Duddy v Lee

Daroxtar

This has probably been done before but seein as i'm a relative newcomer here i just thought i'd ask. Who do you think would win? I think lee has a definate advantage in power but i'd back duddy over the distance. Last year i'd have said lee, but duddy seems to have upped his game now that hes gotten away from irish jokes ropes

Duddy has a serious chin, eastman hit him with a few savage shots, vanda hit him with everything he had but he still stayed upright. Reminds me a bit of collins, but with a slight edge in finnesse if not as much of a rough house brawler.

IMO Lee was unlucky to be stopped when he was and i dont think his chin is that suspect. He was still throwing punches and a bit more nous might have got him holding through the round and possibly ended up winning against vera. Stewart has a tendancy to overlook defensive tactics with big punchers (hearns and lewis anyway)but he might have put in a bit of work with andy in the last year that'll stand to him.

Personally, i think it would be the biggest Irish fight in living memory and potentially a cracker. Two decent fighters fighting for national pride. Could be a war.

Anyway, right now I pick duddy on points, maybe a split decision. That could change but for now i'll stick with him. What do ye reckon?

ShaunD

Daroxtar wrote: »

This has probably been done before but seein as i'm a relative newcomer here i just thought i'd ask. Who do you think would win? I think lee has a definate advantage in power but i'd back duddy over the distance. Last year i'd have said lee, but duddy seems to have upped his game now that hes gotten away from irish jokes ropes

Duddy has a serious chin, eastman hit him with a few savage shots, vanda hit him with everything he had but he still stayed upright. Reminds me a bit of collins, but with a slight edge in finnesse if not as much of a rough house brawler.

IMO Lee was unlucky to be stopped when he was and i dont think his chin is that suspect. He was still throwing punches and a bit more nous might have got him holding through the round and possibly ended up winning against vera. Stewart has a tendancy to overlook defensive tactics with big punchers (hearns and lewis anyway)but he might have put in a bit of work with andy in the last year that'll stand to him.

Personally, i think it would be the biggest Irish fight in living memory and potentially a cracker. Two decent fighters fighting for national pride. Could be a war.

Anyway, right now I pick duddy on points, maybe a split decision. That could change but for now i'll stick with him. What do ye reckon?

I cannot see Duddy out pointing Lee.
Lee is too slick and would out manouvre Duddy and probably knock him out to be honest, Lee has some power in his punches and is also highly accurate and those are the shots that will KO John Duddy.
Lee also has a decent chin as was evident in his fight with the bigger Brian Vera so I do not see Duddy stopping Lee either.
Duddy has been in some tough battles with some not so great punchers like Smichet and Campas but he has never faced anyone of Lee's skill before.
Anyway it is a moot point as Duddy is moving to light middleweight and Lee will most likely move to super middle in the future.

Daroxtar

I dont know if duddy moving down will be as good an idea as he thinks it is. Its one thing being bigger than your oppponent, but he's not a big puncher, he relies on volume and he could find himself weight drained. Lee is definatley heading for super middle alright and could indeed ko duddy but right now i still think duddy could beat him on points.As i said,last year i'd have picked lee but i think duddy has shown serious signs of overall improvment.

ShaunD

The reasoning behind Duddy fighting at light middle is that at middleweight he is on the small side and his power might have greater effect at a lighter weight.
It is also not as competitive a devision as middleweight which has Pavlik and Abraham at the top of the devision.
I don't believe Duddy has anything that Lee could not handle, Duddy has worked well behind his jab in recent fights but his defense and lateral motion is still a bit sloppy and this could be the key to a Lee KO.
I see Lee getting past Duddy's defenses and stopping him in the latter rounds.
In my opinion if Lee can not beat Duddy, he is not that great a prospect.

cowzerp

ShaunD wrote: »

In my opinion if Lee can not beat Duddy, he is not that great a prospect.

I agreed with all of your post bar this, If they are to fight there will be a loser and they'll still be as good after as they where before so in my opinion the only thing known will be which 1 is better.. both will still be prospects..

