translaton into Irish ---please help!

Micamaca

Hi there,

I want to enter a competition. To do so, I must translate the following :

"On the edge of Galway city."

I have looked up the word 'edge' in my dictionary, but am not sure what to use.

Was going to try... "Ar bhéal caothair na Gaillimhe."
Am I even close? What should I be saying? Would much appreciate some help, cheers mica

ethernet

Would imagine it's "ar imeall Chathair na Gaillimhe, whatever about my attempt at putting 'cathair' in the genitive case.

Micamaca

Cheers Ethernet,

looks good to me. Imeall was the word I couldn't find in dictionary...I had a feeling béal wasn't what I was looking for. Spelling of Galway was a bit off too

many thanks, mica

Enright

imeall it is

Micamaca

ethernet wrote: »

Would imagine it's "ar imeall Chathair na Gaillimhe, whatever about my attempt at putting 'cathair' in the genitive case.

I'm just after sending it off now, so too late! But I'm sure it's fine, I did a quick google search and found it on a Galway planning document online...if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me

conchubhar1

well cathair is spelt wrong . .

ethernet

conchubhar1 wrote: »

well cathair is spelt wrong . .

Be more constructive than that!

Cathair is the correct spelling according to the Collins Irish dictionary (in the nominative).

theboat

the genitive of cathair is cathrach. so: ar imeall cathrach na gaillimhe, i think...

Karlusss

I don't think so. It would be "ar imeall na cathrach" but I'm pretty sure it's just Gaillimh that takes the genitive in that case, just going by ear.

I THINK the correct form would be "ar imeall cathair na Gaillimhe". Pending correction from someone who actually knows.

Micamaca

It really isn't easy. I had no idea that Irish was full of these cases until recently, imagine my ignorance! How do you all even know stuff like this?
I really need to do a refresher course in all of this. Roll on the summer, when I will finally have some time to do so.

But thanks for all replies. I'll just have to live with my entry, such as it is and keep my fingers crossed.

Grma! M

dory

I would also go for ar imeall chathair na Gaillimhe (I know it's too late just letting you know).

What I do is learn one example and make everything like that. For this I have 'hata fhear an tí'. So following that would mean there would be a séimhiú on cathair. It's definitely not cathrach anyway, because of the 'an tí' that comes after.

topper75

The genetive case in Irish causes a lot of confusion. In Irish itself, it is referred to as the Tuiseal Ginideach /tishel guinidok/.

Really, it is just our equivalent of adding an 'apostrophe and s', as you do in English to indicate that something BELONGS to something else. Instead, in Irish we change the form of the noun that own's the other noun.

Think of it as:

John - car - John's car
Seán - carr - carr Sheáin

So the 'edge' is seen to belong to the 'city', the city's edge:

imeall - cathair - imeall na cathrach

or we could talk about Galway's edge:

imeall na Gaillimhe

Micamaca

so that's what the Tuiseal Ginideach is ...I just remember the phrase, I couldn't remember what it meant!

It's interesting to me though, the way Irish changes nouns...I think it happens too as we don't have indefinite articles.

I've learnt a bit of Croatian and it's similar there. They have many, many cases but no articles! So the noun changes, masc, fem and neut, for each case, so that you can (supposedly) understand what is meant. I used to tell my husband his language was mad, and then I read in my Irish grammar book that Irish does something similar...and I kept quiet after that

@ Dory, that's a good way of learning, I'll keep that in mind cheers, m

Múinteoir

ethernet wrote: »

Would imagine it's "ar imeall Chathair na Gaillimhe, whatever about my attempt at putting 'cathair' in the genitive case.

You actually got it perfectly, ethernet. The standard genitive of 'cathair' is 'cathrach', but the example above is different; in the context of two nouns coming together, with the second being in the genitive, but which is followed by the definite article (i.e. 'an'), a 'séimhiú' is inserted, and not the full genitive transformation. A few other examples:

Muintir na hÉireann but Airgead mhuintir na hÉireann
Teach an Uachtaráin but Díon theach an Uachtaráin

And you were right to have 'Chathair' with a capital letter as well, since it is part of a official name/title. See here, for instance.

dory wrote: »

I would also go for ar imeall chathair na Gaillimhe (I know it's too late just letting you know).

What I do is learn one example and make everything like that. For this I have 'hata fhear an tí'. So following that would mean there would be a séimhiú on cathair. It's definitely not cathrach anyway, because of the 'an tí' that comes after.

How right you are! Excellent example.

Múinteoir

Micamaca wrote: »

Hi there,

I want to enter a competition. To do so, I must translate the following :

"On the edge of Galway city."

I have looked up the word 'edge' in my dictionary, but am not sure what to use.

Was going to try... "Ar bhéal caothair na Gaillimhe."
Am I even close? What should I be saying? Would much appreciate some help, cheers mica

What's the competition/prize and how much of it are you going to give to ethernet if you win?

Micamaca

Múinteoir wrote: »

You actually got it perfectly, ethernet. The standard genitive of 'cathair' is 'cathrach', but the example above is different; in the context of two nouns coming together, with the second being in the genitive, but which is followed by the definite article (i.e. 'an'), a 'séimhiú' is inserted, and not the full genitive transformation.

So it looks like I'm in with a chance so...:) The prize is a subscription to online courses. I could do with a refresher course alright! Not sure how I could split the prize though but have a feeling Ethernet does not need refresher course in Irish anyway...so I may be off the hook

theboat

And there was me thinking my Irish grammar was fairly solid...:rolleyes::D

Múinteoir

theboat wrote: »

And there was me thinking my Irish grammar was fairly solid...:rolleyes::D

Well, you did know the genitive of 'cathair' alright; most people don't.

Lughaidh_Sheáin

It is "ar imeall chathair na Gaillimhe".

It would be wrong to write "cathair" or "chathrach" or "cathrach" here.

When you have 3 words in the same group like here, you don't always need to put 2 of the in the genitive case.

imeall + cathair na Gaillimhe > in this case you can't put cathair in the genitive so you lenite it instead.

If you say "ar imeall cathrach na Gaillimhe", it means "on the town-edge of Galway", so you link "imeall cathrach" + "Gaillimh". (a town-edge & Galway).


By the way, "tuiseal ginideach" would be pronounced more like "tishle guin-yidd-yah".
Remember that ch is NEVER pronounced as k in Irish (I mean, when you pronounce it properly! Most Irish people don't pronounce Irish properly because it isn't well taught).

Tchífidh mé sibh