What should Ireland's overall BER target rating be

motherfunker

I am a final year building services engineering student who has spent the last few years doing pages and pages of U-value calculations, energy usage calculations, renewable energy reports etc etc. I am also half way through doing the BER course as a module in our final year and from my semi limited knowledge of the whole area I find the BER system to be as full of holes as a badly built house. The SEI have completely let themselves down by accepting the hundreds, perhaps even thousands of unqualified people who companies like <snip> churned out, flooding the market and denying those who actually were in a position to train and work as assessors the chance to make a decent living from it.
I heard recently that the number or registered assessors was now nearly 4000, thats 154 assessors per county. A guy I know who did it said there was a hairdresser on his course. Is it me you should be taking offence with or is it the SEI that you should be taking action against, if I had spent the amount of money you guys have spent getting this far I would not be happy atall.
As far as the BER being a government tool to make people think they are doing something for the environment, I fully stand by that comment. Can you tell me one environmental benefit to having your house assessed. The promotion of so called renewable energy technologies is a joke, can somebody please tell me what exactly a renewable energy technology actually is, taking into account the embodied energy connected with bringing these technologies or fuels to a stage where we can use them and feel good about ourselves with a slap on the back and a nice grant from the SEI. If the government wants to make changes, why not impliment strict laws like Norway(I think) who 20 years ago made it compulsory for all new windows fitted in the country had to be double glazed, argon filled with a certain U-value, Germany has introduced similar measures. Why not ban unnecessary 4x4's, why not aim for a nuclear power station some time in the future, it is the cleanest source of power around, we already use some of France's nuclear generated power, why not just produce our own. Why has Ireland moved further away from it's proposed Kyoto goals instead of closer to them. They back the BER becuase it makes them look like they are doing something positive, they couldent even be bothered to get it up and running in time.
If the BER is meant to promote sustainability and renewable energy, how come a 10 bedroom house with a heated swimming pool using god knows hom many kW of power a year can get a better rating that a modest 3 bed semi where the owners are careful about their money and try not to leave lights burning all over the house when not in use.
Perhaps you can explain to me how a good BER rating will make a difference to this persons apartment.



Edit, MF... please do not refer to specific company names, that is a breach of rules.

Syd

sinnerboy

motherfunker wrote: »

The SEI have completely let themselves down by accepting the hundreds, perhaps even thousands of unqualified people who companies like **** churned out, flooding the market and denying those who actually were in a position to train and work as assessors the chance to make a decent living from it.

Agree 100%

motherfunker wrote: »

I heard recently that the number or registered assessors was now nearly 4000, thats 154 assessors per county.

No thats the approx no who could register i.e. have passed the Fetac exam . The register is closer to 1700 . With approx on 600 of them being active .Sorry I tried to post a link but the SEI site is as responsive a drunk donkey ( again ) tonight .

motherfunker wrote: »

A guy I know who did it said there was a hairdresser on his course.

In my case - a florist

motherfunker wrote: »

As far as the BER being a government tool to make people think they are doing something for the environment, I fully stand by that comment. Can you tell me one environmental benefit to having your house assessed.

BER arises from EU law - we HAVE to implement it

motherfunker wrote: »

The promotion of so called renewable energy technologies is a joke, can somebody please tell me what exactly a renewable energy technology actually is, taking into account the embodied energy connected with bringing these technologies or fuels to a stage where we can use them and feel good about ourselves with a slap on the back and a nice grant from the SEI.

Again 100 % agree . Tens of millions have been wasted in subsidies for those lucky enough to be able to build there own homes . (see item 530 )

https://www.cahill-printers.ie/Debates/DDebate.aspx?F=DAL20071113.XML&Ex=All&Page=49

A tiny fraction only has been spent on subsiding items like loft insulation , lagging jackets , draft proofing , by charities , to low income homes - to people who sometimes have to choose between heating - and eating

Deputy Eamon Ryan: Dail debate Aug 08

Increasing energy costs pose particular difficulties for vulnerable consumers, including the elderly and those on low incomes. A number of schemes are in place to assist those on low incomes in regard to fuel and electricity costs as well as to enhance the key contribution of energy efficiency to alleviating fuel poverty. The Revised Estimate for the Department of Social and Family Affairs includes provision of €158 million in respect of fuel allowance and electricity and natural gas allowances. I have provided €4 million to fund the warmer homes scheme in 2008. This scheme supports the installation of energy efficiency measures, including attic insulation, draught proofing, hot water cylinder insulation and wall cavity insulation. The scheme is co-ordinated by Sustainable Energy Ireland and is delivered principally through community-based organisations. Over 9,000 homes have benefited from the scheme since its introduction in 2003.

motherfunker wrote: »

If the government wants to make changes, why not impliment strict laws like Norway(I think) who 20 years ago made it compulsory for all new windows fitted in the country had to be double glazed, argon filled with a certain U-value, Germany has introduced similar measures. Why not ban unnecessary 4x4's, why not aim for a nuclear power station some time in the future, it is the cleanest source of power around, we already use some of France's nuclear generated power, why not just produce our own. Why has Ireland moved further away from it's proposed Kyoto goals instead of closer to them.

