Article: Thank You, Jeremy Kyle

Loxosceles

Article I wrote just completed today.

tl;dr: I grew up with social mobility and the accompanying responsibility for one's own life choices. This is a far better system than traditional concepts of social class, and Jeremy Kyle is ruthlessly teaching this concept in the UK and Ireland to the irresponsible and lazy. Good on him. I have no apology for sounding like an elitist when I am most definitely not-I am a good US Democrat, a liberal (not leftist!!!) and a believer in social programs- but I was forced to work harder for what I got and I know what good it did me, so there is no excuse for a culturally stratified lack of motivation in a nation with such unbelievable benefits compared to my own. -lox

The problem facing many Irish and UK residents when it comes to concepts of social mobility is, they often think that you can only be middle-class if you’re born middle-class. You can only go to college if your parents did, etcetera. So instead of operating with class-mobile goals and envisioning a future, many of those in England and Ireland who identify themselves as working-class, tend to stratify themselves as such without goals.

But in recent and modern times and with the onset of technology demanding a higher and higher level of education, the identity of ‘working class’ has become a lie and a shadow of its former self. Because of social programs instituted in the last 50 years, it is nearly impossible for anyone who actually works to be ‘working class’ any more. Having a work ethic at all nowadays makes you part of the middle class, and before the crash, anyone with a reliable working income at all could get huge bank loans to buy a decent home. But the remainder of those who live in council estates who are unskilled, usually depend in a large way on social programs and social benefit income. This has created a very large working middle class in Ireland and the UK, and stratified the ‘working class’ into a more benefit-class lifestyle that has a huge ratio of drug addicts, drunkards, unplanned pregnancies, school dropouts, and pure abusive chaos.

Enter Jeremy Kyle. As much as the socialists love to hate him, as much as people who identify with the working class feel angry and ashamed at how he berates and abuses the choices and chaotic, miserable lifestyles of his guests, you have to admit that his guests asked for help…to get 15 minutes of fame which, they think, will satisfy the ego-dream of “I were on telly!”

And what it actually does, is make those of us who take responsibility for our lives very, very glad that we do not post our issues for the UK and Ireland to watch- even if we make a few similar (but usually less spectacular) mistakes. And, it teaches those closest to the working classes that regardless of their sense of social justice, there are just some things that a social program can’t fund: chagrin and mortification at one’s own deliberately inculturated excuse to class-stratified ignorance.

Because I grew up in the United States, coming over made me wonder, how can there be a class separation here that is deeper than what we see in the US? Here, barring the ethnic Travellers, there is almost no ethnic or colour separation based on the anger of a whole minority at history’s social injustice, and the apathy of the white population to the past. There is no racial divide. Logically, to my American mind, this divide then should not exist!

Not only that, but we in the US do not have what you have. We have to work for it…hard. The image of a lazy fat Yank occupying an SUV is a cultural lie…if anything, an American is fat only because he’s slurping down fast food between going to the second job that pays the rest of the bills, and the accompanying stress is raising his cortisol and cholesterol levels to the roof and packing on the pounds. And the same truth applies to the stressed-out, work-obsessed, fat Germans as well. I think there’s a similarity, don’t you? So much for relaxed, thin, stylish Europe’s accusations of laziness, when Americans are actually a stressed-out force of motivated will, which I can attest, as I am one of them.

As for the mouth-dribbled, murmured accusations of recent US government similarity to Der Dritten Reich, remember: the US population still believes in American ideals, which enabled all of us to finally vote out the lazy corporate cowboy of a half-assed Hitler who won the first election illegally thanks to his rotten brother, tried his damnedest to overturn the Constitution with fear and corporate bullying, and somehow we still got to replace him in a landslide with a damn decent black man. Forget the Conspiracy you accuse us of…we were the one fighting it tooth and nail with our heart and soul, while you of all nations of Europe and especially Ireland, smugly cornered me in bars in Dublin to see if you had the golden, drunken chance to humiliate a Bush-supporter in a socialist attack of false moral superiority.

