Golf Handicap

Birdietime

Hi Folks

I started playing competitions last year for the first time, got from 18 down to 13 in 6 weeks, took me a while to adjust to be able to play off this consistently, my average score in my last 5 comps hase been 38pts,i'm wondering what the difference is going from a 13 to a high single handicap would be? I play about twice a week. just trying to figure out if i would be competitive off 8/9.......any advice is appreciated.

copacetic

My only advice is that not handing in cards to avoid being cut is not the way to go. If your average is 38pts your handicap is unfair.

I'm leaving this open, please keep the abuse rules in mind guys.

Birdietime

I do agree with you but i felt i was dropping down too fast and would not be able to play, i feel it does take time to adjust to a new handicap.... for the record i didnt hand in two cards... i'm not a bandit.

Mr. Larson

Birdietime wrote: »

I didn't hand in some cards last year as i would have been cut to about 9, i'm wondering what the difference is going from a 13 to a high single handicap would be? I play about twice a week. just trying to figure out if i would be competitive off 8/9.......any advice is appreciated.

Can you explain that comment please? You didn't hand in some cards as you feared you would have been cut if you did? If that's what you did and you are openly admitting it, you won't find much support on here, as that's called managing your handicap and is a rather large 'no no'. Also, doing that seems to be at odds with what you are trying to achieve, which is getting to single figures?

According to the numbers you are posting you should be off single figures and are a total bandit off 13... you say "i'm wondering what the difference is going from a 13 to a high single handicap would be?" - well why not try and get down there and find out?

PhilipMarlowe

If you can go around in +4 then 13 is too high for you (duh!).
If your recent average is 38 then 13 is too high for you unless the courses are shortened for the winter.
I really don't understand the line about not handing in cards because you would have been cut? Were they in competition? If you entered a competition and didn't hand in a card to protect your handicap then that's cheating. If the rounds weren't in competition I don't think that your handicap could be adjusted so I don't understand you mentioning them at all.

You are asking about being competitive. What do you want? To win off a 13 handicap or to play golf as good as you can play?

soundsham

Birdietime wrote: »

I do agree with you but i felt i was dropping down too fast and would not be able to play, i feel it does take time to adjust to a new handicap.... for the record i didnt hand in two cards... i'm not a bandit.

this kind of sh1te boils my blood

kingshankly

licksy close this before the abuse gets worse which it will

OBWON

I am sorry now but I can't stand people who don't hand back cards because they will cut. I have no time for them. In my eyes it is the same as cheating.

BUACHAILL

Can I ask everyone and I certainly dont do it , If your off 13 and have a bad round and dont hand your card in as not to get .1 back , is this cheating ??

Im not suggesting it isnt just asking opinions

thegen

Lads I think we may be getting ahead of ourselves here.

There has been placing in place for a number of months now. Maybe I'm wrong but these scores were probably achieved in a non qualifying comp.

So therefore no cut would have happened anyway.

My advice to you is to play the best you can and get that H/C down as soon as you can. You will adjust to playing to whatever your handicap gets to.

Mr. Larson

BUACHAILL wrote: »

Can I ask everyone and I certainly dont do it , If your off 13 and have a bad round and dont hand your card in as not to get .1 back , is this cheating ??
Im not suggesting it isnt just asking opinions

It's still 'managing' your handicap isn't it? It's the same thing no?

I'd see it as cheating personally. Also, a.f.a.i.k. it messes with the CSS calculation when people don't hand in their cards and theoretically, this could conversely affect other people's handicap (for net difference calculations based on CSS).

BUACHAILL

+1 on that, there has been no adjusting since November as placing has been in.

copacetic

just to be clear the OP has edited his post, originally it said he didn't hand in cards to avoid being cut.

kingshankly, the thread stays open as I said it post #2. Anyone who resorts to abuse will be banned. Difficult topics can be discussed without acting like children.

BUACHAILL

Jabberwocky personally I see it that way also

I asked because I know people who do it and I always thought it unfair.
I also know other people dont regard it as cheating...funny that

Mr. Larson

thegen wrote: »

Lads I think we may be getting ahead of ourselves here.

There has been placing in place for a number of months now. Maybe I'm wrong but these scores were probably achieved in a non qualifying comp.

So therefore no cut would have happened anyway.

My advice to you is to play the best you can and get that H/C down as soon as you can. You will adjust to playing to whatever your handicap gets to.

Not really, in the OP (s)he specifically mentioned (s)he didn't hand in cards to avoid getting cut, so the point about placing being in place at the moment is moot.

I see (s)he has wisely edited the post now to remove that contentious piece of information... wise move!

