HELP!

domrush

Hi,
This is my first time on the forums just got a couple of questions about the industry at the mo. My dream is to be a producer in a studio running my own projects on the side.

I'm doing my LC right now and had planned to go to the Sound Training centre in Temple Bar to do this course [HTML][/HTML]http://www.soundtrainingcentre.com/coursedetail.php?id=1[HTML][/HTML]. I then planned to go to UL to do this course http://www.qualifax.ie/?Mainsec=courses&Subsec=course_details&ID=13220&CSH_ID=18&AdvancedKeyword=. Then i was gonna go to do a masters in trinity in music production and tech.

Just wanted people's thoughts on this and whether there is a better way to getinto the industry or if there is even jobs available??? Would i need to do all thee courses to achieve mydream?

tweeky

If you feel you need to do the course to gain a knowledge of Sound Engineering/Production it would be wrong to discourage you, but that's a lot of cash (€5000 odd plus expenses of food/travel/rent and that's just the TLMC course) and you will still leave the course without no gaurauntee of a job.
Personally i would buy a bit of gear (macbook/interface/preamps/mikes) and get into the trenches of recording, and read everything you can on the net/ref books, not only will you gain first hand experience but will also show some initiative and gain some good contacts. As for a Masters wtf! do you seriously think U2/Muse/Beyonce etc. look for a certificate or a degree etc, when they look for a producer... not likely, it's the talent and the success of past projects that come first.
If when i did the Leaving Cert a Sound Course was available i probably would have jumped at it, with experience as useful as they are for knowledge nothing beats practical experience if you can get it. Best of luck though whatever your choice.

Aridstarling

I'm doing the Music Tech course in Maynooth at the moment, its a waste of time to be totally honest. Do an IT course or something, something thats useful, and do the music on the side, do friends bands for free, record everything and everyone you can until you figure things out and then try and get some experience in a studio, working for free until they think you're worth paying to keep around! Its not going to be easy though, theres an awful lot of people with the same dream (me!;)). Just be realistic and work really hard, maybe you'll get somewhere.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

as the wise ones above have said

if you think courses are the way to reach your goal , then do courses .

or

if you think doing parts of the goal in whatever way possible right now , helps you reach the ultimate goal - then do that - and read a few books along the way .
( like buying a small home studio setup and start recording / producing )

i know which one i would choose ( and which person i would hire ) .


if you cant manage to do it in your bedroom - you havent a chance in the real world.


do you have passion ? discipline ? commitment ? focus ?
these are the gateopeners on the road to the dream.

and while im not knocking courses - while you are studenting away in college
some dude with a laptop a digi , protools and a mic is busily working on doing the dream . ( and he / she probably started when he was 12 )


just go do it , and read while doing it .

studiorat

First thing you should seriously consider moving out of Ireland.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

rat brings up another good point - dont play too safe -
- you get nowhere without taking a risk .
this could be - investing money , time , energy ,social life , moving country
whatever .

to work a field you call your dream or in a creative field - you have to go out on a creaking limb at some stage , and many times in reality .

now bear with with me on this :

you have to show the "gods" for want of a better word , that you really want it , you have to make sacrifices , you create your own luck .
you have to do , do , do, do , and keep doing . and whisper a word of thanks each time you make a breakthru and get a further step along the road.

you keep chipping at that stone and eventually a pick axe will magically appear
.

just dont give up- if you really want it .

PMI

First thing to do is realise your in this for the long haul...

Dreams will come but later on.... personally I would never employ someone from a college as they tend to be stuck in their ways and try to tell you what to do and often quite verbal... ha

Usually I would say dont bother with college but in this case I would say if you can go into it with the frame of mind of this is to learn and develop what I already have then its ideal....

outside of college keep learning and building your own setup and work style and work with as many people as you can and try and push your own unique thing which everyone has but sometimes fail to develop.

I meet sooooooooooooooooo many people who say they are doing courses who unfortunatly think that college = exam = job and these days its not the case....

just look at the forum and the guys who you are immediatly up against in order to make a living from it.

Bottom line go for it but be clear in your vision

Good Luck

Ed

domrush

Lads you've convinced me to go for it no matter what happens. These forums are a revelation!:D

TelePaul

domrush wrote: »

These forums are a revelation!:D

No doubt! If ya go for music production after the LC you'll probably find yourself hanging here quite a bit!

PaulBrewer

Aridstarling wrote: »

I'm doing the Music Tech course in Maynooth at the moment,

What's bad about it Arid?

jimi_t

Just saw that music tech masters in TCD - has anyone done it? I can't quite seem to grasp the pre-requisites required to apply... what would I need to get in terms of an undergraduate degree to qualify?

Aridstarling

PaulBrewer wrote: »

What's bad about it Arid?

