Power Meter

bananamansgay

hi folks...

I originally posted this in the triathlon thread, but no resposes so far

..... i did one sprint triathlon last year, doing 2 sprints this year, possibly an olympic. im trying to take my approach to training a lot more serous, i am reading the triathlon trianing bible.... some of you may be familiar with it.... and i can already see that last year i over trained and was probably suffing from burn out when i competed in the race.

well im going to purchase a heart monitor and was looking at getting a power monitor for the bike too.... has any one any views on them? or recommed where to get one? i cant seem to find them on the sites id normaly use (cyclesuperstore.chainreactions)

id really appreciate some feed back

cheers

scottreynolds

bananamansgay wrote: »

hi folks...

I originally posted this in the triathlon thread, but no resposes so far

..... i did one sprint triathlon last year, doing 2 sprints this year, possibly an olympic. im trying to take my approach to training a lot more serous, i am reading the triathlon trianing bible.... some of you may be familiar with it.... and i can already see that last year i over trained and was probably suffing from burn out when i competed in the race.

well im going to purchase a heart monitor and was looking at getting a power monitor for the bike too.... has any one any views on them? or recommed where to get one? i cant seem to find them on the sites id normaly use (cyclesuperstore.chainreactions)

id really appreciate some feed back

cheers

Since money is no option -- not if you want a power meter.

I'd suggest renting a power meter from here ( http://www.cyclepowermeters.com/ ) for a few months. There's an irish company developing one as well -- brim brothers but theere's no indication of a release date. My opinion is that the power ops one is the best option but look through this forum as people discuss the different options.

I haven't used a power meter but will probably buy one in the future and did a bit of research.

For HRM etc I reckon the garmin 705 is about the best option going for cycling as it would also work with the power meter from cycle ops. There's a benefit from recording everything in one place.

If its for triathlon then I recommend a watch version HRM so you can use it running but if you do down that route you would need a way to monitor the power output while cycling. Polar 800CX looks pretty good for triathlon.

Lumen

SRM cranks = useful for multiple wheels, expensive.
Powertap hub = useful for multiple bikes, cheaper.

If they were the same price (or I had unlimited budget) I'd go for the cranks, since you then get a choice of wheels, and getting a wheel rebuilt would be more of a hassle with the Powertap hub.

It gets really expensive if you want to keep the weight down.

Lightweight Powertab hubs built on a HED Ardennes wheelset comes in at €1900, and the SRM FSA K-Force Light crankset is €2629.90 from the SRM site. In both cases the computer is extra.

Not exactly budget-friendly.

tunney

Lumen wrote: »

SRM cranks = useful for multiple wheels, expensive.
Powertap hub = useful for multiple bikes, cheaper.

If they were the same price (or I had unlimited budget) I'd go for the cranks, since you then get a choice of wheels, and getting a wheel rebuilt would be more of a hassle with the Powertap hub.

It gets really expensive if you want to keep the weight down.

Lightweight Powertab hubs built on a HED Ardennes wheelset comes in at €1900, and the SRM FSA K-Force Light crankset is €2629.90 from the SRM site. In both cases the computer is extra.

Not exactly budget-friendly.

SRM Durace is just as quick to swtich between bikes as a Powertap.

Lumen

tunney wrote: »

SRM Durace is just as quick to swtich between bikes as a Powertap.

I have a Truvativ Elita 2.2 triple on one bike, and a Veloce compact double on the other.

tunney

Lumen wrote: »

I have a Truvativ Elita 2.2 triple on one bike, and a Veloce compact double on the other.

A triple and a compact - are you trying to rise me?

Lumen

tunney wrote: »

A triple and a compact - are you trying to rise me?

Did I mention the mudguards and the baby seat clamp?

scottreynolds

tunney wrote: »

SRM Durace is just as quick to swtich between bikes as a Powertap.

cool -- Lets see you change a crank in 10 seconds like the pro mechanics do on telly. :eek:

Being someone who doesn't have one, yet, I can merely speculate but you are an ace mechanic.

tunney

scottreynolds wrote: »

cool -- Lets see you change a crank in 10 seconds like the pro mechanics do on telly. :eek:

Being someone who doesn't have one, yet, I can merely speculate but you are an ace mechanic.

