POBs and us...

niceonetom

POBs. If you are reading this you probably aren't one.

Here's an old blog post by Dave Moulton that I found slightly interesting, and it touches on some of the perennial gripes we read around here.

I'd be interested on people's reactions. Are we all cyclists as soon as we get on a bike? Should we put solidarity ahead of all other concerns, to present a united front to motorists? Is a "we're all in this together" attitude helpful?

Or would we be better served by admitting that, you know what, there are a lot of idiots out there on bikes, and they are the ones who present a clear danger, both to themselves and to us, directly and in a more indirect way through shaping public perception of cyclists and cycling?

Dave Moulton wrote:

Owning a set of golf clubs does not qualify someone to call themselves a golfer. A person might own a musical instrument, but they are not a musician unless they can play it. Yet anyone who throws their leg over a bicycle is immediately labeled a cyclist.

Elitist? Is elitism always a bad thing?

Chips Lovell

I'll go with number two.

Lumen

niceonetom wrote: »

Or would we be better served by admitting that, you know what, there are a lot of idiots out there on bikes

Would that group include people who ride at inappropriate speed in icy conditions, endangering themselves and others? :pac:

All generalisations are useless.

niceonetom

Lumen wrote: »

All generalisations are useless.

^
even that one?

Caroline_ie

No 2
But I think we're all someone else's idiot ...

Jawgap

I think I'm a cyclist with APOB tendencies!

Is the difference then between a cyclist and a POB, the price of the bike? If you start as a POB and cycle well, do remain a POB until you blow a month's salary on a bike or can you be a cyclist from the word go if you cycle sensibly??

niceonetom

Hmmm, so none of the people who usually object to phrases like "not a real cyclist" have bitten. Damn.

@jawgap - I don't think you understood the article. It ain't got nothing to do with the bike.

TGPS

niceonetom wrote: »

Hmmm, so none of the people who usually object to phrases like "not a real cyclist" have bitten. Damn.

@jawgap - I don't think you understood the article. It ain't got nothing to do with the bike.

the question was rhetorical!

Chips Lovell

niceonetom wrote: »

Hmmm, so none of the people who usually object to phrases like "not a real cyclist" have bitten. Damn.

Gavin

I don't really like the distinction. People in cars are motorists irrespective of driving skills/love of cars/number of cats.

There are professional Cyclists, there are Amateur Sports Cyclists and there are Commuter Cyclists. Within these sets there are the subsets of Cyclists, Shit Cylists and Good Cyclists.

Oh there's triathletes too, but they don't count.

If someone gives out about cyclists, you just say yeah, there's lots of crap cyclists out there alright. Annoys me too.

niceonetom

el tonto wrote: »

comedy

Not really. It's just a bit disappointing when you post something that you think might be slightly controversial, or at least stimulate a response, and people just "yeah...".

not trolling, but still unsuccessful whatever it is.

Jawgap

TGPS wrote: »

the question was rhetorical!

Actually it wasn't - I just misread the article.

I'm a cyclist who has to fight his APOB tendencies - bit like Luke Skywalker, it takes a bit of effort not to give in to the dark side and burst a few red lights!!!

Caroline_ie

I often use the term "Pedestrians on a Bike" ... and I do think this article is spot on ... and yes ... you can call me a snob, I really couldn't care less. :P

The_Claw

Gavin wrote: »

I don't really like the distinction. People in cars are motorists irrespective of driving skills/love of cars/number of cats.

There are professional Cyclists, there are Amateur Sports Cyclists and there are Commuter Cyclists. Within these sets there are the subsets of Cyclists, Shit Cylists and Good Cyclists.

Oh there's triathletes too, but they don't count.

If someone gives out about cyclists, you just say yeah, there's lots of crap cyclists out there alright. Annoys me too.

I think there's a lot of submerged confusion in the way we refer to groups. We definitely have a particular image in mind, even if the image is blurred. So when you say "motorist", or you hear on the news that "motorists will be hit by petrol price rises", you don't think of some 16-year-old lad doing doughnuts in a car park. At a greater level, when you think of "the Irish" what comes to mind is probably not the nerd from your class who went on to study biochemistry and is now working with Wyeth in Zurich.

I guess this is a long-winded way of reiterating Lumen's point that generalisations are not very helpful.

Húrin

I don't like distinctions like this. It reminds me of that copenhagen cycle chic guy who ridicules any cyclist that does not fit his ideal kind of cyclist (especially any cyclist who has ever worn lycra, in any circumstance).

Hermy

I'm a taxi driver - one of the most hated subspecies to be found on the roads - but I've been into cycling since I was a kid so I don't know what to say. There are people driving really expensive cars who don't know how to drive and there are people cycling really expensive bikes who have a similar level of ignorance but those of us who attempt to do the right thing on the public highways will always have to deal with other peoples stupidity regardless of whether we/ they are pedestrians, cyclists, motorists or just drunken posters.