Well its just too basic. I would consider myself a beginner but I could easily count on one hand the things I've learned on the course. With the exception of the Acoustics module, it has been a total waste of time. I'm having a similar discussion here; http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=59355396&posted=1#post59355396

At the moment, I'm trying to figure out whether or not I should go back next year. If I could find a better option I would. I'm thinking of trying the STC but its an expensive course and I'm really not made of money. It all depends on what sort of experience I can get over the summer.

PMI

Most stuff can be learned at home..... You've got a kettle havent you?? so get working !!!!

When I think back to my early days I learned everything by hands on....

@ 17 (1992) my day would consist of lining up tape machines, ordering 2" tapes, Dats etc.. doing total recalls on the SSL (E series so no automatic **** here) ordering in kit, micing up, teas, running erands and then might get 20 mins in studio just to watch artist, producer,engineer and programmer (please note 4 guys to do job) with most importanly my MOUTH SHUT ! o yeah and then Tea again..... ha

IMHO 97% of guys leaving courses wont find work and also wont be employable as they are all text book and not unique

I think its better to learn everything you ever do in life from the worst teacher going and shes called experience

Seziertisch

jimi_t wrote: »

Just saw that music tech masters in TCD - has anyone done it? I can't quite seem to grasp the pre-requisites required to apply... what would I need to get in terms of an undergraduate degree to qualify?

I know quite a few people who have done it. They found it really good, felt they learned a lot, and that it really expanded their musical horizons.

They came to it from a variety of different backgrounds and undergraduates. The main thing it to prove your own musicality and creativity in your application.

You should probably just contact the department there directly.

Aridstarling

PMI wrote: »

Most stuff can be learned at home..... You've got a kettle havent you?? so get working !!!!

When I think back to my early days I learned everything by hands on....

@ 17 (1992) my day would consist of lining up tape machines, ordering 2" tapes, Dats etc.. doing total recalls on the SSL (E series so no automatic **** here) ordering in kit, micing up, teas, running erands and then might get 20 mins in studio just to watch artist, producer,engineer and programmer (please note 4 guys to do job) with most importanly my MOUTH SHUT ! o yeah and then Tea again..... ha

IMHO 97% of guys leaving courses wont find work and also wont be employable as they are all text book and not unique

I think its better to learn everything you ever do in life from the worst teacher going and shes called experience

But how does one get that experience? This is the problem these days. Nobody can afford to take chances on "kids" anymore.

I've lots of experience of working at home, from recording everything I could find to mixing and shoddy mastering (I am also a tea + biscuit fanatic, so I think thats in my favour. Spicy black chai and a home-made scone from House of Cha, ohh yes ). I've miked up everything I have, guitars, banjos, mandolins, keyboards, drums, basses, recorders, clarinets, televisions sets, everything I could get my hands on. I'll play almost any Western instrument (except drums, though I know how to work a drum machine pretty well and am constantly recording drums to a very high level at home) and I'm a decent songwriter/bandleader and know how bands work. I've edited podcasts that go out to thousands of people, I'm quite familiar with wave editing, I've created entire songs out of a single click of a metronome, I understand acoustic principles, I have decent phone manners, I've worked in pubs so I know how to deal with people, I'm familiar with how almost every piece of equipment you can throw at me (analog or digital) works, I've recorded myself, my friends bands and my brothers bands and gotten better each time. I learn quickly and I know when to stay quiet.

I have no opinion of myself as a professional yet but I know I could be a damn good one given the chance. I have a million and one things to learn about this job but I know I can learn them. But still, no job. Not even a small bit of experience. I'm willing to work long hours for zero money until I've proven myself useful to have around but that doesn't seem to matter these days.

/rant.

studiorat

There's never been many jobs in studio engineering, even fewer now. Doing a course gives you a good foundation in what you may need to know working in a studio though it's unlikely that you'll get to use any engineering skills for a few years afterward.

I really don't know if being a good musician and play lots of instruments is helpful or not , if I was going for a job in a studio I'd probably play that down a little and push the techie aspect.
Maybe if you are the kind of producer who makes tracks for singers that's well and good. Some producers I've met are fantastic musicians and know very little about the ins and outs of the technical side. Others, like me I suppose, are terrible musicians but have a deep understanding of the tech stuff a good musical ear is essential in all cases. People skills are probably the most important and an innate ability to schmooze like Tom Cruise!!!

madtheory

Well put studiorat. Nothing more can be added to that post! Except, maybe, don't even mention the muso stuff, if you're going for an engineer's job. The boss sees that and reads between the lines "I want to be a star, and use your studio for free".

PMI

yeah alot of it comes down to what your aim is....

The word producer is more like a jack of all trades now than in the past.

most producers that earn money can engineer, and mix to a degree but often pass the mix to a mix engineer and then off to a mastering house of their choice.

So work as an engineer alone is not going to be very lucrative unless your aim is to be the big bad boy of 7:1 mixing as most of them boys are US / UK based !

Aridstarling

Thanks Studiorat, I'll definitely keep that in mind in the future. Also, I'm far from a muso, trust me! I can shmooze like the Cruise though...;)