Mr. Larson

BUACHAILL wrote: »

Jabberwocky personally I see it that way also

I asked because I know people who do it and I always thought it unfair.
I also know other people dont regard it as cheating...funny that

You get named and shamed in my club for being signed into the comp but not handing in the card... do it 3 times and you get fined. Proper order I think

BUACHAILL

these people arent in my club but thats a good idea

there argument is they know they can play to that handicap

thegen

Lads. I see where you are coming from.

I am in agreement with you. Maybe I missed the original post because it does not mention non return of cards now. I see it in the second one allright.

Just for the record non return of any description is not right. I have seen guys in opens who want to maintain their handicap at a certtain level not returning so as not to receive .1 back.

i feel the poster is fairly new to golf and may not have understood the way in which a non return is looked upon.

I think he knows now.

copacetic

thegen wrote: »

i feel the poster is fairly new to golf and may not have understood the way in which a non return is looked upon.

I think he knows now.

Which would be good and hopefully the thread will be helpful to some others also..

BUACHAILL

the thread should not be closed

Even if the OP is not new to golf, he was honest enough to admit this knowing its frowned upon, I also dont think he is a WUM.

Different people have different agenda's in golf and this always upsets me, personally I want to see how good I can become, Prizes are nice but mean nothing to me, My prize is my handicap and I wont cheat in any shape or form, as you are only cheating yourself

Sandwich

Without knowing the SSS and distribution of those scores that averaged the 38 pts, impossible to say what the correct handicap should be. BUT, estimating, based on a typical distribution and the fact that someone in that handicap range typically hits or betters their handicap 1 in 5 rounds, and taking an SSS of 37, the OP's correct handicap is should be 9 or 10.

If these were all qualifying competitions, have a word with your handicap secretary. He should apply a general play adjustment of something in that range according to the standard handicap distribution.

Common misconception, probably due to the initial "average of 3 cards to get a handicap" procedure, but your handicap should NOT permit an average score of SSS.

staker

I played a round yesterday while a competition was on.I didn't enter it.
Paid my full green fees through an envelope (7.40 tee off).Coming off the 18th a chap approaches me as I'm going to my car wanting to know how I got on?
I says that it was just as well I wasn't in the competition, I'd a bad round.
Are you local he asks?, not sarcastically or anything, to which I says i'm O' brien from cork.
That's all he wanted, says it's great to see support from further afield and walks off.
I'm pretty sure his next port of call was the clubhouse to see the entry list.
He handled it great without making any accusations or being condescending, it's just a pity maybe all GCs aren't so diligent.

DonkeyPokerTour

Jabberwocky wrote: »

You get named and shamed in my club for being signed into the comp but not handing in the card... do it 3 times and you get fined. Proper order I think

Jabber

Thanks for this, as you know I'm a member in the same place as you and didn't know of this rule. I assume it does not apply in the non 18hole comps? I tare up my score cards on Thursdays (13/14 holes depending) if i don't score more than 26/28points or have a 2 for the 2's. I didn't see the point as:
1. No .1's
2. No chance of winning a prize (2 weeks ago a guy out with me had 37 points for 14 holes and finished 3rd on a count back!!!)

If i'm doing something wrong then I will put in my cards whether I have 14 scratches or 40points!

I always submit cards for 18hole comps, no matter what the score.

Regards
Ian

BUACHAILL

it makes no odds when its only a 14 hole comp etc, when its a weekly comp or a medal over 18 holes with no placing etc and u have to swipe in you should be handing in everything good or bad

you have done nothing wrong

Mr. Larson

Obviously you can do what you like with your cards, Ian, I'm not here to police card entry on behalf of the club or anyhting like that but there is nothing wrong with what you're doing so far as the computer hasn't been turned on, for want of a better phrase.

If you don't need to input your score into the computer, either because it's 14 holes or there is placing in play or whatever, then you don't need to hand in your card. (unless, of course you're in contention or in the 2's).

Once placing is gone and scores are to be logged in the computer then you are supposed to put your card in, in addition to entering your score in the system. There are numerous reasons for doing it, they calculate the Standard Scratch for the day based on the full list of scores of all players so without the data for your round (if you lash your card in the bin and don't input them), they are going to skew the results somewhat. I'm only new to competition golf so I'm no expert but I'd imagine they use the data on the computer for all sorts of calculations, from Standard Scratch to Stroke Indexes for the holes etc. The indexes are changed every couple of years based on how people are playing them. This data is gleaned from the score data we all put into the system.

Clear as mud?

DIEGO WORST

Your handicap is what it is, not what you think it should be.