Húrin

Hermy wrote: »

I'm a taxi driver - one of the most hated subspecies to be found on the roads - but I've been into cycling since I was a kid so I don't know what to say.

Hermy, this is probably off-topic but why do most taxi drivers seem to have such an assertive dislike for cyclists? Is it because they are not likely to be their customers anytime soon? I'm not just talking ninja cyclists who go round at night without lights; many taximen seem to have a chip about all of us.

Hermy

I would define us as every other person out there.
It's a taxi thing.

Húrin

Hermy wrote: »

I would define us as every other person out there.
It's a taxi thing.

Well, I certainly agreed with your protest. The state needs to stop issuing any new taxi licences, at least in Dublin. Probably would do no harm (except to a few individuals) to take some away too.

Hermy

Hermy wrote: »

I would define us as every other person out there.
It's a taxi thing.

This ^^ probably doesn't read as well as it's supposed to.
I don't honestly know why so many taxi drivers have such contempt for the rules of the road but by the same token I don't know why so many other road users seem to have just as much disregard for their own safety and the safety of other road users.:(

rottenhat

To be honest, if I spent every day driving around in Dublin traffic, I'd probably be quite embittered too. I doubt you get to see much of the good side of humanity driving a cab around.

Hermy

It's not all bad. Just the other day I spotted a lady out walking who stopped to clear some timber that was lying on a cycle path. It's always nice to be reminded that there are still a few decent, considerate people out there.

Húrin

Hermy wrote: »

It's not all bad. Just the other day I spotted a lady out walking who stopped to clear some timber that was lying on a cycle path. It's always nice to be reminded that there are still a few decent, considerate people out there.

The important question: how hot was she?

No, I actually mean, was she old? I'm concerned that this kind of 'niceness' seems to be generational.

blorg

Húrin wrote: »

The important question: how hot was she?

Clearly not very if she was out gathering firewood.

monument

Caroline_ie wrote: »

I often use the term "Pedestrians on a Bike" ... and I do think this article is spot on ... and yes ... you can call me a snob, I really couldn't care less. :P

If there's going to be any distinctions made surely it's going to be the other way around?... There are cyclists, amateur sporting cyclists, and sporting cyclists.

Look at it this way, those who are going around with sporting gear while commuting are akin to boy racers. Wearing lycra and a helmet is akin to boy races sticking out of place looking parts on their cars.

Just as boy racers are a subculture of motorists, amateur sporting cyclists are a subculture of cyclists.

Hermy

Húrin wrote: »

The important question: how hot was she?

blorg wrote: »

Clearly not very if she was out gathering firewood.

Tut tut. No wonder no-one likes you.:p

blorg

monument wrote: »

Look at it this way, those who are going around with sporting gear while commuting are akin to boy racers. Wearing lycra and a helmet is akin to boy races sticking out of place looking parts on their cars.

I resemble this remark. Are you by any chance in posession of a beard?

Lumen

monument wrote: »

Look at it this way, those who are going around with sporting gear while commuting are akin to boy racers. Wearing lycra and a helmet is akin to boy races sticking out of place looking parts on their cars.

No, the boy racer equivalent would be getting a ten-year-old Halfords BSO, attaching plastic aero sections and repainting it to vaguely resemble a Cervelo Soloist. Then adding spokey dokeys.

monument

blorg wrote: »

Are you by any chance in posession of a beard?

No.

ba

ha, that was a good read, niceonetom.

Húrin

I've noticed in my limited travels that the more cyclists are respected by road infrastructure and motorists, the more sensible their behaviour is, and even the bikes they use tend to be better.

Liverpool is far worse for cycling than Dublin even, and cyclists there seem to work entirely on mountain bikes, wearing black clothes, and swerving all over the place. The city council there gives them nothing.

blorg wrote: »

Clearly not very if she was out gathering firewood.

nice one, genius :rolleyes:

Caroline_ie

Húrin wrote: »

Liverpool is far worse for cycling than Dublin even, and cyclists POBs there seem to work entirely on mountain bikes, wearing black clothes, and swerving all over the place. The city council there gives them nothing.

Fixed it for you ( as they say :pac: )

scottreynolds

Lumen wrote: »

No, the boy racer equivalent would be getting a ten-year-old Halfords BSO, attaching plastic aero sections and repainting it to vaguely resemble a Cervelo Soloist. Then adding spokey dokeys.

Very funny.

Good thread although I don't understand the original post from Dave at all. I don't understand his logic. Suffice to say I'm a cyclist and a motorist but thankfully I'm not a taxi driver.

Hermy

:rolleyes: