 year old to have access to purchase guns.

Manic Moran

Do they know where he got the guns from?

It was one of his father's. Apparently he owned seventeen firearms of various types. I've got some catching up to do.

How do people still support the widespread availabilty of guns after seeing things like this?

Like anything, they can be used, and misused. A guy in San Francisco last year went on a rampage killing one and putting another 14 in hospital. His weapon of choice, a Honda Pilot SUV. Calls to ban cars? Of course not.

January this year, a guy in Belgium went a-killing in a creche, killed two kids, an adult, and wounded an additional ten. He used a knife. Knife bans, maybe? You can't buy cutlery in the UK unless you're 18, so some people have considered it. But on a practical level, useless.

Or, of course, you can just make up your own pipe bombs out of whatever happens to be available (PVC pipe, fertiliser, nails). If someone really has a hankering to kill someone, they will.

The vast and overwhelming majority of firearms owners use them responsibly and without trouble. Just as the vast majority of farmers don't make fertiliser bombs. Then again, if the fertiliser is misused, you get Manchester or Oklahoma City. You suggest restricting the freedoms of many for the sake of those rare exceptions. Drunk-driving kills far more people in Europe than firearms do. There's certainly little 'practical' utility for alcohol down the pub, but people realise that it's people being idiots or downright disobedient of the laws that are the trouble, so there's no call to ban booze.

NTM

Overheal

Only in Germany.

Fozzie Bear wrote:

Maybe with Bush out of office it might be something Obama would look into tightening up. I think Clinton tried before but came up against huge opposition from the NRA/Gun manufacturers and the right wing politicians and was it Charlton Heston too??? Anyways I think America might be a little bit more open to the idea of tighter controls now and Obama might be just the man to do it.

You can enforce tighter gun control but as argued above what does that do to control the audacity of the killings, really? People will just find other methods. If you're hellbent on killing someone access to a gun isn't going to stop you. My stepfathers Bassist from his cover band was murdered in the 90s by his landlord with a claw hammer after driving 45 minutes to get to the house. Killed the cat, too.

Kiith

Manic Moran wrote: »

Like anything, they can be used, and misused. A guy in San Francisco last year went on a rampage killing one and putting another 14 in hospital. His weapon of choice, a Honda Pilot SUV. Calls to ban cars? Of course not.

January this year, a guy in Belgium went a-killing in a creche, killed two kids, an adult, and wounded an additional ten. He used a knife. Knife bans, maybe? You can't buy cutlery in the UK unless you're 18, so some people have considered it. But on a practical level, useless.

Or, of course, you can just make up your own pipe bombs out of whatever happens to be available (PVC pipe, fertiliser, nails). If someone really has a hankering to kill someone, they will.

The vast and overwhelming majority of firearms owners use them responsibly and without trouble. Just as the vast majority of farmers don't make fertiliser bombs. Then again, if the fertiliser is misused, you get Manchester or Oklahoma City. You suggest restricting the freedoms of many for the sake of those rare exceptions. Drunk-driving kills far more people in Europe than firearms do. There's certainly little 'practical' utility for alcohol down the pub, but people realise that it's people being idiots or downright disobedient of the laws that are the trouble, so there's no call to ban booze.

NTM

I see where you are coming from, but the difference (at least the way i've been looking at it) is that guns are pretty much designed for one thing....and thats killing. Thats it. Surely there is no need for anyone, responsible adult or not, to have 17 guns?

Overheal

Kiith wrote: »

I see where you are coming from, but the difference (at least the way i've been looking at it) is that guns are pretty much designed for one thing....and thats killing. Thats it. Surely there is no need for anyone, responsible adult or not, to have 17 guns?

Someone has evidently never seen Tremors.

Kiith

Overheal wrote: »

Someone has evidently never seen Tremors.

Touché :P

Manic Moran

Overheal wrote: »

Someone has evidently never seen Tremors.

Surely there is no need for anyone, responsible adult or not, to have 17 guns?