Back on-topic, my conclusion was: as heartless as it sounds, all this council estate misery in Western Europe is, to a great degree, self-inflicted. With social housing PAID FOR, schooling PAID FOR, college education PAID FOR, medical coverage PAID FOR and benefits that would make people in the US glow green with envy, there is absolutely no excuse for people to loll about apathetic of these incredible resources. None; I don’t care how much of an excuse someone has that their daddy got drunk every night and beat them, and they grew up with no goals. Spruce up and go get some; hardship is what motivates us in the US to better ourselves, and in comparison to the UK, we have had to struggle more than half our working lives to get exactly what the UK (and in most respects, Ireland) hands to people on a platter.

Whereas, the US government, instead of spending tax income on its own people (who are often still too proud and dumb to politically declare that what they pay in taxes is still theirs as well), historically spent it on bombs, police actions, hardware, army, navy, corporate lobbyists’ parachutes…while schools suffered, people could not afford college or health care, and decent hardworking people get kicked out on the street and declare bankruptcy caused by medical costs. Now Obama is promising to change that system for us, who have struggled far, far too long, and spend our taxes on us. It’s about damn time.

But as for the UK and Ireland? I am utterly scornful of the continued bellyaching that people do here, when they have so many incredible resources. The laziness and malaise that has overcome the council-estate mentality in the last 30 years is appalling. The first generation loved and appreciated social benefits and used them…but the next is a generation of brats growing up in half-poverty, half-handout households where there are no ethics and no motivation. In the US, we are forced to be motivated…that’s why many mistake us for rich and lazy, when in fact we have to be motivated to survive. Because, the fact is, if we didn’t make money, we would have nothing. We aren’t shallow, we’re practical, and having a middle-class ethic of responsibility gives us structure in which to operate our lives with purpose and direction.

And bless Jeremy Kyle for teaching responsibility on his show, humiliating them on screen for their childish, addictive, undisciplined thirst for attention that has them going to a talk show, instead of a counsellor who is paid by the health executive to help in the trenches of ignorance. Bless Jeremy Kyle for teaching them chagrin, embarrassment, and shame for the ignorant mockery they make of their lives, and their children who pay the price.

Because in Ireland, and to the working class in general, the most offensive thing you can say to someone who identifies with the non-working working class is: “I had a happy childhood, and loving, sober, responsible parents.” This is the phrase which will anger a hardcore socialist or Republican the fastest. The answer will often be hostile: “Well bully for you, you elitist tosser.” But the truth is, socialism won’t make you a good parent. Socialism won’t make you choose to go back to school, get off a cocktail of drugs, stop beating up women, stop breeding without goal or income, or stop blaming the working middle class for being ‘elitist’ when all we are is ‘responsible’. Social programs will help those who make the choice. But the decision to make that choice is made up of one, single, pure elitist desire to make your own life better in complete spite of the chaos surrounding. And because that choice actually IS available to everyone, it is, in essence, not elitist at all.

And Jeremy Kyle goes where most of the sober middle class give up and walk away, because most of us have more important things to do than mire ourselves in other peoples’ personal chaos. He is teaching the same ethic that makes us capable and well-established. Thank you, Jeremy Kyle, for laying the foundation of common sense, which should belong to everyone, just as much as the opportunity to better our own lives belongs to everyone as well. Nowadays, there is simply no longer any excuse.

And in a world where the superstition of the Church is no longer in line with science and technology, but the moral lessons still apply in good sense, we need a secular conscience to tell us that pagan chaos and self-indulgence is still inappropriate, results in misery, and we should know better.

Thank you, Jeremy Kyle.

johnnyskeleton

Loxosceles wrote: »

The problem facing many Irish and UK residents when it comes to concepts of social mobility is, they often think that you can only be middle-class if you’re born middle-class. You can only go to college if your parents did, etcetera. So instead of operating with class-mobile goals and envisioning a future, many of those in England and Ireland who identify themselves as working-class, tend to stratify themselves as such without goals.

I stopped reading after this, to be honest.

biddy21

me too

starchild

i enjoyed reading your post and some of it makes sense but as to thank you jeremy kyle


jeremy kyle is preying on people who have in the main lived tough hard lives, they are being exploited by his team of producers who are creating as much controversy as they can. They will say what they are told to say for money. To in any way laud this man and his show is foolish beyond belief. He takes pleasure in bullying guests and thrives on the adulation of an audience that is reacting to someone being humilated, can you honestly tell me that you can sit through that show and derive some pleasure from it

Loxosceles

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I stopped reading after this, to be honest.

