Exchanging EU pistol licence for an irish one?

steppen

Hi guys,

I dont post here much but lurk from time to time, I am situated in Hungary at the moment and have a 9mm and a .45, both are fully licenced, I am a member of 2 gun clubs and regularily take part in IPSC and Hungarian competitions, I am an Irish citizen and have only lived in Hungary 5 years and will be moving back to Ireland in about 6-8 months, I own a farm and some other properties in Ireland, so I am well established there.

Since my time in hungary, i have gotten really into the sport and would like to continue in Ireland, but I read in the forum that no new pistol licences are going to be issued,

will this affect me? even though I have an existing CLEAN licence from an EU state, I think the Guards will view it as a new licence application and not simply a transfer like they would do with a driving licence

thanks in advance to anyone who can help me out here,

by the way, I have a p99 and a H&K USP .45

Grizzly 45

Forget IPSC here.It was killed here,and wont proably be allowed ever,due to the powers that be thinking it is "combat training".:rolleyes:.So that wipes one "good reason" you might have for owning them here.Best to wait to see what happens whenever this new legislation comes in.But I wouldnt be optimistic to see any new handgun liscenses being issued.
As such the national firearms certs of other EU countries dont transfer to another if you are taking up residency in another EU country.
2] WHY on Earth would you want to move back from Hungary to here???:eek:

steppen

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Forget IPSC here.It was killed here,and wont proably be allowed ever,due to the powers that be thinking it is "combat training".:rolleyes:.So that wipes one "good reason" you might have for owning them here.Best to wait to see what happens whenever this new legislation comes in.But I wouldnt be optimistic to see any new handgun liscenses being issued.
As such the national firearms certs of other EU countries dont transfer to another if you are taking up residency in another EU country.
2] WHY on Earth would you want to move back from Hungary to here???:eek:

you're kidding me, there are no IPSC competitions in Ireland? are there any 9mm competitions at all? so target shooting with the pistol is dead, apart from smallbore? If so that's a ridiculous situation, how is the sport supposed to grow?

I'm a doctor and will be moving back to start work in Ireland, well probably Ireland, although the UK is looking more appealing as time goes on.

chem

forget the UK as well. More hope in getting a pistol here then in the UK. Northern Ireland still has pistols if thats any help?

steppen

chem wrote: »

forget the UK as well. More hope in getting a pistol here then in the UK. Northern Ireland still has pistols if thats any help?

I spoke with the UK authorities, they would have no problem with me transferring the licence, but the guns would have to be kept in the armory of the gun could that I would join there.

if I could keep my guns in a private locker in a gun club in ireland, thus ensuring that they were for my use only on the range, I would be happy with that, but i'm not sure if sure a provision exists in the gun clubs of Ireland?

freddieot

Steppen, I don't know who you spoke to in the UK but there is no just way you can own a 9mm or any handgun of the type you are talkng about in the UK (except NI, Isle of Man etc.).

They do allow some form of VERY long barrel revolver and maybe that's what they meant about allowing it if you deposited one in a club.

Best bet is either the Channel Islands or indeed Northern Ireland if you want to keep your toys and move closer to this neck of the woods.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

freddieot

Grizzly 45

QUOTEyou're kidding me, there are no IPSC competitions in Ireland? are there any 9mm competitions at all? so target shooting with the pistol is dead, apart from smallbore? If so that's a ridiculous situation, how is the sport supposed to grow?[/QUOTE]

Thats a fact Jack! No practical,tactical or Dynamic shooting sports will be allowed in the ROI.According to the wiser and better people in the DOJ.We might train up bodygaurds and terrorists and all such other nasty folks by doing so.:rolleyes:At the moment,all the stationary big cal shooting disiplines are ok,like 1500,etc. Well IMO,they[powers that be] wish we would just go all away and die quietly somwhere,and sod letting the sport grow.


Storing your guns in a locker in a gun range in Ireland is a no hoper from the word go.There arent that many ranges that offer that facility in Ireland and they must be stored in a secured strong room.Plus the way things are going not many clubs will want to do this IMO as the security risk will become very great,thussly upping security requirements,insurance etc.You could do this in Northern Ireland ,your guns become Club guns and you can shoot them when you are up there.Although there is grumbles that this might go as well,still better than nothing.