I agree with the essence of this too ( b regs have required double glazing for some time ) . I think we need to go nuclear too .

motherfunker wrote: »

They back the BER becuase it makes them look like they are doing something positive, they couldent even be bothered to get it up and running in time.
If the BER is meant to promote sustainability and renewable energy, how come a 10 bedroom house with a heated swimming pool using god knows hom many kW of power a year can get a better rating that a modest 3 bed semi where the owners are careful about their money and try not to leave lights burning all over the house when not in use.
Perhaps you can explain to me how a good BER rating will make a difference to this persons apartment.

Well they have to "back" it - being EU law .


WE as a country need to worry less about new B or A rated houses - and face the legacy of the existing stock . Perhaps a 10 year plan to ensure that every house in the land was at least C3 grade would be a difficult challenging but worthwhile task

Oh and the new HES scheme is not a good start

http://www.constructireland.ie/vb/showthread.php?t=682

.

sinnerboy

Mods - hands up guilty me for taking the thread way away from the op - but can certain posts here be separated out to start a new thread ?

Title - perhaps "What should Ireland's overall BER target rating be ?" - or words to that effect

sydthebeat

motherfunker wrote: »

I am a final year building services engineering student who has spent the last few years doing pages and pages of U-value calculations, energy usage calculations, renewable energy reports etc etc. I am also half way through doing the BER course as a module in our final year and from my semi limited knowledge of the whole area I find the BER system to be as full of holes as a badly built house. The SEI have completely let themselves down by accepting the hundreds, perhaps even thousands of unqualified people who companies like <snip> churned out, flooding the market and denying those who actually were in a position to train and work as assessors the chance to make a decent living from it.
I heard recently that the number or registered assessors was now nearly 4000, thats 154 assessors per county. A guy I know who did it said there was a hairdresser on his course. Is it me you should be taking offence with or is it the SEI that you should be taking action against, if I had spent the amount of money you guys have spent getting this far I would not be happy atall.
As far as the BER being a government tool to make people think they are doing something for the environment, I fully stand by that comment. Can you tell me one environmental benefit to having your house assessed. The promotion of so called renewable energy technologies is a joke, can somebody please tell me what exactly a renewable energy technology actually is, taking into account the embodied energy connected with bringing these technologies or fuels to a stage where we can use them and feel good about ourselves with a slap on the back and a nice grant from the SEI. If the government wants to make changes, why not impliment strict laws like Norway(I think) who 20 years ago made it compulsory for all new windows fitted in the country had to be double glazed, argon filled with a certain U-value, Germany has introduced similar measures. Why not ban unnecessary 4x4's, why not aim for a nuclear power station some time in the future, it is the cleanest source of power around, we already use some of France's nuclear generated power, why not just produce our own. Why has Ireland moved further away from it's proposed Kyoto goals instead of closer to them. They back the BER becuase it makes them look like they are doing something positive, they couldent even be bothered to get it up and running in time.
If the BER is meant to promote sustainability and renewable energy, how come a 10 bedroom house with a heated swimming pool using god knows hom many kW of power a year can get a better rating that a modest 3 bed semi where the owners are careful about their money and try not to leave lights burning all over the house when not in use.
Perhaps you can explain to me how a good BER rating will make a difference to this persons apartment.

motherfunker,

thanks for outlining where your views come from, like SB i agree with a vast majority of what you are saying however, regarding your first post in this thread....

"Why do you care what rating you got, they are completely pointless unless you want to sell or rent your apartment"

That is a thoroughly incorrect attitude to have. The Building Energy Rating scheme, as flawed as it is, is

1. a million times better than having no scheme at all
2. NOT aimed at the seller, but aimed at the purchaser. This is fundamental and needs to be understood.
3. is a good tool for someone who is actually energy conscious and wants to alter their building. this of course should be done in consultation with a building science professional.

The BER is not a tool for people thinking they are doing something for the environment.
Its a comparative rating, that is all. If you are referring to DEAP then that is another issue. Again, as flawed as DEAP is, and there's a whole thread dedicated to this elsewhere, it is still better than having no methodology at all. If a person is truly energy conscious and they want specific calculations done on their building, they should NOT use DEAP. that is a widely held view among building energy professionals. The PHPP software is a much more specific methodology, although it also is flawed. Other software include wufi and others.