Well then you didn't grow up with that attitude applying to you. Ie, you are most definitely middle class as most people on Boards are, since they are mostly literate and professional, or at least reaching for that standard.

Loxosceles

starchild wrote: »

i enjoyed reading your post and some of it makes sense but as to thank you jeremy kyle


jeremy kyle is preying on people who have in the main lived tough hard lives, they are being exploited by his team of producers who are creating as much controversy as they can. They will say what they are told to say for money. To in any way laud this man and his show is foolish beyond belief. He takes pleasure in bullying guests and thrives on the adulation of an audience that is reacting to someone being humilated, can you honestly tell me that you can sit through that show and derive some pleasure from it

Considering the fact that I was pregnant by my Irish partner in the US and was not aware of what my in-laws were, I learned that when I came over to Ireland while I was pregnant. I was appalled and mortified at how they immediately went after me to break us up, abused me en masse for being nothing more than my education, tastes and attitude (which was not superior at all), when I came over utterly open-minded and accepting and looking forward to meeting my new family. The treatment I got was shocking. And it worked: my partner, after being taken to the pub to be humiliated for being with a fat bird, never touched me sexually again. I actually ended up with an unconsummated marriage.

And thanks to their complete humiliation of every pleasant, educated, enlightened aspect of my life as well as my physical appearance, due entirely to class begrudgery and a lack of personal vision, I was exposed to attitudes that I would eventually start fighting and rejecting here on a near-daily basis when I moved my daughter over for the better health care and education.

I had to separate from my partner and live my own life because the culturally engineered social differences were too much for me to gracefully tolerate without utterly losing my rag.

So when I see Jeremy Kyle telling people like my former in-laws what losers they are, I cheer him on because he is allowed to say straight to them what I can't.

Jimmy Bennett

I was interested by what you said about the redundancy of the working class as a result of technological advances. However, Jeremy Kyle is an exploitative c"^t and the notion that he is a force for good in the world is laughable.

You seem very sensitive/angry about how people view your country. This defensive angry tone permeated the article from start to finish and undermined your argument. It could also have been a bit more coherently written. I agree with you on the misuse of the word 'elitist'. It's a term that seems to be thrown around a lot in the States at the moment, from what I gather. I can't stand it when people label as 'elitist', anyone with a privileged background or a strong will to succeed. As if it's a sin to be fortunate or to work hard and do well for yourself. Elitism is something else entirely.

Sadly, there is a lot of truth in what you say about government hand-outs. They can, over time, foster a culture of laziness and actually hinder social progress. What do you suggest though? Kick people out of council houses? End social welfare?

The majority of the poor in Ireland and the UK live in neglected disadvantaged communities. Children grow up in an environment where all the adults are on the dole, there are no role models to aspire to for future careers etc, drugs and crime are a part of everyday life and education is not highly regarded. In short, they live in a world so at odds with that of the majority that it's hard to fully comprehend.

The only way to break the cycle of poverty is for the state to creatively invest in education for both children and parents. Parents need to be taught how to help their children learn. The home is far more important than what goes on at school. The problems we're talking about are more to do with attitudes and (*gag*) 'values' than they are to do with money.

Visit a home in a disadvantaged area and you might meet an illiterate father, a drug addict mother and a child who burns out cars out of boredom and frustration. Do you expect this child to one day say to himself, 'Golly, I better straighten out and start working hard if I ever want to be a teacher/pilot/engineer '? It just doesn't happen. NOBODY succeeds in life without considerable help. This child may have no schoolbooks but I'm sure you'll find a nice widescreen tv and an xbox in the living room. We're not really talking about financial poverty in the strictest sense, it's a cultural poverty of ideas and it's much harder to solve.