Sparks

steppen wrote: »

so target shooting with the pistol is dead,

No actually, it's quite active and healthy with the exception of IPSC shooting which was stopped. Ordinary bullseye shooting whether with air, smallbore or centrefire pistols is still continuing and getting larger every week from what I hear.

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Storing your guns in a locker in a gun range in Ireland is a no hoper from the word go.

Well, it's expensive and not many places do it, but it's not a complete no-hoper. Courtlough will offer this from what we've heard here.

steppen

Sparks wrote: »

No actually, it's quite active and healthy with the exception of IPSC shooting which was stopped. Ordinary bullseye shooting whether with air, smallbore or centrefire pistols is still continuing and getting larger every week from what I hear.

so I could use the fact that i will be shooting in centrefire bullseye shooting comps and training as a valid reason to transfer my guns here,will they accept that do you think?


so what type of competitions are available here?

steppen

freddieot wrote: »

Steppen, I don't know who you spoke to in the UK but there is no just way you can own a 9mm or any handgun of the type you are talkng about in the UK (except NI, Isle of Man etc.).

I spoke with an officer from the metro police, he said that I could transfer my licence to the UK, but I would have to join a club and keep my guns there

Grizzly 45

I would check that,double check it ,and check it again to be sure to be sure.Best people to tell you straight out on that is the UK Home office firearms section. Unless there has been some major change in policy in the UK,[I doubt that]about handguns.The only handguns I know you can keep are obsolete and antique calibre at home,but you do need the FAC and ASFIK secure storage at Bisley to use them.Or the only other things are the freaks.IE the long barrelled revolvers or .22 long barrelled pistols.

steppen

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I would check that,double check it ,and check it again to be sure to be sure.Best people to tell you straight out on that is the UK Home office firearms section. Unless there has been some major change in policy in the UK,[I doubt that]about handguns.The only handguns I know you can keep are obsolete and antique calibre at home,but you do need the FAC and ASFIK secure storage at Bisley to use them.Or the only other things are the freaks.IE the long barrelled revolvers or .22 long barrelled pistols.

Thanks for the info with the home office,

What I dont understand is what Sparks said, i.e that the sport is growing///if no new licences are being issued, how can the sport grow, are people going to ranges and using the range weapons for training and comps? Are people really willing to pay the €400+ membership for the midlands just to go there, use a weapon they are unfamiliar with and train?

seems strange as most the the range guns i've seen are past their sell-by, I mean they are obviously in perfect working order etc, but they are a bit tired.


Maybe in Ireland it's different?

Grizzly 45

What I dont understand is what Sparks said, i.e that the sport is growing///if no new licences are being issued, how can the sport grow, are people going to ranges and using the range weapons for training and comps? Are people really willing to pay the €400+ membership for the midlands just to go there, use a weapon they are unfamiliar with and train

?

Thats a very good question,that maybe Sparks can elaborate on?

Maybe in Ireland it's different

?
Thats a fact!!:D

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Thats a very good question,that maybe Sparks can elaborate on?

More folks are showing up to shoot in competitions (before they'd just plink down the range), they're shooting higher scores, we're starting to send off people to international matches (we just sent the first civilian ISSF air pistol shooter there a month ago), and we're running more and more matches. It's not just about how many have pistols, but how they use them as well (which isn't to say we don't want more at the base, but before now all we had was the base, there wasn't any pyramid going on ).

And while things are misfiring at the moment, once the legislation is settled down, we'll see things take off again. Yes, there won't be IPSC. But from the very first thread on IPSC in Ireland we knew there would be problems and that if we dove head-first into it, it stood a significant chance of running into a wall:

Sparks in 2004 wrote:

to use a very eighties term, it's like eating an elephant. Try to do it all in one go and it just won't work. You have to take it one small bite at a time. Start with the most innocous form of shooting and get people used to that. Then go on to something a bit louder. Then try something else. And so on. If you try to start by convincing the public that an IPSC match shot with fullbore sidearms is perfectly safe and fine, they just won't believe you. Hell, I would have trouble believing you (a carryover from the "don't run with scissors" lectures from my mother as a child, no doubt). So instead you box clever. Start by showing off air rifle sports (we've been doing that). Then move on to ISSF .22 shooting (again, we've been doing that). Both of these are pleasant, look very safe and harmless, and use firearms that don't look like what the public expects a "gun" to look like. Plus, you've the whole Olympic view there as well. Next, show off ISSF air pistols. Again, same arguments apply there. Move from there to ISSF smallbore pistols. And thence to ISSF fullbore rifles and pistols.