Thyats probably why they will not fight till they have too..

dlofnep

Personally I think Duddy would wreck Lee. Duddy would eat all of Lee's shots up, and keep pushing forward. Andy Lee wouldn't be able to cope with the pressure, ala Brian Vera.

walshb

Lee can win; but I see stamina and pace being his downfall here.
Duddy won't do the trick with one shot. Duddy doesn't possess the power
to KO Lee; who has a good chin. Lee's stamina is where
I see this fight being won or lost.

If Lee's stamina improves, he has the skills and talent to win and hurt
Duddy en route to a points win. Over 10 rds, Lee is favorite, over 12, I go with Duddy! If Duddy can get inside and press non stop, he will wear Lee down late

ShaunD

cowzerp wrote: »

I agreed with all of your post bar this, If they are to fight there will be a loser and they'll still be as good after as they where before so in my opinion the only thing known will be which 1 is better.. both will still be prospects..

Thyats probably why they will not fight till they have too..

My reasoning behind this comment is more to do with how I rate Lee. I like many others think Lee is the real deal and besides some stamina issues, which can be ironed out, is a far more convincing prospect than Duddy.
So I think that if Duddy were to beat Lee, given all that Lee has going for him, youth, power, boxing ability, and so on, that would bring Lee down in my estimation.
I like both lads and think that they are both fantastic boxers (for different reasons) but Lee wins this in convincing fashion if it ever happens.

Daroxtar

I cant see duddy stopping lee but i definately think he'd outwork him. I bought into manny stewarts assesment of lee at first and i really hope he does deliver. He showed great promise but he really slipped up in the vera fight by not throwing half enough leather and having no defense.

Duddy on the otherhand seems to be improving more especially in defense, he stopped blocking shots with his face for starters, and has a grittier style with a higher workrate so until i see lee stepping up the pace then i still fancy duddy to grind out a points win.

I agree that they're both fine fighters though and nice guys aswell and i wish them both huge success.

If it is a thing that lee moves up and duddy moves down in weights then i'd be asking who you fancy 2 years down the road,lee or sutherland? Maloney rates sutherland as highly as stewart rates lee, and while lee is definately more polished at the mo darren has fierce heavy paws on him. It might have a more realistic chance of happening than lee v duddy. Irish boxing is looking quite good at present:)

ShaunD

Daroxtar wrote: »

I cant see duddy stopping lee but i definately think he'd outwork him. I bought into manny stewarts assesment of lee at first and i really hope he does deliver. He showed great promise but he really slipped up in the vera fight by not throwing half enough leather and having no defense.

Duddy on the otherhand seems to be improving more especially in defense, he stopped blocking shots with his face for starters, and has a grittier style with a higher workrate so until i see lee stepping up the pace then i still fancy duddy to grind out a points win.

I agree that they're both fine fighters though and nice guys aswell and i wish them both huge success.

If it is a thing that lee moves up and duddy moves down in weights then i'd be asking who you fancy 2 years down the road,lee or sutherland? Maloney rates sutherland as highly as stewart rates lee, and while lee is definately more polished at the mo darren has fierce heavy paws on him. It might have a more realistic chance of happening than lee v duddy. Irish boxing is looking quite good at present:)

You're right about that, the current crop of boxers are the best we have ever had in this country.
I'm not sure who will go further out of Lee and Sutherland or who would win if they ever fought, but they both have bright futures.
There is still a lot we don't know about Sutherland such as, his chin, stamina, etc but all signs look good at the moment.
How about John Duddy V Jamie Moore, now that would be a cracker and a more even match up than Duddy V Lee.

walshb

Daroxtar wrote: »

I cant see duddy stopping lee but i definately think he'd outwork him. I bought into manny stewarts assesment of lee at first and i really hope he does deliver. He showed great promise but he really slipped up in the vera fight by not throwing half enough leather and having no defense.

Duddy on the otherhand seems to be improving more especially in defense, he stopped blocking shots with his face for starters, and has a grittier style with a higher workrate so until i see lee stepping up the pace then i still fancy duddy to grind out a points win.

I agree that they're both fine fighters though and nice guys aswell and i wish them both huge success.