I'm a competent mechanic. However my wife could change a Durace crankset in under a minute (two tops). Thats why the Durace SRM is the one to get. The rest cannot be changed as quickly and changing other cranks as regularly would damage them. Also them don't need to "bed in".

Two 5mm allen bolts and a the dust cap to remove, cranks slide off, slash them on the other bike and put the dust cap on and then tighten the two bolts!

scottreynolds

tunney wrote: »

I'm a competent mechanic. However my wife could change a Durace crankset in under a minute (two tops). Thats why the Durace SRM is the one to get. The rest cannot be changed as quickly and changing other cranks as regularly would damage them. Also them don't need to "bed in".

Two 5mm allen bolts and a the dust cap to remove, cranks slide off, slash them on the other bike and put the dust cap on and then tighten the two bolts!

Surely a Campag Ultra-Torque set would be the same?

scottreynolds

What about the IBike one has anyone done any research into that. Its just a computer than uses smart physics.

tunney

scottreynolds wrote: »

What about the IBike one has anyone done any research into that. Its just a computer than uses smart physics.

Its a waste of handlebar space.

ryan_sherlock

I have a new PowerTap SL 2.4 laced with Sapim CX-Ray (€3 each) spokes to a Mavic Open Pro rim (32 hole) for sale.

The Hub bearings (now ceramic) and electronic internals/freehub/computer are brand new from Saris (a sponsor this year) - basically a new hub - the rim has about 7,000k on it - spokes are perfect.

There are some pictures at the start of this post: http://ryansherlock.blogspot.com/2008/01/christmas-2007.html

€900

Lumen

ryan_sherlock wrote: »

I have a new PowerTap SL 2.4 laced with Sapim CX-Ray (€3 each) spokes to a Mavic Open Pro rim (32 hole) for sale.

Mind me asking why you're selling it?

ryan_sherlock

I have an SRM Pro on my road bike now (for use with my Zipp 404s).

I'm using a PowerTap SL Disc on the mountain bike now. Really interesting to see HOW different road biking and mountain biking really is. In an MTB race, unless there are long climbs (5min +) you are basically either coasting, endurance pace or anerobic.

blorg

Everything I have read does suggest that the new Hollowtech cranks are very easy to swap, I will be doing it myself when I get back! @tunney- are 105, Ultegra and Dura-Ace not equally easy? I have a Ultegra SL compact and a Dura-Ace standard.

Lumen

ryan_sherlock wrote: »

I have a new PowerTap SL 2.4 laced with Sapim CX-Ray (€3 each) spokes to a Mavic Open Pro rim (32 hole) for sale....
€900

Is it correct to say that the superceded 2.4 (7200 series) is not ANT+ compatible, so you have to use the Powertap computer rather than a Garmin or whatever?

blorg

@ryan- would you have a weight on that wheel? Those spokes are pretty light, right? Also, is it Garmin 705 compatible?

ryan_sherlock

The weight is 1kg spot on (hub, rum, spokes, rim tape) as far as I remember. I told Saris to update it to Ant+ when they had the hub but I didn't check it when I got back. I'm currently racing in Cyprus so I wont be able to check until Tuesday.

If it is not compatible, all it takes is a firmware upgrade to update it $99 as far as I remember but I could probably get a deal on that if needed.

With the ceramic bearing upgrade - it's basically the same as the new SLC+ hub ($2100 retail).

ryan_sherlock

Oh, and yes - they are light spokes. Pretty much as blingy as they come. I got those because, they were bladed (aero), light and very stiff. Robin Seymour built up the wheel.

tunney

blorg wrote: »

Everything I have read does suggest that the new Hollowtech cranks are very easy to swap, I will be doing it myself when I get back! @tunney- are 105, Ultegra and Dura-Ace not equally easy? I have a Ultegra SL compact and a Dura-Ace standard.

Ultegra are the same, not sure on 105.