My club has a funny eligibility rule for Captain’s Day winners, i.e. the player has to have submitted at least 3 cards in the previous calendar year, and at least three cards in the current year. Not too unusual I guess, but not very fair considering the committee is pushing hard for new members. I’d love to suggest they scrap this rule in favour of insisting on 3 cards for current year only, and deeming a player ineligible if he has failed to return cards on more than X occasions in the past two calendar years.

BUACHAILL

well my clubs rules are very simple

If you sign in for a comp and the card is not returned you automatically get .1 back for a no return and it never goes unnoticed and I agree your handicap is what it is.

The only rules regarding Captains day is that you must have layed 3 singles events within the year. If you want to be considered for the teams you must have played 4 singles events within the previous year.

JohnHenry

Where too start, 1st off, anyone who is "managing there handicap" is a cheat in my opinion, cheating everyone else in comp's and themselves. Personally evertime i play its to try and better myself, not to say i got 38 points or whatever. I think the amount of cheating going on around the place is crazy, week in, week out in my club there are guys handing in cards for 35 - 36 points for a 14 hole comp, with handicaps of 14-18!!!!! Crazy, i'm scared to c what a guy will need to pick up a prize during the summer, these guys will be shooting handicapped 59's!!!! I had 32 points about a fornight ago, genuine good round in a 14 hole comp and was not even near the prizes. alot to be said for more stroke play comp's in my opinion

Kbarlow

Guys i thinks you are all getting a little too hot under the collar here. The OP came on looking for advice, and constructivley. OK, so the right thing to do is to hand in the cards at all times but i dont see Birdietime as a cheater becasue he(she) came online to openly discuss something they were not sure about.
Taking into account placing over the last few months, Im sure this guy may easily drop 3-4 shots in normal playing conditions and was worried about dropiing handicap to a lower number and then really struggle coming into the summer.
So although, not the best advised move to keep scorecards, i can see the intention.

Mr. Larson

Kbarlow wrote: »

Guys i thinks you are all getting a little too hot under the collar here. The OP came on looking for advice, and constructivley. OK, so the right thing to do is to hand in the cards at all times but i dont see Birdietime as a cheater becasue he(she) came online to openly discuss something they were not sure about.
Taking into account placing over the last few months, Im sure this guy may easily drop 3-4 shots in normal playing conditions and was worried about dropiing handicap to a lower number and then really struggle coming into the summer.
So although, not the best advised move to keep scorecards, i can see the intention.

Not so.

If you read the entire thread carefully you will see that the OP admitted openly to managing his handicap by not handing in cards. Then once people began to rightly criticise this practice the OP edited the original post removing the piece about not handing in cards in order to avoid getting cut.

People are bothered by this carry on and rightly so.

Myksyk

Kbarlow wrote: »

Guys i thinks you are all getting a little too hot under the collar here. The OP came on looking for advice, and constructivley. OK, so the right thing to do is to hand in the cards at all times but i dont see Birdietime as a cheater becasue he(she) came online to openly discuss something they were not sure about.
Taking into account placing over the last few months, Im sure this guy may easily drop 3-4 shots in normal playing conditions and was worried about dropiing handicap to a lower number and then really struggle coming into the summer.
So although, not the best advised move to keep scorecards, i can see the intention.

OK OP.

scrubber72

I have come to believe that in some clubs some members use the summer comps for .1 gains and can only be seen around majors (captains pres etc) and seem to win most local am am or winter and spring leagues. should a draw take place for every comp to try and stop management of handicaps. I am aware of the logistical side of this but is it the only way to stop this ruining the game

Matt Santos

Minding a handicap is just simply cheating. I have played golf for the past 15 years and started off with an Official Handicap of 10.5! 3 genuine cards and thats what I got. I had played a lot of Society golf and I genuinely thought that 13/14 was a better reflection at the time but I was well chuffed getting the 10.5:D
But, could not live off the Handicap and I drifted out to 12.2...Then suddenly it snapped into place. In a little over the two years I dropped to 5.
Now, believe it or not, in that incredible drop in the Handicap I managed to win outright in my Home Club........ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! I was constantly hitting 39/40 pts but that was no use to win anything! I always like to rub that into the guys that are holders of artificial Handicaps in my Club..
My Club unfortunetly is just rotten... In the last five years there have been 15 Major prizes (3 a Year). Two bandits have claimed 10 of the 15 between them.. Hard to believe that both of these guys finish the year on the exact same Handicap that they started on!!
But if thats the way they want to live their lives in sport I cant do anything about it.. Its not fair but neither is life eh..

M