If it is a thing that lee moves up and duddy moves down in weights then i'd be asking who you fancy 2 years down the road,lee or sutherland? Maloney rates sutherland as highly as stewart rates lee, and while lee is definately more polished at the mo darren has fierce heavy paws on him. It might have a more realistic chance of happening than lee v duddy. Irish boxing is looking quite good at present:)

Lee didn't slip up a all in the Vera fight; his management shafted him by
matching him against a super middle. Vera is a super middle really and was
4 lbs heavier on weigh in and god knows how much heavier
come fight night. Lee made middle for that fight and Vera was 162 lbs.

Not on at all and Lee showed tremendous courage and toughness
in the bout.

Daroxtar

If John does move down then Moore would probably be a good fight for him. It'd be a good guage of his power. I reckon john would be well able for him though. Moore is a lot closer to him in size alright and is undeniably a classy operator, but i still want to see a moore rematch with macklin. That was one of the best fights i saw in years and while moore won, i thought macklin came seriously close until he got flattened.

Daroxtar

walshb wrote: »

Lee didn't slip up a all in the Vera fight; his management shafted him by
matching him against a super middle. Vera is a super middle really and was
4 lbs heavier on weigh in and god knows how much heavier
come fight night. Lee made middle for that fight and Vera was 162 lbs.

Not on at all and Lee showed tremendous courage and toughness
in the bout.

Jesus, i didn't realise there was that much in it. Maybe stewart bought into his own hype? I heard him say somewhere that the only fighter he knew who could handle lee was Klitchko. I know trainers like to talk up their man but that was some statement. I cant fault the lads bravey whatsoever and i remain a huge fan, that said, 6'2" or whatever lee is , is massive for middle and he should have been able to bulk up a bit before fight time too. If you're looking at moving up to super and making an impact, then the likes of vera should be your bread and butter.

I just thought he was niave in trying to land nice punches but not in any great numbers, as if he thought he could knock vera out cleanly, and then getting drawn into a streetfight with a stockier rougher fighter- never a clever plan. And from once he got hit he really didn't seem to have a plan B at all. He should have been peppering him with punches from distance instead of just the nice 1-2s. But, i suppose mgmt had a lot to do with that so andy cant be entirely blamed.

walshb

I'm sure Lee did bulk up; but the fight was made at middle and Lee's team
allowed the opponent to come in at super middle. Scandalous and wrong

In top class pro boxing, every ounce can make a difference and Vera is a tough and durable and strong man. He aint no tomato can and his bout with
James Kirkland shows this. Kirkland is a class act and a cut above Lee and he went 8rds before stopping Vera.

Lee was put into a fight with Vera when Vera was weighing above the
middle limit. Lee is not superman and couldn't afford at that stage to be giving away anything; yet he did.

Daroxtar

After watching Lee against sipos i think he's gone back a step. He looked stiff and slow and with the exception of the knockdown and a big right in the 3rd he did very little to make me think he has the talent that i thought he had. Duddy would just outwork him over the distance.
Macklin could be the best of the 3. He has power and workrate.

Big Ears

Daroxtar wrote: »

After watching Lee against sipos i think he's gone back a step. He looked stiff and slow and with the exception of the knockdown and a big right in the 3rd he did very little to make me think he has the talent that i thought he had. Duddy would just outwork him over the distance.
Macklin could be the best of the 3. He has power and workrate.

Lee hasn't gone back, this was just his best opponent to date.
I've often picked Macklin and Duddy to beat Lee and the majority have disagreed with me, I'm not sure they will now.

Macklin is the best aswell, he was awesome against Elcock.

Daroxtar

Sipos was a decent fighter alright and i wont take anything away from him at all. I just think andy didn't look too great. I was far more impressed with him 2 years ago than now. Macklin said he'd love to fight andy and on current form he'd be right to fancy his chances. I will say that ring rust seemed to have a part to play last night and it might stand to andy and hopefully he'll stay a bit more active too in the coming months. I still think he's a great fighter but he had a bit of an iffy night.

joepenguin

yeah put it down to rust and see how he gets on in his next ones. he's a fair bit behind duddy and macklin in terms of experience yet.

Johnduddy

Big Ears wrote: »

Lee hasn't gone back, this was just his best opponent to date.
I've often picked Macklin and Duddy to beat Lee and the majority have disagreed with me, I'm not sure they will now.

