Skipping freshman years?

A_SN

I'm interested in the electronic and computer engineering programme at TCD, my main interest being in low level programming and software-based digital signal processing. However, I'm having second thoughts about the freshman years. It's not that I really mind being 27 in 4 years (if I go through with the whole 4 years thing) (well, tbh I kind of do), but I do mind learning over again what I've know and used for years, I mean, I've made an entire commercial image/sound processing program in C, multi-threading and assembly programming are old news to me and no API intimidates me, and I'm doing research in "super resolution" time-frequency analysis, so I'm a bit concerned with the fact that the senior freshman year seems to go no further than exploring "basic concepts of computer programming". On top of that I already studied in CS college for a year.

Surely I don't know everything the freshman years could teach me, but I think I'd be fine, and while I'm sure that thermodynamics and building structure stress are fascinating topics, that's not what I want to go back to college to do.

So my questions are, is it a bad idea to want to skip all of that? How bad could it bite me in the arse if something I'm unacquainted with is needed in 3rd year? Is it just a foolish idea? Has anyone done that? And most importantly, how can I even do that? Surely I'd have to pass some sort of test or show some certification results? (none of which I have, I've only ever studied in France and I don't have anything I know of that sounds anything like "HC3 Mathematics")

Mark200

Are you talking about the normal engineering course where you can pick computer engineering after 2 years?

I've never heard of anyone skipping freshman years. Are you sure you're even allowed??

But as far as I know there's much much more in the freshman years than CS. I've seen some of the maths and it looks fairly difficult.

Even if you do go on to just do computer engineering, it'll be presumed that you've spent the last two years doing all the other stuff so I'd imagine you'd struggle quite a bit.

And also don't worry about the age. Although the majority will be just finished their Leaving Cert, there's always a good few mature students of all ages. You wouldn't stand out or anything.

Yes, it's definitely possible. I know it has been done for students doing arts like subjects, and the idea is the same that you'll have to prove your competency with the department before they skip you. So you'll need to get in contact with the engineering school.

ApeXaviour

Perhaps just aim to skip first year, then sit schols in second year. If you get it, you get free accommodation on campus, free fees (if you're paying them), and free meals on weekdays for third and fourth year.

A_SN

ApeXaviour wrote: »

Perhaps just aim to skip first year, then sit schols in second year. If you get it, you get free accommodation on campus, free fees (if you're paying them), and free meals on weekdays for third and fourth year.

Not sure I understand, you're saying that I'll get my 3th and 4th yeah free of all the aforementioned stuff if I do the 2nd year? How does that work?

AlanSparrowhawk

A_SN wrote: »

Not sure I understand, you're saying that I'll get my 3th and 4th yeah free of all the aforementioned stuff if I do the 2nd year? How does that work?

I've been out of TCD a few years now but I'm sure the idea is still the same. In Senior Freshmen students are offered the chance to sit special scholarship exams in early spring. The exams usually relate to the Senior Freshmen course but are "more difficult" than typical annual or christmas exams. If students receive a 1st class in the exams they may (will) be offered a scholarship with entitles you to what Apex said.

You can sit the exams in any year, you don't have to be in SF but the exams are mostly relating to that course. The exams are notoriously difficult to gain 1st class in and are designed to separate very intelligent and driven people from simply clever people.

On a side, if you get a 2.1 in the exams you are usually except from some/all of the annual exams.

A_SN

AlanSparrowhawk wrote: »

I've been out of TCD a few years now but I'm sure the idea is still the same. In Senior Freshmen students are offered the chance to sit special scholarship exams in early spring. The exams usually relate to the Senior Freshmen course but are "more difficult" than typical annual or christmas exams. If students receive a 1st class in the exams they may (will) be offered a scholarship with entitles you to what Apex said.

You can sit the exams in any year, you don't have to be in SF but the exams are mostly relating to that course. The exams are notoriously difficult to gain 1st class in and are designed to separate very intelligent and driven people from simply clever people.

On a side, if you get a 2.1 in the exams you are usually except from some/all of the annual exams.

Oh yeah I read about that. Interesting, but I think it's quite unlikely that I would succeed there. I mean, I wouldn't go through SF year just to get a shot at that anyways..

Boston

I heard of people who did courses related to engineering being allowed to skip first year. But these people where also studying in trinity. I assume the reason you want to do this course is for the qualification? I'd suggest that you'd look into doing a masters somewhere instead. By the end of the four years you'll just about start on the stuff you claim to know already.

