Pioneer and Jamo

tom_ass19

Hey guys

Ill be moving into a new place soon and want to have a nice setup for the living room. At the moment I have a 42" Panasonic Vierra(link below). Went into town today and was looking around for an amp and speakers. Ill be using the system mostly for movies and games on the xbox360.


I was recommend a good starting set, Pioneer and Jamo speakers(link below again). Im new to purchasing amps and speakers so Im not that knowledgeable. Have I been recommend a good set or are they better out there. Ive always been buying normal surround sound systems but this time want to spend the bit extra and get a good quality set.

TV I currently have

Jamo A102 Was quoted 429euro

Pioneer VSX-918V Was quoted 399euro


Are these products good for what im paying or is their better products out there for similar prices. Had a look at purchasing them online and seems to be alot cheaper but afraid of getting them posted as they might get damaged.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance

akaSol

Nice amp, great price, tat speakers.
Try a little KEF or Harmon Kardon.

>Sol

tom_ass19

akaSol wrote: »

tat speakers.

as in crap? sorry dont know the lingo :P

the second set you linked are nice, though does the 80watt outage mean each speaker or in total. If so I would be looking for a louder set. So the prices are pretty good for the amp but you would recommend a different set of speakers.

akaSol

tom_ass19 wrote: »

as in crap? sorry dont know the lingo :P

Wont give that amp any where close to the kick its looking for. Not talking about loudness just fidelity.
And with DT HD/DTS Ma on blueray its where the biggest let-down comes from IMO.
>Sol

tom_ass19

Ah right. Thanks Sol.

So far your recommending the amp anyways. Could you recommend other speakers. As I mentioned above im new to all this so dont know alot about what is good and whats not good. The salesman recommended the speakers, hes a mate of my dads so I thought he wouldnt let me down but at the end of the day, he is a salesman and needs to sell what isnt selling.


So any other links for speakers would be appreciated just so I can have a good few choices to select from

akaSol

What's your overall budget, €900 ish with no player?
So: Q Acoustic 1010I , JBL CS680 , Whardale 9.0HCP.
Although the 1010's or the 9.0 are larger book shelf type. There are more but I have heard all of what I have listed and they are all about the €500 mark.

>Sol

tom_ass19

My total budget would be around 1k at the moment for both speakers and amp. Would you recommend any ONKYO speakers as the salesman in the shop recommended me a ONKYO amp, but would have gone over my budget then unfortunately.

akaSol

I am not a fan of the current amps by Onkyo. As a result don't rate their surround speakers.
I am a huge fan of Yamaha. But would happily run with Pioneer , Denon, Marantz, Harmon Kardon should they exceed my expectations.
You amp is a good price if that's what you have your heart set on and any one of the speaker kits would set you in a great position for any future up grade.
The biggest problem with this type of thing though is how far up do you go, i.e what's more important , HDMI inputs, LPCM, audiofedelity, speaker responce etc.

>Sol
(P.S. I am still buying.....)

tom_ass19

Obviously with Yamaha id be looking at alot more expensive products?

Sorry what does LPCM mean?

Ya I think ill go for that amp, seems good and since your recommending it, thats a plus. Well Ill be hoping to have the xbox360, sky HD and if I decide to go for a blue ray but not a biggie if I dont.

What Im really looking for in sound would be bass, how clear the sound is and that "wow" feeling when watching action movies, never had a good room to have a proper surround setup. I might be in a dream world with what im looking for but im sure a set for around 500ish would be suitable for my needs.

akaSol

Well the 1010's then.
If you can find a nice dealer they might sort you out a price for a pair of 1030/1050 instead....(Floor standers.)
Oh and LCPCM is another style of HD audio for want of a better explanation.
>Sol

(Yamaha DSPAX763 €479, DSPAX863Se €649 , Dublin retailer.)

tom_ass19

Think I will actually go for the 1010's since Ive seen that you replied to another thread mentioning that he had nice speakers

Thanks for all the advise you've given me, was much appreicated. Is it relatively easy to setup? I dont think I would have any problems. Someone in work mentioned to me that the speakers have to be a certain distance apart, something along those lines. Does that really matter or would I be better off getting the correct measurments for the speakers so I could get the best experience.

JoeA3

Tom,
I have the Jamo speakers and a Pioneer Amp too, so I feel qualified to help here!

First off, whatever you do, do NOT spend that kind of money on it!

I sourced the Jamo's online for about £200 (sterling) on tekshop247.com. Their site seems to be down for maintenance right now, but I was extremely happy with their service, the speakers delivered to my door within 48 hrs of ordering. No problems with damages in transit or anything, they are perfect.