At a time when it's difficult to keep a job, let alone find one, are you really suggesting that benefits should be cut and people should be forced to either sink or swim? Today, in the Western world, as you know, even highly skilled workers are losing their jobs and their homes. Do they deserve to be on the streets now? I think socialist ideals are due for a global resurgence. Hate to break it to you but it might be coming soon to your Motherland :P. Of course, they won't call it socialism, commie red bas**rds...etc

Jimmy Bennett

Ok so I just read your last post so now I feel understand your opinions. You had a terrible experience and I really sympathise with you. Always remember that you're so much better off without these people in your life. There are conceited cruel people in every walk of life. Tirades on boards.ie against entire socio-economic groups will never help you feel better. I wish you all the best for you and your child

Loxosceles

Jimmy Bennett wrote: »

I was interested by what you said about the redundancy of the working class as a result of technological advances.

That's quite all right. I really do like your response, it's very well thought out.

Jimmy Bennett wrote: »

I agree with you on the misuse of the word 'elitist'. It's a term that seems to be thrown around a lot in the States at the moment, from what I gather. I can't stand it when people label as 'elitist', anyone with a privileged background or a strong will to succeed. As if it's a sin to be fortunate or to work hard and do well for yourself. Elitism is something else entirely.

Absolutely. Could not agree more.

Jimmy Bennett wrote: »

Sadly, there is a lot of truth in what you say about government hand-outs. They can, over time, foster a culture of laziness and actually hinder social progress. What do you suggest though? Kick people out of council houses? End social welfare? .

Not at all. Throwing people into poverty would be inhumane, yet at the same time, it requires a shock to the system to instigate a change in habit. That shock should somehow come from within rather than without. But it's the drugs and violence surrounding those communities which are unfortunately often the only thing that provides the impetus for personal resolve. If there were some way to provide that resolve without tragedy or threat of destitution it would be a miracle cure.

Jimmy Bennett wrote: »

The only way to break the cycle of poverty is for the state to creatively invest in education for both children and parents. Parents need to be taught how to help their children learn. The home is far more important than what goes on at school. The problems we're talking about are more to do with attitudes and (*gag*) 'values' than they are to do with money. .

I know...I have the same retching reaction to 'values' only because I'm so independent and strong-willed that I insist on creating my own value system. But it required being taught *a* set of values in order to create my own; many of these kids have *no* values and end up choosing the most radical set of values as a result, which does no good either. Educating parents and enabling adults to see a light at the end of their own tunnel would radically alter these kids' lives.

Jimmy Bennett wrote: »

We're not really talking about financial poverty in the strictest sense, it's a cultural poverty of ideas and it's much harder to solve. .

Absolutely. A kid can have just the basics, but if the minds and imagination of parents live in a world of infinite possibility then physical luxuries other than love are essentially meaningless. The trick is to trigger that 'infinite possibility' nuclear chain reaction with a mass of ideas that reaches critical mass. The only way that critical mass can be reached is if it is scooped up and accepted by an open mind. So all those ideas are out there but people often just don't have a mind open enough to get to that state.

Jimmy Bennett wrote: »

I think socialist ideals are due for a global resurgence. Hate to break it to you but it might be coming soon to your Motherland :P. Of course, they won't call it socialism, commie red bas**rds...etc

Lol Oh I'm in absolute agreement regarding socialisation of medicine etcetera. I am redder than most American democrats. But revolutionary socialism against perceptions of elitism and class oppression really rub me the wrong way nowadays.

Let's just say I'm happy to be labour as Eamon Gilmore would never want the job of Taoiseach, but I can't stand the coalition. The rhetoric of Sinn Féin makes me nauseous and disgusted because they are attached to a nonexistent and stupid notion of class struggle that creates the very defensive conservatism that they call oppression in Protestants who have far more in common with the Republic's middle class, than the Irish middle class has with the Nationalist community in Ulster at all!! Ie there's UUP going over to Fianna Fáil, 'nuff said lol. But with Shinners it's like someone yelling and then calling it oppression when someone else tells them to shut the hell up. Ugh, enough.

But thank you for your reply, you have been very considerate and kind, far more than most and therefore very welcome even in your points of opposition.

lox.

johnnyskeleton

Loxosceles wrote: »

Well then you didn't grow up with that attitude applying to you. Ie, you are most definitely middle class as most people on Boards are, since they are mostly literate and professional, or at least reaching for that standard.