Macklin is the best aswell, he was awesome against Elcock.

Big ears dyou reckon Macklin would beat Duddy ?

Big Ears

Johnduddy wrote: »

Big ears dyou reckon Macklin would beat Duddy ?

Unless Duddy can out war him, and I'm not sure he can then I think Macklin definitely wins. Despite Duddy's improvements Macklin is technically superior to Duddy and Macklin is a damn good brawler aswell. He's the bigger puncher and I think despite being the former Light-Middle he'd be the bigger man.

So it would be a Macklin pick from me alright.

dlofnep

Duddy would wreck Macklin also. Macklin is a good fighter, but he will never be a world champion. Duddy has the capacity to be a world champ, albeit probably at light-middle.

Rob113

dlofnep wrote: »

Duddy would wreck Macklin also. Macklin is a good fighter, but he will never be a world champion. Duddy has the capacity to be a world champ, albeit probably at light-middle.

id personally love to see Duddy go all the way and make world champ. I think maybe one of the best things that happened to him was all the talk of fighting Pavlik going away. Pavlik would prob have destroyed him. If duddy is going to make the step down he should do it soon and start to make a name for himself at that weight.
On the Duddy / Lee debate - its a hard one to call. As Calzaghe said 'styles make fights' and i dont think these two would go well together. Lee is too awkward and duddy just likes to bang. Dont think it would be a great fight and would just eliminate one of our great white hopes.
Let Duddy step down a weight, Lee step up and keep Sutherland progressing and hopefully in another couple of years we could have real contenders at light, middle and super to cheer on.

gscully

Daroxtar wrote: »

Sipos was a decent fighter alright and i wont take anything away from him at all. I just think andy didn't look too great. I was far more impressed with him 2 years ago than now. Macklin said he'd love to fight andy and on current form he'd be right to fancy his chances. I will say that ring rust seemed to have a part to play last night and it might stand to andy and hopefully he'll stay a bit more active too in the coming months. I still think he's a great fighter but he had a bit of an iffy night.

I'm not sure how big a part it played in his performance against Sipos, but I have it on good authority that Andy Lee was unable to spar in the entire week leading up to the fight because his eye opened up in training. Sorry, no links...just word from someone in Andy's family.

I hope this eye injury doesn't become a problem. It really seems that Andy's pro-career has been stalling ever since the Vera fight. He really needs to be fighting quite regularly now.

nacho libre

i'd love to see Macklin fight Jamie Moore again before a match with Lee or Duddy.

ah,sure

Lee said in the sun today that Sipos weighed in close to light-heavyweight. I think Sipos was 11st 9 while Lee was 11 6.

But the thing is your man Sipos was in the middle of a weights programme when approached late on to take the fight and had no real boxing preparation (so he said, he may have been lying of course)

I think at present Duddy shades it, he's just not getting hurt in this one nearly regularly enough for Lee to win.

Big Ears

nacho libre wrote: »

i'd love to see Macklin fight Jamie Moore again before a match with Lee or Duddy.

Would be a great fight undoubtedly but they're in different weight divisions now and I can't see them fighting in the foreseeable future. Moore would have to outgrow Light-Middleweight first.

walshb

ah,sure wrote: »

Lee said in the sun today that Sipos weighed in close to light-heavyweight. I think Sipos was 11st 9 while Lee was 11 6.

But the thing is your man Sipos was in the middle of a weights programme when approached late on to take the fight and had no real boxing preparation (so he said, he may have been lying of course)

I think at present Duddy shades it, he's just not getting hurt in this one nearly regularly enough for Lee to win.

Wasn't Lee not 162 lbs and Sipos 165 lbs, making both Super middles?

That's what I remembered.

Boxrec has Sipos at 163 and Lee at 162.

That's as fair as can be, plus, Sipos was not great by any stretch and
gave Lee hell

ah,sure

walshb wrote: »

Wasn't Lee not 162 lbs and Sipos 165 lbs, making both Super middles?

It was, there was 3lbs difference. But Lee made those comments in today's paper. Dunno where he's going with that. There was some difference in physique between the two.