I got my Pioneer Amp (the VSX-1018AH) in Richersounds Belfast. This is a better/bigger spec'd Pioneer than the one you're looking at and it only cost me £330! I've posted many times on here about how happy I am with the Amp and the superb service from RS. Free delivery too for boards members. Here's a link to the specs of the Amp - http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/Product_ID/4217

So, total cost for me was about €600. I think I got super value overall!

Overall, I'm very happy with what I got... I wouldn't agree with the negative comment on the Jamos, I'm very impressed with mine. Great sound, and they look great too (wife friendly too, which helps!).

tom_ass19

Thank you Joe, was wondering if I was going to get different views on the products even though I appreciate both sols your views on the products.

What would be the main differences that you have found between the Pioneer I was recommend and that one you have just recommened me.

Good to hear that they came to you without any damage as that would be my main concern when purchasing online. I knew it would be alot cheaper if I purchased online, just feel a bit guilty buying them online when the salesman spent that much time with me and ive bought my tv from him before. Oh well, guess I better think about the price.

Did you have any difficulties setting the system up as they are two different manufacturers, as in setting the correct distance for the speakers?

Sorry for the late reply, in work so only got round to it now

JoeA3

tom_ass19 wrote: »

What would be the main differences that you have found between the Pioneer I was recommend and that one you have just recommened me.

Good to hear that they came to you without any damage as that would be my main concern when purchasing online. I knew it would be alot cheaper if I purchased online, just feel a bit guilty buying them online when the salesman spent that much time with me and ive bought my tv from him before. Oh well, guess I better think about the price.

Did you have any difficulties setting the system up as they are two different manufacturers, as in setting the correct distance for the speakers?

Sorry for the late reply, in work so only got round to it now

I think when the prices are so wildly inflated here, I wouldn't think twice about making the online purchase. I know its a bit unpatriotic, but money talks... €429, that's double what I paid! Crazy stuff.!

Setup is relatively simple, if you're reasonably comfortable with this type of thing. Obviously there's bit more to it than with your average all-in-one home cinema with colour coded sockets, but it's not too difficult either.

My Pioneer (I think they all do) came with a setup microphone, which you place at your seating position, then you run the auto-setup and the Amp does the rest! Pioneer's auto-setup (MCACC) is well regarded. Also, my Amp can be set to be paired with either 6 or 8 ohm speakers, the Jamos are 6 ohm.

Wiring the speakers up and routing the cables around the room was the most tedious and time consuming bit.

Try here to compare the specs of the different pioneer amps! http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/42/98/405/overview.html

Main advantages mine has:

- 7.1 compatible (although I'm only it as a 5.1)
- more inputs and outputs connections
- THX certified
- 150W output per channel versus 130W

And, most importantly of all, I'm not sure if the cheaper one decodes the HD audio formats (TrueHD, DTS-HD, etc). If it doesn't, its a big disadvantage!

Any other questions, ask away, its my favourite subject at the moment :pac:

akaSol

JoeA3 wrote: »

- 7.1 compatible (although I'm only it as a 5.1)
- more inputs and outputs connections
- THX certified
- 150W output per channel versus 130W

The THX is artificial increasing the range of the
Jamos.

That's something I never thought of.
I am impressed, very impressed .

>Sol

tom_ass19

Ok now I have to go for your system Joe. I cant get in a good long reply as work is busy so hence the short reply. Ill be finished after two anyways.

Feeling alot better now about buying the pioneer and jamo speakers as sol changed my mind a bit on them. But looks like the new system ill be getting will be a good starter point for me


Plus with the 7.1 I can always add more speakers, maybe those cube speakers, cant think of the correct name now so excuse my lack of knowledge. But that wont be for a while yet.

The microphone setup, that obviously tells you if you have the correct spacing between the speakers im guessing?

Sorry for the noob questions again but are you able to tweak the amps, like a computer processer to get more boost out of it or is that something that just doesnt happen, you get what you pay for basically.

JoeA3

tom_ass19 wrote: »

Ok now I have to go for your system Joe. I cant get in a good long reply as work is busy so hence the short reply. Ill be finished after two anyways.

Feeling alot better now about buying the pioneer and jamo speakers as sol changed my mind a bit on them. But looks like the new system ill be getting will be a good starter point for me


Plus with the 7.1 I can always add more speakers, maybe those cube speakers, cant think of the correct name now so excuse my lack of knowledge. But that wont be for a while yet.

The microphone setup, that obviously tells you if you have the correct spacing between the speakers im guessing?