A_SN

Boston wrote: »

I heard of people who did courses related to engineering being allowed to skip first year. But these people where also studying in trinity. I assume the reason you want to do this course is for the qualification? I'd suggest that you'd look into doing a masters somewhere instead. By the end of the four years you'll just about start on the stuff you claim to know already.

Well, I want to do that to basically start a career in stuff related to digital signal processing, i.e. I want to get to work after I'm done with college. I was under the impression that doing what I'm talking about doing would get me there, it doesn't seem like you'd agree with that though, so what happens after the 4th year at TCD? As for doing a masters straight away, I'm not too sure what that consists in but I'm pretty sure my mathematical background is a bit too weak for that. Unless that wouldn't be about hard maths but more straight algorithms, but I doubt it.

Basically I have a strong experience regarding implementing things, getting what you want to work or understanding what someone else does, but not so much on the more formal stuff. That's like knowing how to speak a language perfectly fluently but not being able to enounce any grammatical rule or even remember what's an adverb.

ApeXaviour

AlanSparrowhawk wrote: »

On a side, if you get a 2.1 in the exams you are usually except from some/all of the annual exams.

It's a new system beginning next year due to semesterisation. Schols will be sat in January, and thus excemptions will no longer be in place

AS_N wrote:

Oh yeah I read about that. Interesting, but I think it's quite unlikely that I would succeed there. I mean, I wouldn't go through SF year just to get a shot at that anyways.

Why would it be unlikely? AFAIK, you need an average of a first in Engineering (you def do in science anyhow). So, going on what you said, it's quite conceivable you could get very high marks in the CS related subjects, programming and whatnot. And then just do reasonable well in the other thermodynamics/mathematics (in the 60% range).

So if you believe you are in a position to skip the freshman years, you should (given a bit of work and motivation) also be in a very good position to do well in these exams.

If you don't think you have the level of mathematics to compete in the freshman years I can't see them letting you skip them. Would they then not be giving you a degree without having a certain level of maths? An engineer not able (at least at some stage) to do a fourier transform, or a basic differential equation would be an odd thing.

Very doable, I know someone who did that for enginering.

A_SN

ApeXaviour wrote: »

Why would it be unlikely? AFAIK, you need an average of a first in Engineering (you def do in science anyhow). So, going on what you said, it's quite conceivable you could get very high marks in the CS related subjects, programming and whatnot. And then just do reasonable well in the other thermodynamics/mathematics (in the 60% range).

So if you believe you are in a position to skip the freshman years, you should (given a bit of work and motivation) also be in a very good position to do well in these exams.

If you don't think you have the level of mathematics to compete in the freshman years I can't see them letting you skip them. Would they then not be giving you a degree without having a certain level of maths? An engineer not able (at least at some stage) to do a fourier transform, or a basic differential equation would be an odd thing.

Great point! As for the comment on likeliness, it's just that when I read about it it sounded like quite a competitive thing, but the way you're saying it it doesn't sound that hard, mostly that I could very well excel in CS topics as you said. And you're right about the maths bit. While I very well know how to use a Fourier transform in an implementation and I know basically how the main formula is like, I don't think I know what's required regarding what you mentioned.

Boston

A_SN wrote: »

Well, I want to do that to basically start a career in stuff related to digital signal processing, i.e. I want to get to work after I'm done with college. I was under the impression that doing what I'm talking about doing would get me there, it doesn't seem like you'd agree with that though, so what happens after the 4th year at TCD? As for doing a masters straight away, I'm not too sure what that consists in but I'm pretty sure my mathematical background is a bit too weak for that. Unless that wouldn't be about hard maths but more straight algorithms, but I doubt it.

Drop these people an email http://www.mee.tcd.ie/~sigmedia/ They'll be able to tell you if you're maths skills are lacking. Tbh, there's a lot of maths in DSP but not enough to weren't doing a full four year course. You'd probably learn all you need in a one year intensive maths course. An option would be to talk to the research group above, they're alwaysi nterested in people who can impliment things, and they may come to some arrangement whereby you go to undergraduate maths lectures while working on a masters/PhD.

A_SN

Boston wrote: »

Drop these people an email http://www.mee.tcd.ie/~sigmedia/ They'll be able to tell you if you're maths skills are lacking. Tbh, there's a lot of maths in DSP but not enough to weren't doing a full four year course. You'd probably learn all you need in a one year intensive maths course. An option would be to talk to the research group above, they're alwaysi nterested in people who can impliment things, and they may come to some arrangement whereby you go to undergraduate maths lectures while working on a masters/PhD.