SRM only modify the Dura-Ace.

ryan_sherlock

SRM actually take a DuraAce crank and mill out the internals for the electronics. That's why it is so expensive in relation to the Pro version while giving the same accuracy. (Due to the form of the crank, it needs more strain guages to give the same accuracy as the Pro version)

DuraAce is super expensive and just a bit stiffer so I went with the Pro. I'm mainly an MTBer so I was not overly concerned with have the 'perfect' setup.

tunney

ryan_sherlock wrote: »

SRM actually take a DuraAce crank and mill out the internals for the electronics. That's why it is so expensive in relation to the Pro version while giving the same accuracy. (Due to the form of the crank, it needs more strain guages to give the same accuracy as the Pro version)

DuraAce is super expensive and just a bit stiffer so I went with the Pro. I'm mainly an MTBer so I was not overly concerned with have the 'perfect' setup.

Its a good bit stiffer than the Pro version, although unless you're a sprinter no biggie.

For me it is the ease of shifting between TT and road bikes that sold me on the DA.

Yeah the normal pro has four strain gauges - the DA eight.

bananamansgay

thanks for the feedback (most of which went over my head!)

looks like iv been priced out of a power meter, but im sure i can structure training better this year and improve with out a meter.... the more i do triathlons the more i want to improve so it may be an option next year... thanks again.

scottreynolds

bananamansgay wrote: »

thanks for the feedback (most of which went over my head!)

looks like iv been priced out of a power meter, but im sure i can structure training better this year and improve with out a meter.... the more i do triathlons the more i want to improve so it may be an option next year... thanks again.

Yes--- thats the exact reason you have many people talking about poewr meters and so few owning them.

tunney

scottreynolds wrote: »

Yes--- thats the exact reason you have many people talking about poewr meters and so few owning them.

Read in an interview with the designer and ower of SRM that only 1400 SRM systems have been sold since he started the company. (This was last September or so) - mad.

blorg

The big problem with SRM is that you can't get it in a triple... If it was available I am sure it would sell like hot cakes. Probably the reason I know more people with Powertap wheels.

Raam

Why is the ibike allegedly so bad?

albob

Yeah, the ibike intrigues me. Good idea. However a lot of the "non-biased" reviews had a nuber of criticisms about
-rain
-rough roads
-Cornering
-real-time lag
-decending (still gives power output unles you also have the Cadence meter)

But I dont know if all/any of these issues have been fixed in the newest generation of the iBike. $199 seems a great price for something that would be ~5% accurate ALL the time. But if it only works on a Tuesday just after a full moon when the wind is blowing from the east and you have rubbed snail slime on your manhood then $1 would be too much!

Chips Lovell

tunney wrote: »

Read in an interview with the designer and ower of SRM that only 1400 SRM systems have been sold since he started the company. (This was last September or so) - mad.

I'm really surprised at that. They must have given out the same number for free given the amount of pros now using them.

blorg wrote: »

The big problem with SRM is that you can't get it in a triple... If it was available I am sure it would sell like hot cakes. Probably the reason I know more people with Powertap wheels.

You're trying to wind Tunney up aren't you?

Raam wrote: »

Why is the ibike allegedly so bad?

It calculates power based on speed, wind resistance, gradient etc. I think the problem is that it can give you the same reading if you are in the drops or on the hoods, and you may be putting out less power in the drops. Then there is the issue of drafting.

The iBike is interesting because it is potentially the most affordable option and least fiddly in terms of shifting between bikes. However, I think the first generation of them were truly terrible and its reputation was kind of ruined. The newer ones are meant to be much better, but probably still not up to the standard of SRM or Powertap. There's an interesting long piece about it on the Competitive Cyclist website. They sell them but haven't been afraid to slate their suppliers in the past.

Raam

I'd be tempted to go for an ibike. My livelihood ain't depending on the thing, so if it isn't 100% accurate then it's no biggie.

Chips Lovell

Raam wrote: »

I'd be tempted to go for an ibike. My livelihood ain't depending on the thing, so if it isn't 100% accurate then it's no biggie.

