Timing belt gone.....

Takca

Hi All,
Just looking for a little advice, this evening I was driving home
and had briefly stopped at a toll plaza when I noticed the car had knocked
off. When I tried to restart the car I could hear what I think was the starter
spinning (also the belts to the right of the engine was spinning), but it didn't feel or sound like the engine was being spun/started.

Acording to the guy who picked up the car from the insurance breakdown
service, the timing belt was gone. Now here is the weird bit, my car has
75k on the clock and the timing belt was changed at 69k (miles). Should this
mean that the garage who changed the belt would be liable for it?

Currently the car is sitting in the recovery sevice's garage waiting till
the morning when I have to ring him to see if he will look into fixing it
or will I be picking it up..

The car is a 03 Laguna 1.6 petrol

My initial thoughts would be to contact the garage who changed the belt
and get them to pick it up (about 100 miles away) and fix it etc...
would this be fair enough to do?

Thanks,
Derek.

Guy:Incognito

derekh wrote: »

Acording to the guy who picked up the car from the insurance breakdown
service, the timing belt was gone. Now here is the weird bit, my car has
75k on the clock and the timing belt was changed at 69k (miles). Should this
mean that the garage who changed the belt would be liable for it?
.

If it is the TB , after 6k I'd be asking questions. Was the water pump and other TB associated bits changed too?

klaus23

It's not the water pump, it's the tensioners, pulleys and/or balancing shafts I'd be worried about firstly.

Takca

It wasn't changed by a renault dealer (might be relevant)

when they were doing it they rang me to say the water pump needed changing
too and it would cost extra but they (nor me) never mentioned tensioners
or auxillary belts)

So all I know for sure is that they changed the timing belt and water
pump. Are the tensioners and other TB done as standard aswell or should
I have asked them to change these also.

Darragh29

It's possible that the timing belt didn't actually break. It is possible that the tensioner came loose and this is how the problem started. You need to get the site stripped down and get the parts out and then gather the facts and see if you have a statable case in terms of a warranty or a possible workmanship issue OP.

ta2liam

derekh wrote: »

It wasn't changed by a renault dealer (might be relevant)

when they were doing it they rang me to say the water pump needed changing
too and it would cost extra but they (nor me) never mentioned tensioners
or auxillary belts)

So all I know for sure is that they changed the timing belt and water
pump. Are the tensioners and other TB done as standard aswell or should
I have asked them to change these also.

i'd say he changed the tensioners its common practice! it sounds to me he either had the belt too tight which would put pressure on the tensioner and cause it to fail. Or its not a genuine t/belt kit.... i had the same problem with a gates belt kit and got the cost covered from the suppliers from the warranty but they wouldn't cover the labour costs that was down to the customer.

either way bring it back to the garage and let them have a look, but if you don't feel like their telling the truth get a second opinion.

Liam

Darragh29

ta2liam wrote: »

i'd say he changed the tensioners its common practice! it sounds to me he either had the belt too tight which would put pressure on the tensioner and cause it to fail. Or its not a genuine t/belt kit.... i had the same problem with a gates belt kit and got the cost covered from the suppliers from the warranty but they wouldn't cover the labour costs that was down to the customer.

either way bring it back to the garage and let them have a look, but if you don't feel like their telling the truth get a second opinion.

Liam

Well Gates supply most vehicle manufacturers with timing belts at production stage, OP you can have a reliabilty issue with any product, such is the nature fo parts manufacture. It is standard for manufacturers to only accept a claim once it is not accompanied with a labour claim. Manufacturers like SKF and Gates and LuK (clutch manufacturer), have no issue with supplying free replacement parts once a claim comes in, provided that the claim does not mention labour, they expect a garage to provide the labour for free. Labour in your case will make up a large proportion of the bill, so it will be interesting to see how this pans out for you...

My initial advice still stands, get the parts out and get the facts accertained as best you can. Then make a decision with regard to who is paying...

Takca

Ok, I'll approach the garage tomorrow and see how they want to handle it,
if they don't want to take on some responsibility. I'll find a 3rd party
who can strip down and diagnose the reason for the problem.

Darragh29

derekh wrote: »

Ok, I'll approach the garage tomorrow and see how they want to handle it,
if they don't want to take on some responsibility. I'll find a 3rd party
who can strip down and diagnose the reason for the problem.

Jesus OP, on your life do not have the same garage that previously did the timing belt, investigate the cause of what happened here.

Get a trusted mechanic who is not associated with the car or at least is not associated with the previous timing belt transaction, to take the timing cover off and see if the belt has broken or not. If you can get a definitive answer to this question, you can start to examine the root cause. Also, if the belt has broken, has it broken because it was rubbing off something that it should not have had any contact with??? To tie this down, you need to get someone to have a look in there and see what happened.

pred racer

Darragh29 wrote: »

Jesus OP, on your life do not have the same garage that previously did the timing belt, investigate the cause of what happened here.

Get a trusted mechanic who is not associated with the car or at least is not associated with the previous timing belt transaction, to take the timing cover off and see if the belt has broken or not. If you can get a definitive answer to this question, you can start to examine the root cause. Also, if the belt has broken, has it broken because it was rubbing off something that it should not have had any contact with??? To tie this down, you need to get someone to have a look in there and see what happened.

+1

Takca

Darragh29 wrote: »

Jesus OP, on your life do not have the same garage that previously did the timing belt, investigate the cause of what happened here.