Sorry for the noob questions again but are you able to tweak the amps, like a computer processer to get more boost out of it or is that something that just doesnt happen, you get what you pay for basically.

Yep, 7.1 allows you to add another pair of surround (rear) speakers if you want, or more importantly, if you have the space! The Jamos are effectively "cube" or satellite speakers, so you could get another pair of those, or mix and match!

Some blu-ray movies have 7.1 DD sound, not that many though at the moment as far as I know.

Yes, the mic setup basically gets the speaker levels right from your seating position - speaker distance, levels, etc. You can tweak the settings manually then if you feel necessary! There's a multitude of settings and tweaks you can do and to be honest some of the more detailed stuff goes over my head... I'm still getting to grips with mine and I've had it 6 or 7 weeks now.

The Jamo Subwoofer also has it's own knobs and buttons, for setting level (volume), and other stuff.

Have a look in the Richersounds forum and drop JohnMc there an email... that's where I got my Pioneer, the Jamos as I said I got elsewhere cos RS don't do them.

tom_ass19

So even if I get the Jamo speakers and that amp I can a differnt make to get 7.1. So it doesnt all have to be Jamo or would it be better to stick with just Jamo.

The microphone system seems pretty cool, will probably take me a while to set it up as I'd let to get it perfect. I dont think I would trust myself to go tweaking until I know the system better.

Im presuming its richersounds that have the free delivery for boards members or is it tekshop(website is still down, even though they said maintenance was finished today)?

Sorry for all the questions, dont want to be annoying. Would be be advisable to purchase HDMI cables to connect the tv to the amp. I mentioned above that ill also have a xbox 360 hooked up and a sky HD box.

Im just going to guess now how it works but please correct me if im wrong.

So the xbox, sky HD and amp are connected to the TV via HDMI. Then the xbox is connected to the amp via coaxial or HDMI and the same with the sky HD box. Im a complete noob so hence the questions and thank for your time

JoeA3

tom_ass19 wrote: »

So even if I get the Jamo speakers and that amp I can a differnt make to get 7.1. So it doesnt all have to be Jamo or would it be better to stick with just Jamo.

You can mix and match, e.g. some people would get larger "floorstander" type speakers for the fronts, and use smaller ones for surrounds. It's up to you, down to budget and space really. I'd recommend browsing the forums avforums.com, a wealth of info on there, a dedicated forum for every component, including speakers!

Im presuming its richersounds that have the free delivery for boards members or is it tekshop(website is still down, even though they said maintenance was finished today)?

Yes, RS is free delivery for boards members. Tekshop was £20 for delivery to Ireland. A lot of UK retailers won't ship here at all, but they were an exception. I see now they say the site will be back up tomorrow! I'd recommend them anyway, assuming they're still in business....

Would be be advisable to purchase HDMI cables to connect the tv to the amp. I mentioned above that ill also have a xbox 360 hooked up and a sky HD box.

Yes, you'll need at least a couple of hdmi cables. Get these in Tescos for less than €20. Do NOT spend €100 on one in Currys - that has to be the biggest scam going! The cheaper ones will do exactly the same job.

So the xbox, sky HD and amp are connected to the TV via HDMI. Then the xbox is connected to the amp via coaxial or HDMI and the same with the sky HD box.

I'm not too familiar with the XBox and what connections it has, but for Sky HD and a Blu-ray player, I'd do the following:

blu-ray ---> AMP (via HDMI) ---> TV (hdmi)
Sky HD ---> AMP (via optical)
Sky HD ---> TV (via hdmi)

There's no point routing the Sky through the Amp via hdmi, because the Sky box has a limitation - it doesn't output Dolby 5.1 sound over hdmi, only via Optical. Doing it this way also has the advantage that you can watch and listen to normal TV without always turning on the AMP. Then if you want DD surround sound on your sky sports, you turn the amp on

tom_ass19

Ya thats what I would get more than likely rather than smaller speakers, just two floorstands each beside the tv. Ill have a look when I get home from work on those forums and see what the story is.

The the salesman was trying to advise me that this HDMI cable for 80euro was the best around at the moment, also recommend this HDMI cable for 30euro so its the same cable in tesco's that you were talking about.


Im not too sure myself if my xbox does have the HDMI slots as only the newer xbox's have them but I do know that there is a converter from A/V to HDMI that will go into the back of the TV. Have to check that when I get home. Doesnt bother me too much.