First of all, the point I took issue with is the idea that people get stuck in a class group, an idea you seem to presume rather than try to substantiate. Second of all, I find the suggestion that since most boardsies are literate and professional they are middle class is absurd and insulting.

But above all, you obviously haven't been paying attention to the era where the country's richest man is the son of a small farmer, the poor boy ended up one of Ireland's biggest property developers, the working class boy became one of Ireland's richest men, a young lad from North Dublin became our biggest rock star or the groundskeeper's son became the leader of the country. So if someone says that Irish people think you can only be in a certain class if you are from a certain class, it goes against the evidence of the last few decades. Ireland never had a defined concept of class in the same way as the UK did.

johnnyskeleton

Loxosceles wrote: »

And thanks to their complete humiliation of every pleasant, educated, enlightened aspect of my life as well as my physical appearance, due entirely to class begrudgery and a lack of personal vision, I was exposed to attitudes that I would eventually start fighting and rejecting here on a near-daily basis when I moved my daughter over for the better health care and education.
...
So when I see Jeremy Kyle telling people like my former in-laws what losers they are, I cheer him on because he is allowed to say straight to them what I can't.

Hey now, don't take your personal experiences and assume they apply to everybody.

K-9

Kyle exploits people based on stereotypes.

You should do some more research on his show.

I remember reading an article about how one of the contestants felt after one of his live, public shows, in a town square.

The guy in the article admitted he had learning difficulties etc.

The show didn't care about him, just the usual common denominator TV.

In summary, these shows do nothing other than provide a smugness level to the majority of viewers.

Loxosceles

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

First of all, the point I took issue with is the idea that people get stuck in a class group, an idea you seem to presume rather than try to substantiate. Second of all, I find the suggestion that since most boardsies are literate and professional they are middle class is absurd and insulting.

...Ireland never had a defined concept of class in the same way as the UK did.

Yeah. Everyone's working class no matter how much money they have, and if you actually have the cheek to define yourself as middle class, you get shot down for being elitist.

The truth is, a massive majority of Ireland is now middle class. They got on the work and education wagon to better their lives. Still identifying with socialist movements and popular revolutions is a lie that a lot of people still pretend to in order to sidestep that illogical fear of British elitism. It is essentially self-contradicting. I think people here should ditch the 2-faced game of playing for money and success in private, and showing a socialist and commiserative face in public, when it's the virtues of self-determination and rising above other peoples' bad habits, that launched them into the middle class to begin with. They should instead be proud of those virtues, (without altering the current social system to give people a hand up out of poverty). Encouraging those abusing the benefits system as victims, does nothing to help them make a determination to change their lives.

Class in the US is determined entirely by one's own self-determination to acquire success in whatever one does, and farmers exist almost entirely outside of any class system because owning land no matter if you live in a trailer or a mansion is a privilege. There is no working class. There is a small percentage of poor, a huge percentage of working middle, and a remaining small percentage of rich.

The sons of poor farmers etc whom you tagged are not working class. They are the rich and elite. They became rich and elite because they hated being 'working class'. To an almost unfair extreme, admittedly, whereas the rest of us just step ourselves upward in a more sustainable financial model.

And being literate and professional does, in fact, put you at an advantage. No matter what social class you see yourself as in. That advantage enables you to become middle class anytime you like in a successful and monied profession. If you are uncomfortable setting yourself out of the old 'working class' populism that fed the revolution, then fine. But it's a very different nation now than in 1916 and the old populism and socialism is giving way to a more enlightened model.

(When the minority leaders stop putting on this profoundly idiotic act of bogus moral indignation, blaming each other in the Dáil for the financial crisis and yelling at each other instead of actually DOING something. That sh!t is really starting to p!ss me off; there's a limit to filibustering and by now I would have dismissed and dissolved the government for sitting on their behinds and arguing instead of taking action. This posturing is severely idiotic and they all need a thorough bitch-slap.)

Loxosceles

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Hey now, don't take your personal experiences and assume they apply to everybody.

Personally, I think drug addicts, alcoholics, deadbeat fathers and irresponsible parents should be humiliated across the board and made to sweat that little chavvy sneer right off their faces. It would be a righteous slap in the face for all the humiliation those kinds of people have tried to pile on me. I think their opinions _should_ be dismissed as valueless until they show responsibility for their own lives, because even someone who is learning disabled can improve their life in their own way and have a vision of the future that is their own.