Wow, amazing suggestion, that would be perfect!

The Insider

I skipped straight into second year in the Computer Science course as I didn't want to do the full 4 years and felt like I didn't need to.

Looking back if I had the choice again I probably would do first year. Why, well even though I might have known the practical side of things quite well it would have been nice to go though them in labs\lectures where you can ask questions on things you are not 100% sure on... or even on things that you know how to do but are not 100% sure why they are done like that (if you follow my meaning).

Secondly there were some subjects which were relevant to 2/3/4 year in college which I never covered, which meant when these topics came up again I had to work much harder then the rest of my class to catch up.

Also if like me you are starting back at college after being out of the system for a while it gives you an easier introduction into the pressure of doing assignments\exams when you have good knowledge of the subjects already rather then going straight into 2nd or 3rd year.

The three years have flown by (in my final year now) even though at the start it seemed like a long way away so in the overall context of things I don't think an extra year would have made that much difference (though I am glad I am finishing now!)

Hope that helps.

Mark200

Boston wrote: »

not enough to weren't doing a full four year course.

That has to be the funniest typo / spelling mistake ever.

Boston

Hey, I've a deadline in 25 hours, my mind is elsewhere.

A_SN

The Insider wrote: »

I skipped straight into second year in the Computer Science course as I didn't want to do the full 4 years and felt like I didn't need to.

Looking back if I had the choice again I probably would do first year. Why, well even though I might have known the practical side of things quite well it would have been nice to go though them in labs\lectures where you can ask questions on things you are not 100% sure on... or even on things that you know how to do but are not 100% sure why they are done like that (if you follow my meaning).

Secondly there were some subjects which were relevant to 2/3/4 year in college which I never covered, which meant when these topics came up again I had to work much harder then the rest of my class to catch up.

Also if like me you are starting back at college after being out of the system for a while it gives you an easier introduction into the pressure of doing assignments\exams when you have good knowledge of the subjects already rather then going straight into 2nd or 3rd year.

The three years have flown by (in my final year now) even though at the start it seemed like a long way away so in the overall context of things I don't think an extra year would have made that much difference (though I am glad I am finishing now!)

Hope that helps.

Yep, great insight, and there's indeed lots in common between our situations. However I'm just a bit afraid I'll go "meh, boring" and just tune out quickly if it's too easy or worse, sounds like a rehash of what I studied years ago. To be honest I'd still rather see myself working harder to catch up with what I have to than get bored and get a sense of "wtf am I doing here, I'm miles ahead of my colleagues".

Motivation is unfortunately (or not) a great factor in determining my failures/successes, it's just much easier to work hard when you're motivated and feel the heat than to do simple homeworks when it sounds like a walk in the wood.

tolosenc

Dónal wrote: »

Yes, it's definitely possible. I know it has been done for students doing arts like subjects, and the idea is the same that you'll have to prove your competency with the department before they skip you.

If that's the case for CS, they have ridiculously high standards. There's a guy in 2nd year who the bookies wouldn't give odds on getting schols who hasn't been skipped. He's exempted from almost everything though.

Brian

A_SN wrote: »

while I'm sure that thermodynamics and building structure stress are fascinating topics, that's not what I want to go back to college to do

No, seriously, they're not.

Boston

obl wrote: »

If that's the case for CS, they have ridiculously high standards. There's a guy in 2nd year who the bookies wouldn't give odds on getting schols who hasn't been skipped. He's exempted from almost everything though.

Maybe he never applied or never knew he could apply to skip a year. Also you have to be able to demonstrate you know the material either from a previous course or industry.

skregs

you can skip the first two years in science and go straight into Junior Soph in your chosen subject, provided you have either a degree in a related field, or have passed 1&2 year in another college.

i know a guy who got to 3rd year in UCD and went straight to third year in TCD, and i know guys with science degrees from ITB who started in third year here too

so it depends on your course, and what you have already. talk to the course organiser

Boston

skregs wrote: »

you can skip the first two years in science and go straight into Junior Soph in your chosen subject, provided you have either a degree in a related field, or have passed 1&2 year in another college.

i know a guy who got to 3rd year in UCD and went straight to third year in TCD, and i know guys with science degrees from ITB who started in third year here too

so it depends on your course, and what you have already. talk to the course organiser

That's transfering university and not the same at all. I know someone who spent each of the fours years of his degree in a difference university. From memory these included NUI Galway, UCC and Trinity.