Actually, I'd say consistency is more important than accuracy. For example, if a powermeter consistantly reports 10 watts+ on the real figure it should be no biggie as long as you're uninterested in comparing your numbers with someone else, as opposed to something that reports variations up and down of the real number.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Polar was better from this point of view. Not as accurate as an SRM or Powertap, but fairly consistant, if I recall. Would need to look that up and check later when I get a chance.

blorg

I'd read up on it a bit more before getting an iBike, I have read enough suggestions that it is innacurate in enough situations to be essentially useless for the purpose you would be getting it for. Rough roads and rain are listed as big problems and we don't exactly lack them around Ireland.

albob

+1 for Raam to buy the new gen iBike and then to o give a full and frank review of it here. No point in us all getting stung!
At if its great, you'll be a hero.

Raam

albob wrote: »

+1 for Raam to buy the new gen iBike and then to o give a full and frank review of it here. No point in us all getting stung!
At if its great, you'll be a hero.

no such luck. It takes me ages to decide to buy something.

albob

Ah well, worth a try

danburke

Can you get ramp tests done in a lab in ireland?

If so do ye guys know how much they are?

ryan_sherlock

Or, even more interestingly get an iBike and an SRM and they (the iBike computer) will calculate on the fly aerodynamic drag... Find your most aero position (that's comfortable). Okay, now we are getting a little more complex

Very very interesting for TT people that already have a powermeter.

IM0

tunney wrote: »

I'm a competent mechanic.... Thats why the Durace SRM is the one to get.... The rest cannot be changed as quickly and changing other cranks as regularly would damage them.

care to explian why changing the other cranks regularly (I presume you mean the amateur version?) would damage them
Im well up on engineering speak and materials and tolerences, so be as detailed as possible if you could - Im in the market for an SRM so, I'd like to know your opinion. cheers. I just hate someone making a statement like that without being able to back it up thats all

IM0

blorg wrote: »

The big problem with SRM is that you can't get it in a triple... If it was available I am sure it would sell like hot cakes.

No offence to anyone (people waste their money on lots of other FAR more useless things :pac: ) but if you have a tripple there isnt really any need for a power meter at all is there? - rhetorical Q by the way! chances are your power wont improive at all, and you would be shocked to see how weak you were with the watts display and want to upgrade to a double (again) and so thats prob why there dont do them in tripples :P

lukester

Oh dear

tunney

me@ucd wrote: »

care to explian why changing the other cranks regularly (I presume you mean the amateur version?) would damage them
Im well up on engineering speak and materials and tolerences, so be as detailed as possible if you could - Im in the market for an SRM so, I'd like to know your opinion. cheers. I just hate someone making a statement like that without being able to back it up thats all

Since you asked so nicelySRMs - changing between bikes

IM0

tunney wrote: »

Since you asked so nicelySRMs - changing between bikes

nice try s(t)unney...but Im afraid Im up on the mouseover trick for links so, like you have just confirmed you're FOS :rolleyes: - word to the wise dont slate stuff without backing it up, just makes you look foolish

MadHatter

And they're off...

This'll be a good one :pac::pac::pac:

Home:Ballyhoura

Sorry for dragging this topic back up, I haven't read the thread but I came across this excellent extensive article on Power Meter's and great comparisons too. Some of you might have seen it already, I think it is really very good!

It takes a while to get through but is very interesting in the end, I garuntee you it's worth it!

tunney

me@ucd wrote: »

nice try s(t)unney...but Im afraid Im up on the mouseover trick for links so, like you have just confirmed you're FOS :rolleyes: - word to the wise dont slate stuff without backing it up, just makes you look foolish

I'd forgotten about this thread.

DA needs no bedding in as no strain is put on RH crank during removal.
Likewise for possible damage to strain gauges during constant changes. Plus any damage done to bolts, threads etc etc caused by the constant swapping are done to the LH crank which is standard DA and can be swapped out. Try fubaring the RH crank of your SRMs and you won't be a happy camper.

If you look at the below page only the DA have this property
http://www.srm.de/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=3&Itemid=148

You may be "up on engineering speak and materials and tolerences" - but use of google, cop on and manners aren't your forte.