Nope, it was only my intension to hand it over to the origional garage if they
agreed to fix it. By that I mean if they said something like we'll take a look
at it and see what happened then they're not getting it.

I spoke to the recovery this morning who reckons it would be upwards of 1200
to repair (from him todo it). or somewhere around 400 or 500 Euros to bring
back to sligo, its just outside dublin at the moment. He wasn't very keen on
the idea of stripping it to find out how it happened

I also spoke to the origional garage who seemed like they would fix it and go
and get it. But they wanted to talk to the recovery garage first. So talking
to him is now in their hands. I still hope to get somebody else to look at it
but it might be harder if the car is in their hands but at least it will be back in sligo.

ta2liam

Darragh29 wrote: »

Jesus OP, on your life do not have the same garage that previously did the timing belt, investigate the cause of what happened here.

i don't agree there, have the same garage look at it as they will give you the warranty on the parts and if its their fault they will fix it free of charge, if theres is a dispute then get a 3rd party involved. there is nothing worst when a customers comes back saying "i got x garage to look at my car and he said you ****ed it up". A 3rd party will always blame the other so they can get your custom.

Not every garage is out to get you!

Darragh29

derekh wrote: »

Nope, it was only my intension to hand it over to the origional garage if they
agreed to fix it. By that I mean if they said something like we'll take a look
at it and see what happened then they're not getting it.

I spoke to the recovery this morning who reckons it would be upwards of 1200
to repair (from him todo it). or somewhere around 400 or 500 Euros to bring
back to sligo, its just outside dublin at the moment. He wasn't very keen on
the idea of stripping it to find out how it happened

I also spoke to the origional garage who seemed like they would fix it and go
and get it. But they wanted to talk to the recovery garage first. So talking
to him is now in their hands. I still hope to get somebody else to look at it
but it might be harder if the car is in their hands but at least it will be back in sligo.

But sure they are not going to take responsibility for anything unless they first investigate what has happened. The damage here could be anywhere up to 2K. If I was in your situation, given the figures to hand here, I'd take independent counsel first and then approach the garage that did the job and give them the opportunity to examine the damage if they wished, but I wouldn't be relying on them to possibly incriminate their own workmanship at a cost of 2K to them, especially given the current climate.

If I was in your situation I'd be much more methodical about this and I wouldn't be giving anyone any wiggle room, but that's just my advice.

Takca

Darragh29 wrote: »

If I was in your situation I'd be much more methodical about this and I wouldn't be giving anyone any wiggle room, but that's just my advice.

I'm afraid they have already got the wiggle room, they offered to bring the
car back to sligo at their expense, then open it to see what has happened.
So now they will have the opportunity to look into it first. The one guy I
did ask didn't want to look at it as he said its "not someting one perfesional
garage would do to another" so I didn't persue this any futher (or more
accuratly didn't realy have an oppertunuty as befor I knew it the car was on
the way back to the garage). Either way I'll know this evening how they intend
to handle it, if they try to wash their hands of it, I'll get the car back off
them for somebody else to look at. I am well aware this is not ideal and not
how I intended but unfortunatly the situation has steered itself in this direction
befor I took enough control.

Darragh29

derekh wrote: »

I'm afraid they have already got the wiggle room, they offered to bring the
car back to sligo at their expense, then open it to see what has happened.
So now they will have the opportunity to look into it first. The one guy I
did ask didn't want to look at it as he said its "not someting one perfesional
garage would do to another" so I didn't persue this any futher (or more
accuratly didn't realy have an oppertunuty as befor I knew it the car was on
the way back to the garage). Either way I'll know this evening how they intend
to handle it, if they try to wash their hands of it, I'll get the car back off
them for somebody else to look at. I am well aware this is not ideal and not
how I intended but unfortunatly the situation has steered itself in this direction
befor I took enough control.

It sounds like the guy who you asked to look at this for you is living back in the 1920's. It's simple if you could find someone who wasn't going to complicate this for you any further.

My advice is the same as before. Get a proper garage or a motor accessor, unconnected to the previous timing belt transaction, to investigate why your timing belt has snapped or come loose.

It is of course still open to you to have an accessor examine the car when it is back in this garage that previously did the timing belt, if it turns out that the garage say it is not covered under warranty, or it is not their fault and that you'll have to pay to have it sorted out...

Takca

Quick update, I called into the garage this morning and apparently the
waterpump gave in (I think the cog came off it), either way they will
be chasing up the supplyer on it so my pocket should not be getting
any lghter.

With a bit of luck this shouldn't cause any drama at all (for me anyways),
I'll just have to wait until its done.

Thanks for all the advise, I know as it happened I ended up not taking
some of it but its appreciated all the same

BDW

Good to hear it won't cost you anything.
If you don't mind could you pm me the name of the garage you are dealing with?.
I understand you might not want to release it as he is sorting the problem out for you but I am just interested because between me and my father we have a good lot of experience dealing with garages in Sligo, Both private and dealers.

Tea drinker

Good they will sort it. Hopefully you will get the car back in as good nick as it was before, make sure you are happy with it and that all that needs fixing is done...

have to say - I think this would be less likely to fail with genuine parts. I have heard of timing chains, tensioner bearings also failing due to a "bad batch" from OEM supplier. Having said that OEM can sometimes exceed original manu quality.

I know we had a bit of a flame fest between audichris and some other guy ... maybe we can get that going again??