40% of energy from renewables by 2020 .. can we do it?

zod

Taken from the Green Parties new "Green Deal"

Ireland has the natural and human resources to become a world leader in renewable energy. Eamon Ryan last year set a 40 per cent renewables target for energy generation by 2020, one of the highest inthe world. He has made significant improvements in price supports for renewable energy generation. Consequently, over the next two years an estimated €400 million will be spent by the private sector building an additional 400mw of wind power to meet our 2010 target for 15% of our power to come from renewable electricity supplies.
ESB, EirGrid and Bord Gáis are investing over €1 billion in 2008 and 2009 alone in extending and upgrading the national
electricity and gas distribution and transmission networks. ESB will invest an unprecedented €22 billion by 2020 in the electricity network, the National Smart Meter programme and renewable energy
R&D and commercialisation projects. Bord Gais has also committed to spending €5 billion on renewables over the coming
decade. Intensifying research and development
in renewable technologies is central to securing our energy future. Ireland is emerging as a global location for such
research, now forming the third pillar of Science Foundation Ireland’s mission. Eamon Ryan’s department is at the cutting edge of research into Ocean Energy. More than €10 million has been pumped into five separate research projects to harness the energy of the sea. This high level research and development will make ocean energy a reality and Ireland a world leader in this new technology.

AngryHippie

There are plenty of tradesmen out of work in the country, enough to supply any shortage created by a surge in renewable energy infrastructure, The benefits will are obvious in the medium to long term, and It'll be at least as successfull as a stimulus package at getting money back into the economy, plus the end result will be a net drop in imports of oil for power generation, in quantity if not in value. The only stumbling block is the nimby culture that has been pandered to by the planning system and local govt. strucure.:rolleyes:

Cookie_Monster

I ssee no reason why it cannot be higher, especially if some technology other than wind and solar are pursued more vigourously. That tidal turbine in Strangerford Lough for example. If we had a load of them around the coast I'm sure they would contribute a signifigant amount of the target.

Micro generation is the real way forward in regard to this target though. Wasn't there some study done in Scotland that showed if every farm in the country had a mini turbine they had the potential to power the entire country

djpbarry

It's an ambitious target, but it's certainly possible. As Cookie_Monster says, moving away from the idea that electricity comes from a power "plant" is a key enabler.

robtri

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Micro generation is the real way forward in regard to this target though. Wasn't there some study done in Scotland that showed if every farm in the country had a mini turbine they had the potential to power the entire country

but if every farm had a micro wind turbine and they used this to power scotland, what happens when the wind stops blowing strong enough for a while?

djpbarry

robtri wrote: »

but if every farm had a micro wind turbine and they used this to power scotland, what happens when the wind stops blowing strong enough for a while?

I don't think it was being suggested that we should rely solely on wind energy.

Cookie_Monster

robtri wrote: »

but if every farm had a micro wind turbine and they used this to power scotland, what happens when the wind stops blowing strong enough for a while?

I dunno, I only caught a bit of the programme. I assume that the sheer size and range of Scotland would mean it's always windy somewhere. This coupled with batteries/capacators and other forms of generation which could also be renewable, tidal motion/solar/biomass/tidal flow/hydro etc, or conventional could provide power on occasions when wind will not suffice.

jobrok1

The whole country bar the border with England has open coastline.
Plus the Highlands. So it's going to be windy in most places most of the time.

ART6

AngryHippie wrote: »

The only stumbling block is the nimby culture that has been pandered to by the planning system and local govt. strucure.:rolleyes:

Absolutely. But it's not just local government. Central government sets the rules by endless legislation that almost seems to be designed to stop anyone doing anything anywhere. Politicians have aspirations. Civil servants dilute or disperse them. Throughout much of my career I have had to battle with planning applications and endless moving of goalposts half way through each application.

derry

? repeat post see below post for correct post

derry

My own preference would be to be for ROI to be 100% independent from fossil fuel solutions including not using any gas or oil feilds if we were unlucky eneogh to find more of that filth in the waters or land of ROI

Reality is we are importing 90% of our energy.