And the kicker is, they know the show, they watch the show, and they themselves _call in to_ the show to get their airtime: the act of going on JK is entirely 100% voluntary and people already know what they're in for. If someone wants to air their dysfunction for 15 minutes of fame, they are perfectly welcome to do so and pay the price. And if they feel belittled to the point of wanting to crawl in a hole and disappear, then the therapy worked, and they can come on 6 months later to dispel that humiliation, brag about a life they transformed, and get the applause they want instead of the infamy they thought they wanted.

johnnyskeleton

Loxosceles wrote: »

Yeah. Everyone's working class no matter how much money they have, and if you actually have the cheek to define yourself as middle class, you get shot down for being elitist.

You're not even reading my posts, I said nothing of the kind and nothing even remotely connected. FWIW, I often joke that the working class is sometimes seen as the people who don't actually have a job. I don't think anyone is considered elitist if they call themselves middle class.

Loxosceles wrote: »

The truth is, a massive majority of Ireland is now middle class. They got on the work and education wagon to better their lives. Still identifying with socialist movements and popular revolutions is a lie that a lot of people still pretend to in order to sidestep that illogical fear of British elitism. It is essentially self-contradicting. I think people here should ditch the 2-faced game of playing for money and success in private, and showing a socialist and commiserative face in public, when it's the virtues of self-determination and rising above other peoples' bad habits, that launched them into the middle class to begin with. They should instead be proud of those virtues, (without altering the current social system to give people a hand up out of poverty).

...

Class in the US is determined entirely by one's own self-determination to acquire success in whatever one does, and farmers exist almost entirely outside of any class system because owning land no matter if you live in a trailer or a mansion is a privilege. There is no working class. There is a small percentage of poor, a huge percentage of working middle, and a remaining small percentage of rich.

Thanks for telling us humble Irish peasants that we can aspire to be as good as you Americans and that we should stop with this left wing nonsense because the USSR went bankrupt.

Loxosceles wrote: »

Encouraging those abusing the benefits system as victims, does nothing to help them make a determination to change their lives.

What the hell are you talking about? Who is encouraging people to abuse the benefits system? If anything, there is mass outrage whenever there is even a hint of abusing the dole.

Loxosceles wrote: »

The sons of poor farmers etc whom you tagged are not working class. They are the rich and elite. They became rich and elite because they hated being 'working class'. To an almost unfair extreme, admittedly, whereas the rest of us just step ourselves upward in a more sustainable financial model.

Hold on now:

1) You posted that people in UK & Ireland are stuck in the class system
2) I said I disagreed with this
3) You then made a crazy statement that if you are literate and professional then you must be middle class.
4) I pointed out that a lot of people from working class or poor backgrounds went on to become great successess.
5) You accept that the people I mentioned went from working class to being rich and elite because they "hated being 'working class'".
6) Therefore, you are effectively admitting that what you said in the article about Irish being stuck in the class system is false, as I have proven that it is false.

Loxosceles wrote: »

And being literate and professional does, in fact, put you at an advantage. No matter what social class you see yourself as in. That advantage enables you to become middle class anytime you like in a successful and monied profession.

Your'e putting words in my mouth. I never said that being literate and professional doesn't give you an advantage, I said it was insulting to say that people who are literate and professional are middle class, thus implying that working class (and indeed upper class people) are illiterate and unprofessional. If you think being literate and professional is enough to make you successful you are very wrong, as we are seeing hundreds of literate and professional people joining the dole queues every day.

Loxosceles wrote: »

If you are uncomfortable setting yourself out of the old 'working class' populism that fed the revolution, then fine. But it's a very different nation now than in 1916 and the old populism and socialism is giving way to a more enlightened model.

This isn't about me, it's about what you wrote. You make assumptions about people that are too general at best and wrong at worst. It really grinds my gears when people who are not Irish think they can analyse us all, particularly when the most noted analysit of them all found us to be unanalyseable. How dare you patronise us like this - you are effectively saying that because you had a bad time in Ireland with a small group of Irish people you know who we all are and that we are petty minded and stuck compared to the great open mindedness of the Americans (I'll refrain from saying what I really think of this) and their amazing abilty to transcend all social and economic classes.

What is actually quite ironic about your posts is that Jeremy Kyle, as I understand it, is a show derived almost entirely from US shows like Jerry Springer etc.

Loxosceles wrote: »

(When the minority leaders stop putting on this profoundly idiotic act of bogus moral indignation, blaming each other in the Dáil for the financial crisis and yelling at each other instead of actually DOING something. That sh!t is really starting to p!ss me off; there's a limit to filibustering and by now I would have dismissed and dissolved the government for sitting on their behinds and arguing instead of taking action. This posturing is severely idiotic and they all need a thorough bitch-slap.)

While we are of like mind in condemning the government for not doing anything, you are wrong to assume that it is because they are yelling at each other in the Dail. The reason the government is not doing anything is because they can't. They have burned their bridges and realised too late that their army was on the other side.

Jimmy Bennett

Anyone who doesn't see class divisions in Ireland is living a very sheltered life. The term 'working class' is often inappropriate. As SKellington pointed out, it's often applied to the unemployed.

To my mind, in most modernised Western countries there is a large professional 'middle class', a small rich 'upper class', a small group who fit the old label of 'working class' and a largely unemployed UNDERclass. Now, I'm not saying that this is a rigid social segregation. There is plenty opportunity for social mobility and interaction for all people EXCEPT the underclass who are unheard, unseen and under-represented.

Modern technology has squeezed the working class out of employment, hence the creation of the underclass. Now globalisation is squeezing the educated middle class out of jobs. People have become cheaper than ever before.

Lox you need to watch your tone if you want to debate with skellington (or any Irish person). just give your opinion don't try to hammer us in the head with it.

I agree with both of you on several points

Jimmy Bennett

*skelleton. thought it was jackskellington

johnnyskeleton

Jimmy Bennett wrote: »

Anyone who doesn't see class divisions in Ireland is living a very sheltered life. The term 'working class' is often inappropriate. As SKellington pointed out, it's often applied to the unemployed.

It's a moveable feast.

Jimmy Bennett wrote: »

To my mind, in most modernised Western countries there is a large professional 'middle class', a small rich 'upper class', a small group who fit the old label of 'working class' and a largely unemployed UNDERclass. Now, I'm not saying that this is a rigid social segregation. There is plenty opportunity for social mobility and interaction for all people EXCEPT the underclass who are unheard, unseen and under-represented.

Exactly, but there is nothing to stop someone moving from one class to another. Todays upper class will be on the dole soon, and there are a number of people who are alienated from society who will come to the forefront over the next few years.

Jimmy Bennett wrote: »

Modern technology has squeezed the working class out of employment, hence the creation of the underclass. Now globalisation is squeezing the educated middle class out of jobs. People have become cheaper than ever before.

Really though, it's the people of China and India who have become cheaper than ever. There will always be things to be done and 150 years ago Marx said that machines would take jobs from the working class. What happens instead is that we get a society where there is a lot of money, and it's just a question of distributing that money.

Jimmy Bennett wrote: »

Lox you need to watch your tone if you want to debate with skellington (or any Irish person). just give your opinion don't try to hammer us in the head with it.

I agree with both of you on several points

It's not about tone, you have to substantiate your argument; either by reference to some internet link or else by reasoned logic.

Loxosceles

I'm not going to debate this article any further with anyone.

While writing a reply to this thread last night and logged into Boards my hard drive started up, I ignored the processing noise it was making and when I went to post, my internet connection had been terminated and my desktop had been completely haxored- but none of my files taken; this was obviously some sort of "Let's show her how smart she tinks she is" spanking by someone who used remote assistance to quickly wiggle into my settings, change them, delete one visible utility, completely terminate my internet, and wiggle back out lightning fast; it only took about 10 minutes if that. My dynamic IP means that the IP was detected through me being logged onto Boards and nowhere else and only during that time between connection and disconnection.

It took me 3 hours to try and fix everything with multiple calls to the helpline and then 20 minutes to give up, do a system restore and quickly call the trusty call centre to fix modem settings and redetect drives, 5 min, whizbang, back on, no harm done (lucky for you whoever you are).

