Good half marathon time, How do I transfer that to a good marathon time?

greenplain

Hi,

Need some help and opinions. I am currently training for the Cork marathon. I am starting week 6 in my training plan. My mile log for last week was 35 miles. I run four days a week and another day I cross train. The longest run I have done was the half marathon in Carlingford on Saturday which i finished in 1.33.

Ideally I'd like to beat my Dublin marathon time of 3.46. The thing is, I seem to fade in the latter part of races. With Saturdays run in mind I could not see myself (at this moment and time) running the second half of a marathon in and around the same time as 1.33.

How do become stronger and have enough in me to run a marathon in about 3.30 ?

When I train, I really just go out and run. I do hilly runs and some runs I run faster but thats about it.

What am I missing out training wise so I can better myself ?

cfitz

What cross-training do you do? Depending on what it is, it may be far more useful to replace it with a run.

greenplain

The cross training I do is either on a rowing machine or a cross trainer machine. I do like using them as it give me a break from running and less impact on the knees.

Racing Flat

Long runs

hunnymonster

I agree with RF, When people fade in a race, it's usually one of three things
1. incorrect fuelling: practice and find what works for you.
2. insufficient endurance: get more time on your feet in the form of long runs
3. something hurts: can happen to anyone, unfortunately.

greenplain

well my long run at the moment is up to 13 miles but I know I could easily tag on a few more miles to that say 17. I run them at about 7.30

Racing Flat

If you've a good HM time, you have the pace, so you just need the endurance to last 26.2miles. For this long runs will be key. 6 20-22mile runs in the build up IMO.

greenplain

with regard to the Dublin marathon. I did the first 13 miles in 1.37 and everything was fine up to mile 21 when my IT band started to play up and for the last 5 miles it was like a knife was jammed in my knee.

I due fuel up and take gels. And I have addressed the whole IT band issue I stretch and have started doing some leg weights which have helped no end.

As for long runs I dd 5 20+ runs for Dublin, but when the marathon rolled around I really felt tired and I think if i was to run the marathon a few weeks earlier I would have been in better shape

MCOS

greenplain wrote: »

well my long run at the moment is up to 13 miles but I know I could easily tag on a few more miles to that say 17. I run them at about 7.30

If getting about 3'30' is your goal then 7'30 is too fast for your lsrs as its 30 sec faster than PMP. Maybe do a midweek 8-10 miler at 7'30 and take RF and HMs advise and get some 20 milers into your weekends. Only, relax the pace on those. They are about endurance not pace. No harm in doing a few miles at PMP in your lsr but it should mostly be easier than PMP and focused on being on your feet for 3 hours

hunnymonster

You might need to look at your taper if you felt tired on the start line. I often feel exhausted at the start of a race, but it's usually just nerves. As soon as the gun starts I'm ready to fire.

Are you running your LSR's too fast perhaps?

I'm just throwing ideas out there.

T runner

If you've run 1.33 off ad-hoc training you should be capable of sub 3.

Join a club to get advice and take it to next level. Very cheap, good advice and experienced people to train with who also like running.

The long runs if lacking would cause you to fade.

If your endurance is OK then you could look at progressive long runs. Starting slow finishing faster to tach your body to keep working hard when tired.

You can do some of your medium/long runs at marathon race pace to build up your ability to keep this pace up.

Do tempo runs at 15k to half marathon race pace (20-45 mins at this pace + w-up and down).

When you are strong enough you could incorporate one of these tempos into the end of a long run to simulate marathon conditions (stamina wise).

Thats some of the theory but if youre running 93 for the half the most positive thing you can do to progress is to join a club. Youll be close to 3 for Cork if you do that.


Edit:

Just saw your LSR pace. I agree with HM, too fast. Slower and longer for most runs until your endurance is good. The runs I mentioned above should be run closer to the race itself for specific race pace training. You need to slow them down a bit and start doing some of your shorter runs quicker.

MCOS

T runner wrote: »

If you've run 1.33 off ad-hoc training you should be capable of sub 3.

.

I thought you would need to be at 84-85 for a Half to consider sub 3?

Racing Flat

greenplain wrote: »

As for long runs I dd 5 20+ runs for Dublin, but when the marathon rolled around I really felt tired and I think if i was to run the marathon a few weeks earlier I would have been in better shape

Very common. You went 'over the top'. the skill is to be at the top of the mountain on marathon day, not over the other side. You should be dying to run the marathon on the day, not wishing it was 3 weeks sooner. So get the taper right and don't peak your long runs too early.

greenplain

thanks lads, I'll take this all on board and use it and i'll report back in a few weeks. With regard to my long runs, I know i run them too fast and i do find it hard to get the pace right, i'll work on that and see how it helps me

tunney

MCOS wrote: »

I thought you would need to be at 84-85 for a Half to consider sub 3?

At least - I could knock out a 85 without a problem but would have to really work it to get sub 3.

cfitz

tunney wrote: »

At least - I could knock out a 85 without a problem but would have to really work it to get sub 3.

I think T_runner's point was that Greenplain seems to have done 93 minutes off of fairly ad-hoc training and that if he/she joins a club he/she will quickly learn how to do things better and be able to run sub 3 (or perhaps sub 84 for a half marathon).

tunney

cfitz wrote: »

I think T_runner's point was that Greenplain seems to have done 93 minutes off of fairly ad-hoc training and that if he/she joins a club he/she will quickly learn how to do things better and be able to run sub 3 (or perhaps sub 84 for a half marathon).

ah

aburke

Racing Flat wrote: »

Long runs

and more miles.
It's not rocket science...