Theory suggests says we could reverse that over to importing less than ~10% and make 90% from renewables.

Now most projections suggest that even with a good shove and push form a willing government and peoples to convert more than 10% of power needs to renewables over a decade or about 1% per year is the typical best case senario without to go on a war footing .To achieve 20% per decade or 2% yearly would probably require huge sacrifice and hardship to all the economy and probably demand a war footing economy

That strongly suggests with our present 13% from windpower that ~2020 we can be 23% into renewables .

So this trendy Green party double 40% talk looks to be sh!t talk for the plebs to suck on


Now the problem we face as wannabe renewable types is to identify the real obsticales and most are not technical but financial and political..

The first problem is the ROI economies ability to soak up and finance or borrow money for big projects without to screw up the rest of the economy .This suggests that 1% renewables per year doesnt seem to impact or screw up the economy so far.
A doubling to 2% or more would probably require a war footing economy.

So when the polititions are faced with a small group from society who say supply renewables there are several hurdles to overcome.

First the enemy the fossil fuel suppliers which are oil gas and coal have nearly unlimited resources to obstruct and defeat the renewables with false publicity and false scientific reports.
Ever notice how governments and regimes hide behind science or worse suedo sceince reports as to why they cant do renewables as it doesnt line thier pockets so well as as old reliables like oil and gas

When I say oil gas and coal have nearly unlimited resourses I mean that oil companies have probably got more than ~200 years known oil reserves known only to them to them .
That they dont tell us plebs that is no big suprise and other studies suggest oil wont be depleted for ~1000 years at the present useage rate.
So we are running out of oil is a myth and for renewable types to adhere to that crap oil company propaganda makes the possibilty for renewables to win less

Best I can figure is all peak oil crap is written by oil company hacks so as to convince us to pay more for oil because oil is so scarce according the false info and needless to say the projections are from oil company figures .If oil companies supply low oil feild reserve figures its a no brainer eeek we gonna run out of oil soooon if we chose to believe that propaganda .

Like when was the last time you saw a independent government authorty drill a hole to see how much oil there really is .
The only case I know is Brazil as the goverment and the peoples of Brazil own the oil companies there.The rest of the world is kept in the dark how much oil there really is out there.

here is a example from Brazil of how quickly they keep finding mega big new oil feilds.

http://www.economist.com/world/ameri...ry_id=13110394

reproduced for legitimate education uses

economist.com wrote:

By 2020, if all goes to plan, Petrobras and its foreign partners will be producing 5.7m barrels of oil and gas per day (see chart), more than half the output of Saudi Arabia.

So if we in the world can in this decade alone find half a Saudi Arabia reserves and not forgeting the other finds in west Africa and rumoured new mega big finds in Indonesia seems the planet is swimming in this oil and the black death from these oil corpation polluting and enslaving companies it often brings to anybody unlucky to find it in thier region


Known reserves of gas and coal nobody really disputes these much as they seem to be huge about ~200 years plus for gas and ~500 years plus for coal.

This means the fossil fuel companies can drop the price of the fossil fuels down to so low as to make renewables uneconomic if they have to stand on thier own two feet.

Witness 2008 oil at ~ $150 a barrel and ~$2009 at less than $50 a barrel.


Most all renewables need oil to be priced at ~$70 a barrel to be economic

The fossil fuel suppliers often and can run oil at less than $50 a barrel for a decade mixxed with the odd short spike so we dont cop they fix the prices so as to kill of the renewables.

I saw it happen in 1974 oil crisis and the 1979 crisis.Wonderful renewables all died off after a few years with cheap oil

In 1980 ish I saw on TV a BBC money program special built big 4 bedroom eco house and mega insulation so fuel efficient that it only needed 100 watts in deepest winter to heat it with solar panels heating thrown in.Those solutions never got to the market place when cheap oil came back





When all renewables are gone then the spike the price for a few years and gouge us as we have no alternitive as there are no renewables and guess what we yet again resurect the renewables for a few years and then the renewables die of and the cycle will repeat itself if we let the fossil fuel suppliers do that.