Need, no. But this is a free society, since when does need ever come into anything? How much of what you do on a daily basis do you need to do?

I also fail to see how the numbers come into question. I have a mere five firearms, less than a third of this German lad. (I know there are other Boardsies with larger collections than mine.) However, I can only shoot two at once and only one with any accuracy. I would wager that the owner of 17 firearms can similarly only shoot two at once, and only one with any accuracy.

Also depends on the sports being partaken in. Look at the variety of shooting sports available in Ireland alone, which is not currently a gun-friendly country. You can get a firearms license for Olympic Air Rifle. Then you get a .22LR. Perhaps get a Trap shotgun. Get a different one for Skeet. Move forward to air pistol, .22 pistol, and practical pistol. You have a couple of full-bore disciplines as well. And that's on the range. You would use yet another rifle to go deer hunting, and another for varminting. I guess you could go pheasant hunting with either the trap or skeet guns, but I don't know enough about that to know. So that's ten entirely different firearms to do ten entirely different sports right there. Is it your contention that people would have to pick and choose certain sports at the cost of being denied the ability to partake in others, simply because you think that having more guns than you can shoot at once is too much?

And note also that despite Ireland having, except in the last thirty years, a very robust shooting tradition, the safety and law-abidingness rates are absolutely impeccable.

NTM

Nodin

Kiith wrote: »

I see where you are coming from, but the difference (at least the way i've been looking at it) is that guns are pretty much designed for one thing....and thats killing. Thats it. Surely there is no need for anyone, responsible adult or not, to have 17 guns?

Why not? They're only a problem if misused the same as any other tool. There was two polish fellas stabbed to death there with a screw driver, do I have to hand over all phase testers and phillips heads in my poesession? The majority of stabbings take place in or around a domestic setting with kitchen knives, yet the vast amount of waffle that takes place about same concerns expensive hunting knives and their availability.....

The price of a free society is that now and again some eejit will abuse it. Its quite rare in most countries, and most try to avoid kneejerk reactions to it.

Manic Moran wrote:

And note also that despite Ireland having, except in the last thirty years, a very robust shooting tradition, the safety and law-abidingness rates are absolutely impeccable.

...which, ironically, hasn't stopped increasingly restrictive legislation.

wyk

Let's not forget that the US has the 2nd amendment, which the Supreme Court recently ruled meant the individual has the right to own firearms for protection, hunting, and sport.

Barring that, remember the US was founded in battle, and that it's huge expanse and quick expansion were founded in battles over and over again. As many as not, those battles were fought by civilians, and not simply the military. There are, to date, at LEAST 200 million guns in the US. Likely far more than that since Glock imports around 4 mil a year alone, and nearly all retired police weapons are resold to the public to fund their police departments new weapons. So, unfortunately, criminals have easy access to guns and knives. Because of this, most States allow their civilians to carry guns for self defense. If you made it illegal for civilians in general to own firearms, do you think those 200 million are going to disappear? Of course not, nor will the knives, hatchets, baseball bats etc.

California and Washington DC have some of the strictest gun control in the states - they also have some of the worst crime and murder rates. Utah and Texas have very lenient gun laws, they also have less violence than many European States. So go figure.

Once you zap the guns, then only the police and government will have them, which is the MAIN reason for the 2nd amendment - to enable the citizens to fight the government if it becomes tyrranical. You better guaran-damn-tee the US gov would go tyrant the moment we were all unarmed. That's almost a given - just look at the anti US threads.

Anywho, it's as simple as this: Handguns are for my neighbors when they get sticky hands or too brave. Assault Rifles are for me to use on the government when they go bonkers, or for riots like they had in LA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKTw-UHalZc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2KsHBFqcsQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkDcrwwQ8cU

Sometimes yer on yer own.

WYK

Manic Moran

wyk wrote: »

California and Washington DC have some of the strictest gun control in the states

We're not that bad over here. Now, Illinois, on the other hand...

NTM

Lockstep

It seems 4chan enters the story.


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