(Note that by this time, lots of people here are thinking "why ISSF?" but don't seem to see that there's little if any legal difference between an ISSF pistol and a IMSSU pistol or a plinking pistol. So if ISSF's easier to sell, and it gets you what you want, why fight it?)

Once you have these established, you can go on to other disciplines that are harder to sell. Start with bullseye pistol - that brings in more fullbore pistols - or with service rifles.

But if the first thing you ask for is to go shoot at human silhouettes with fullbore sidearms, you'll just get a fast lesson in what actual legal rights you have regarding the ownership of firearms in this country.

Well, that's now happened - but our best bet for the good of as many of the sports as it's possible to help is still to do it step-by-step. Let folks see what we're doing, let them absorb it and understand it's not a problem and then go on to the next step.

chem

Will a ban on new licences not kill the sport? no licence been issued to people coming in from other countries to compete etc....?

Sparks

It'd definitely give it a good kicking chem, no question. Grandfather rules generally mean that a sport is on the way out. On the other hand, rules can be changed. There's not much hope of seeing IPSC in Ireland for the next few years, in my honest opinion, but that doesn't mean we'll never, ever see it again. Hell, we thought we'd never see pistols or fullbores again at one point, I remember. And today we're a damn sight better off than we were back then in terms of our relationship with the PTB.

BTW, I want to point something out about that quote above: it's from a four-year-old thread, which happens to have been started by the guy who went on to found the IPSA. It was also talking about public perception and how IPSC would be seen in the Irish media; not about what IPSC actually is in reality, and there's quite a large gulf between the two. It seems that quote ticked off some people who read it out of context as some sort of present-day swipe at IPSA; I'm sorry for the stress, but it wasn't an attack, it was written before the IPSA was ever founded and at the time few knew what IPSC looked like in fine detail over here.

b52

HI.lads. It seem to me that you want to lead Steppen down the wrong road before he ever gets to shoot here in Ireland. Where ever he has got his information from alot of it is false. The MIDLANDS RANGE do not charge 400 euro to join ,weaponds are not used in target sports, you can not hire out firearms to use on the range and no training is carried out with weapons.i on the range.

jaycee

b52 wrote: »

HI.lads. It seem to me that you want to lead Steppen down the wrong road before he ever gets to shoot here in Ireland. Where ever he has got his information from alot of it is false. The MIDLANDS RANGE do not charge 400 euro to join ,weaponds are not used in target sports, you can not hire out firearms to use on the range and no training is carried out with weapons.i on the range.

Absolutely correct !

Practical /dynamic shooting in Ireland is a non runner .

A weapon is something used offensively against another person, we shoot sporting firearms .

Midlands range have no guns you can hire , all firearms used there are licenced to the members .

Judging by the recent statements my our Minister for Justice , No new pistol licences will be issued and yours would be a new application and therefore a new licence .

so in answer to the OP's question , I'm sorry ...you can't transfer your pistols here and hope to licence them . Information as to what you can or cant do in the UK looks largly suspect too.

I suggest a phone call to the relevant official bodies .

steppen

Sparks wrote: »

More folks are showing up to shoot in competitions (before they'd just plink down the range), they're shooting higher scores, we're starting to send off people to international matches (we just sent the first civilian ISSF air pistol shooter there a month ago), and we're running more and more matches. It's not just about how many have pistols, but how they use them as well (which isn't to say we don't want more at the base, but before now all we had was the base, there wasn't any pyramid going on ).

These people you are sending off to comps have their own weapons to train with, or is just turn up to the range take whats available and train? When they go to comps, they have their own weapon or just take a range gun?