So we then face another problem that we in ROI decide to keep dogidly making renewables the problem is the joe soaps on the street with suitable propaganda from fossil fuels companies start bitching why are they paying more for energy when oil is so cheap.

Also our competitive abilities in exports could be worsened with higher energy costs base and unemployement could grow.When the peoples have no work and energy cost are 20% of thier income and fossil fuel solutions offer the possibilty to drop to 10% its easy to see which way they will vote if they dont know how dangerous and devious is the enemy oil and gas companies.


Brazil is winning the the war because the Brazil government explained to the people the choice was eternal slavery to oil companies or make a war economy and do a big renewable solution and get rid of imported oil and fossil fuels abilty to kill the Brazilians economy at will of the worlds mega banks and fossil fuel suppliers


Then the good all fall back CO2 will cook our goose is now looking with new evidence to be a maky up suedo science that is only a way to make AL GORES United Nations endorced and excusive CO2 Brokerage firm very rich taxxing us plebs in ROI for CO2 emmisions .

So now we start to pay tax to a forgien UN world government wonderful

So if you dont want to give AL GORE your taxxes in CO2 you better stop breathing.Most voters being dead heads given the choice between paying offshore bandits a small CO2 tax or higher cost in making carbon neutral renewables will opt for the short term fix and pay these off shore badits the CO2 tax.

What they dont know is when the next part of the cycle in ten years time comes down the tracks the fossil fuel prices will spike for a few years and probaly the price for CO2 emmissions will go up.Then they will discover they are unemployed and when they cant pay the CO2 tax for having the stolen air with breathing and not paid for this air which AL GORE OWNS they will get a bullet in the head or have to sign up to a slave camp solutions where they work off the stolen air at slave wages rates.


So even if we manage to convince all, the dick head voters in ROI that we should do only renewables to get out of the clutches of the AL GORE CO2 slave machine and the Fossil fuel companies then we face the problem where to get the finance to make these these solutions.
Needless to say the banks especialy IMF work closely with oil companies as they make a fortune with these fossil fuel spikes rises .Offshore mega banks make a fortune as we build renewables for a few years and then we let them run down when fossil fuels are cheap.Offshore mega banks make a fortune when our economy tanks in high oil prices as they buy up half the gaff when prices for property prices crash and they can buy everthing cheap.Then Offshore mega banks make a fortune selling us back the property when the economy picks up.So how you can expect Offshore mega banks to loan the ROI money to get out of this blood sucking solution they made to milk us with these fossil fuel spikes which enrich the Offshore mega banks handsomely.

Face facts the crap table is heavily rigged against the joe soaps of the world and ROI is going down the plug hole as a Republic to become another stallig 99 slave camp in the EU federal enslavement regime

We will also run into issues with the EU regime which will own us when we vote yes to the Liborn treaty.They will dictate we must supply the cheapest energy solutions to the people so when fossil fuel is cheap .Then we have to supply cheaper fossil fuel solutions and when oil is expensive we have to supply renewables. Then when fossil fuels are pricy ROI will be forced to remake or repair all the clapped out older renewables solutions we made.At that stage we will probaly find most of the wind power stations or tidal power solutions are rusty falling apart from neglect from the cheap oil era and we pay a lot to revamp them.

ALso we are not allowed to subsidize the renewables through bad times or the limits to subsidy are so low we cant possibly keep them going when oil is $50 a barrel


Then we will witness over the next few years the green energy trend wagon and the investment into green solutions before the green bubble bursts. After that then most green projects are moth balled and we rack up yet more depts.
Last one out from that green energy bubble will be a sucker dont say I didnt warn you .
Just watch the fossil fuel companies make new laws with the kick back Regimes in power to stop green energy solutions succeeding with disallowing subsidies just in case ROI could become 100% independent with renewables.