It's too bad the sysadmin-wannabe OP in question who did this is a f4gg0t who was unable to disable system restore and unable to do any real damage due to my deliberately slow bitrate, dynamic IP and manual control of my connection while sitting here at my desk. Of course, he probably didn't want to; it was likely just a flexing of Angry Geek ego as more would have been decisively criminal.

After I heard the activity in my HD and the Internet died I rebooted, and my startup desktop settings had all been deleted, it was nothing but wallpaper, and one single useless but visible utility in my Control Panel (when I finally got back into my own profile) had been visibly deleted- obviously as a 'warning'. I had to get in by running msconfig and doing a system restore.

There is no way this was a virus. Besides running my software, the act was too...how shall I put it...'conscious'. And there were no new running processes...on the contrary, all the running processes got deleted and there were no changes to the registry. And I disabled ActiveX controls and Java a long, long time ago because I know better.

I disabled my remote assistance which is what I suspect was used. I have a dynamic IP but anyone can source IP between connection and disconnection so it had to have been a Boardsie, while I was on, because the only other things I sign onto are my gmail, hotmail, yahoo email and facebook and I never use IM and they were off- I always log off. The sites I use are severely limited. The only forum I've posted on is Boards.

So, whoever you are, you win, I will STFU since I don't deserve to have an opinion, voice it, or exist at all, for that matter. I have been raeped. I am a bold girl. Spnak me hax0r.

lox.

Blisterman

I don't know who Jeremy Kyle is, but he makes some good points.

Anti

I lol'd

Agent Smith

The Corinthian

Most entertaining thread of the week.

Cabaal

now this is funny, Loxosceles I feel for you....continue to fight the p0wer!
:pac:

Anti

Just wondering, if you were browsing the ... um.. i dunno ant and dec website, would you blame the short one or, the one with the massive forehead for h4xX0ring your pc ?

tbh

Loxosceles wrote: »

I'm not going to debate this article any further with anyone.
.

So, whoever you are, you win, I will STFU since I don't deserve to have an opinion, voice it, or exist at all, for that matter. I have been raeped. I am a bold girl. Spnak me hax0r.

lox.

I like you kid. You've got moxy.

Kinetic^

Loxosceles wrote: »

I have been raeped. I am a bold girl. Spnak me hax0r.

Did they h4x your post and mess up the spelling as well?

The Ritz

I read your first post, admired the perseverence of the people who took the time to deconstruct the (imo confused) narrative and provide you with opinions, was puzzled by the ensuing argumentation, got to your last post on the thread (the tinfoil hat one) and I'm here to tell you that no one hacked you PC, although given your skewed perceptions and paranoia, it's possible something got hacked along the way.

Heck of a way to exit a thread, soap-opera-esque, the sound of your stamping foot and receding footfalls echo here yet. For that alone you deserve a round of applause.

I remain vaguely troubled - I still don't know who Jeremy Kyle is, am I too elitist/middle class/working class/underclass/no class (select your choice) to want to ? I obviously don't watch enough/watch the wrong sort of tv. Who should I blame ?


Ritz.

K-9

The Ritz wrote: »

I read your first post, admired the perseverence of the people who took the time to deconstruct the (imo confused) narrative and provide you with opinions, was puzzled by the ensuing argumentation, got to your last post on the thread (the tinfoil hat one) and I'm here to tell you that no one hacked you PC, although given your skewed perceptions and paranoia, it's possible something got hacked along the way.

Heck of a way to exit a thread, soap-opera-esque, the sound of your stamping foot and receding footfalls echo here yet. For that alone you deserve a round of applause.

Don't think Boards.ie would suit her. Too many dissenters.

Kyle is a twat, I don't care the good he does. He shows what we all know, low life, to make ratings and a career for himself.

He is Springer lite, for a dumber audience who can't even discern what he is doing.

Loxosceles

It’s not that difficult to imagine. My ancient Windoze machine was virtually splah’d out for a multi-creampie gang bang until I finally bought a stupid Norton firewall yesterday. It’s amazing my poor system had even one T-cell left considering the AIDS involved. It would have taken only one jerk pinging my IP to crack his knuckles and get busy.

Agent Smith wrote: »