I have no experience with air pistols, and limited experience with .22 pistols, but with the 9mm there are obviously great differences between guns, unless you are using the same weapon for training, how can one expect to better himself and get better groupings?

I'm hoping that if I can show some recommendations from the gun clubs I am a member of and some comp results, the Super would approve the licence, but with this new legislation it seems to be a lost cause?

It would annoy me greatly to have to stop the sport because of this idiocy

b52 wrote: »

HI.lads. It seem to me that you want to lead Steppen down the wrong road before he ever gets to shoot here in Ireland. Where ever he has got his information from alot of it is false. The MIDLANDS RANGE do not charge 400 euro to join ,weaponds are not used in target sports, you can not hire out firearms to use on the range and no training is carried out with weapons.i on the range.

well to be honest, the 400 figure is from when I called them and asked, this would have been last year?? (or thereabouts)....400 hundred for the first year and down to 300 every year after.

you say weapons are not used in target sports????

AFAIK you can hire out .22 rifles at the range but i dont think handguns,

from what I recall from some earlier researching I did on the subject, there is a range in wicklow in which you can hire out handguns,

but this was a year or so ago

Sparks

steppen wrote: »

These people you are sending off to comps have their own weapons to train with

I know it seems a small point, but please - they're not weapons. They're firearms. Calling them a weapon is implying that they're used to harm other people. It's taken us years to point this out to the DoJ and Gardai successfully, it'd be nice if all of us shooters could keep it in mind as well!

or is just turn up to the range take whats available and train?

There's a mix. In clubs like RRPC, DURC, UCDRC, WTSC and others, there are club firearms that can be used by beginners. Some clubs, like WTSC, will let more experienced shooters use club firearms for longer when it's fair, like with student members. In other clubs, that arrangement isn't there.

I'm hoping that if I can show some recommendations from the gun clubs I am a member of and some comp results, the Super would approve the licence, but with this new legislation it seems to be a lost cause?

It might well be We won't know until we see the Misc. Provisions bill, and everything's a mess until then.

It would annoy me greatly to have to stop the sport because of this idiocy

You and every other shooter out there.

from what I recall from some earlier researching I did on the subject, there is a range in wicklow in which you can hire out handguns

There was a rumour to that effect, which greatly annoyed the range in question.

jaycee

steppen wrote: »

well to be honest, the 400 figure is from when I called them and asked, this would have been last year?? (or thereabouts)....400 hundred for the first year and down to 300 every year after.

Midlands Range .Annual membership fee - 275 Euro
First Year - 575 euro (Includes 300 euro Registration /joining fee)

you say weapons are not used in target sports????

Firearms used for all target sports ..are referred to as Firearms , or sporting firearms .. we do not refer to them as weapons.

AFAIK you can hire out .22 rifles at the range but i dont think handguns,

There are no firearms available to rent in Midlands range of any sort.

from what I recall from some earlier researching I did on the subject, there is a range in wicklow in which you can hire out handguns,

That is not the case.
There is no club in Ireland where you can hire a centerfire rifle or pistol.

In fact , all ranges and clubs i have visited used guns which were the property of the members and licenced to them. I am referring to centerfire rifles and pistols

The situation may be different with regard to air pistol and target 22 clubs etc. , but i am unclear on their procedures.
Therefore I wont speculate on how those clubs /ranges operate ,but leave it to the people involved with those to clarify the situation.

steppen

well doesnt look good overall,

i'll get in touch with the relevant authorities in the district I'll be living in

if i cant bring the firearms over, it's bloody frustrating. i can't believe there isnt any other solution,

Sparks

it's bloody frustrating

I wish I could say it gets better...

Grizzly 45

steppen wrote: »

well doesnt look good overall,

i'll get in touch with the relevant authorities in the district I'll be living in

if i cant bring the firearms over, it's bloody frustrating. i can't believe there isnt any other solution,

There is ;
Stay put in Hungary,:).

If you cant do that;
Get over here ,get yourself set up with your job ,leave the guns in Hungary.
Go and check out the NI situation,where they are not paranoid about practical pistol,or handguns overly much and join a club up there , import and store the guns up there as club guns.PITA I know,what with distance travel and all,but it might be the only solution for alot of us here in the Republic.:(