Build renewable soloutions without the correct long term laws and if nessary the subsidies in low cost fossil fuel times and good governmets in power and you build on sand.





Stuck within all that mess is the abilty of the enemy tocorrupt any government.Poland and many Polish know Poland is sitting on top a huge gas feild and they dont need to import so much energy.So it seem clear that if the Fossil fuel sales thow a few billlion at getting the Polish government to block all attempts to extract the gas so Poland has to import fossil fuels.Whatever few billions the fossil fuel suppliers throw at the politions they make 100 times more back gouging the Polish with fossil fuel imports

Now the question in ROI is how slush fund resitant is the present regime or any future governments that will decide our future.

Now you know the 90% of the stratergy of the enemy and the offshore banks and the NEW EU Colonialism masters we have to serve who can easily block real renewable solutions to ROI .The real risk is they can ensure renewable solutions for ROI are only a token 10 or 20% renewables so we can be just trendy green flavour isle with a few token windmills .

Here is the thoughts of the native indians explaining how thier reservation economy doesnt work so as to keep them enslaved with the same Colonialism that contricts the USA on a bigger scale

Remember when we in ROI vote yes to Lisbon we become a reservation in the EU federal regime

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WQXTfltzOs

Rings a bell here that the technical solutions and problems are tiny compared to the economic and political forces stacked against ROI wining the war and making ROI 100% using renewables where like Brazil we could tell the big banks and fossil fuel supppliers to go take a hike .

I suggest we import a Brazil president and we might win this war to get rid of these blood sucking banks and fossil fuel suppliers .I DONT REALLY SEE ANY PARTY IN ROI UP TO THIS CHALLEGE TO PUT US ON A WAR FOOTING.

This is not a trendy green issue this is how to stop ROI becoming more of a Stallig 99 slave camp run by the corrupt regime to enslave us further

Here is a Irish site with more of the full piture of the ROI slave camp we live in and helps explains why we import 90% of our energy .
Ask why 30% of the fertile farming land of ROI isnt used and farmers are paid to not grow anything .
Sometimes we cant even legaly grow our own bio fuels due to some EU policy that claims to helping us save the enviornment .Oh yeah so we have to import dirty filthy oil based fuel

http://info-wars.org/?cat=3

It an offshoot from the parent USA sites which also explains the whole corperrate enslavement policies that are not interested to see renewable energy that work as that reduces the abilty to enslave the gaff with imported fossil fuels

www.infowars.com

If we can get 100% renewables in ROI we have a chance like St Patrick did to drive out these serpents of black death and the enslavement the worlds offshore mega banks and fossil fuel suppliers are trying to impose on us





Derry

robtri

derry wrote: »

My own ...<snip>.rs are trying to impose on us



Derry

good to see people are still being let express there views, conspiracy therories and all.....

maniac101

The title of the thread is a little misleading. The 40% target applies to electricity generation only. Electricity accounts for only around one third of our energy use. The rest is fossil fuel burnt directly for heat and transport. It's been calculated that we'll need 5500MW of installed wind turbines to achieve the 40% target. Over 1000MW is already installed, another 1300MW is contracted. There's a further 3900MW in "gate 3" applications. If these can be developed the target will be achieved. There was a recent study from Eirgrid I think, (can't find the link) that showed that up to 43% of wind was technically viable.

The overall Irish target for renewables for 2020 is just 20% of total primary energy requirement. This target applies across the EU. It includes a 10% target for transport fuel. The 10% target specifically, is well beyond this country's capabilities and beyond the capabilities of the EU, in my view.

maniac101

robtri wrote: »

good to see people are still being let express there views, conspiracy therories and all.....

I don't agree at all. Derry's posts are complete sh!te. His posts are a real turn-off for people who want a reasoned debate or want to inform themselves of the issues discussed. The forum would benefit from his posts being excluded. Apologies to the OP for going off-topic on this one.