Thanks for clearing up where to connect what cable

JoeA3

tom_ass19 wrote: »

The the salesman was trying to advise me that this HDMI cable for 80euro was the best around at the moment

Oh noooooooo! :eek:

Do yourself a favour and steer clear of whatever salesman told you that! He's either doesn't know what he's talking about or is deliberately misleading you, probably the former to be fair.

Unlike a SCART lead, where spending a little more can be beneficial (because it's analog, and shielding is important), a HDMI cable carries a digital signal. It either works or it doesn't. A €10 hdmi cable from Tescos will do EXACTLY the same job as "the best one around at the moment" !!!!

akaSol

JoeA3 wrote: »

Unlike a SCART lead, where spending a little more can be beneficial (because it's analog, and shielding is important), a HDMI cable carries a digital signal. It either works or it doesn't. A €10 hdmi cable from Tescos will do EXACTLY the same job as "the best one around at the moment" !!!!

I would disagree with that Joe. I have used ALLOT of cables in the past and do feel this whole "cable is a cable" thing is in peoples heads. My interconnect cables cost me as much as my player.

>Sol

Idleater

JoeA3 wrote: »

Unlike a SCART lead, where spending a little more can be beneficial (because it's analog, and shielding is important), a HDMI cable carries a digital signal. It either works or it doesn't. A €10 hdmi cable from Tescos will do EXACTLY the same job as "the best one around at the moment" !!!!

I have to agree with akasol on this one.

Digital does not mean that it works or it doesn't. There are so many things going on inside a hdmi cable that there _can_ be interference between internal wiring. These can appear on screen as occasional imperfections or they can result in jitter and non uniform audio delays.

However, whether you or anyone else can see the evidence of this on screen, or hear it from your speakers is another matter.

I am by no means stating that the Sales person was correct, or that the tesco €10 one won't work, I am merely disagreeing with your view of EXACTLY.

JoeA3

Normally I would not scrimp on stuff like this either, and I did spend a few quid on decent speaker cables and scart leads.

But I have read up on this "expensive hdmi leads" topic a lot in the last few months and the general consensus among people who seem to be in the know (I'm not suggesting for a second that you guys don't know) is that the super-dooper-gold-plated oxygen free monster cables that the likes of Curry's try to flog for €100+, and which they tend to insist are the only ones which will work (yeah right) are a total waste of money!!! A salesman in one of these major chain shops tried to tell me that the expensive ones are the only ones which would work with the "latest HDMI 1.3a interface"... not a bulls clue, and I couldn't be bothered arguing with him.

With the margins on TV's and electronics being so tight, this is where these guys make their real commission, selling add-on warranties and ridiculously priced leads in fancy packaging to unsuspecting punters.

Or maybe I'm being very cynical!

Mark#1

JoeA3 wrote: »

With the margins on TV's and electronics being so tight, this is where these guys make their real commission, selling add-on warranties and ridiculously priced leads in fancy packaging to unsuspecting punters.

Or maybe I'm being very cynical!

Yep, cynical. And rightly so. Even if someone I trusted told me that a €100 1m HDMI cable was "better" than a €10 1m HDMI cable, I'd be spending €10.

Some magazines say, "spend 10% of your overall spend on cables". I struggle with that. Shouldn't it be the case that you "buy the best cables you can afford?" Or, "buy this spec of cable", and if you can buy it for 5% of your spend, why not?

I've also read up a lot on HDMI cable prices. Some folk do claim expensive ones do make a difference, but even if they do, I wonder is it enough of a difference to warrant 10 times the cost?

I got my Pioneer VSX-818 (£170), DV-410V (£70) & Yamaha NSP-110 5.1 set (£90) in RS in Belfast. Total was £330. I think it came out on the card bill at €380.

Fine gear for my purposes. Speakers are compact and unobtrusive, with clear punchy sound and enough clout to do the job in my kitchen/dining room (6m x 7m).

My sitting room set-up will include a Denon AVR-2309 & QAcoustics 5.1 set (1020i fronts), but that's a bit of a step up from the kitchen set-up. AVR-2309 is £600 from RS, and the QAcoustics set is £540, IIRC.

The Onkyos do get good reviews, but the 606 I was considering upscales only to 1080i, and doesn't look as good as some competitors, but can be had for £350, I think.

I think the main thing for you is to forget about buying in ROI - you'll get far better value for money from the UK & NI. If you find a real bargain in ROI (verified by like-for-like comparison with a UK/NI seller), then go for it.

I browsed superfi.co.uk, 1staudiovisual.co.uk, richersounds.com, AVForums.com, tvcables.co.uk and many more to a) learn what I wanted, and b) to find the cheapest & safest place to buy it all.


Good luck,

Mark