The Unemployed - A means of bringing + change to their communities?

la la land

I had this idea, that with over 350k unemployed, they have an enormous amount of talent, ability and time that isn't being used.

At this volume (and higher , as it is likely to be), there is an opportunity to bring REAL change to communities, and local charities ... The unemployed may not have much money to donate, but they would have more time...

Would people be willing to spend a few hours of their job searching time in a local charity ?

eth0_

Very few, unless they were forced. It's been a long time since the Irish were altruistic.

la la land

I would like to think that we are better than that..)

Tabnabs

They talked about this on some radio station the other day. Get the government to pay for the materials and get all the unemployed builders to build schools etc. for the good of the local community. An excellent idea that for some bureaucratic reason would never happen... :mad:

la la land

I see that as more like free labour- which I wouldn't endorse..

I was thinking that it should be purely people-focused ... helping people directly, as opposed to building an infrastructure for free.

Tabnabs

Just like the dole is money for nothing...

It was to help your community, not have kids sitting in prefabs, help build a new structure for the fire damaged DSPCA site, sheltered housing projects, the list of worthy causes goes on and on, never mentioned infrastructure.

mdebets

Sounds like a good idea in theory, but in practice it would be very bad for the jobmarket, as all it would do is create a competition against which businesses can't compete (which business would work for free).
Therefore it would lead to more unemployed -> more free volunteers -> more unemployed -> and the cycle goes on.

la la land

mdebets wrote: »

it would be very bad for the jobmarket, as all it would do is create a competition against which businesses can't compete (which business would work for free).
Therefore it would lead to more unemployed -> more free volunteers -> more unemployed -> and the cycle goes on.

Not if it were plugging a gap - the social needs of the community - rather than soaking up business opportunities - like building schools!)

la la land

Dyflin wrote: »

It was to help your community, not have kids sitting in prefabs,

I understand what you are saying, but I feel the building of schools is a business opportunity for a construction company, if only the govt would cough up the cash for it - ..... i think focussing on the social needs of the community could help change the perception of the unemployed in the wider community as well as giving the unemployed a place to go, and something positive to do...

havana

We already have the Community Employment scheme for the long term unemployed (One year plus)

Granted, the scheme is far from perfect, but without it many, many community groups and charities would not be able to function and provide much needed services.

For the majority of people who have participated in the scheme I'm involved in it has lead to full time employment by providing further training, on the job training and experience while at the same time providing services that would otherwise not be available.

la la land

why do you have to be unemployed for more than one year to take advantage of it?-

CorkFenian

Dyflin wrote: »

Just like the dole is money for nothing...

It was to help your community, not have kids sitting in prefabs, help build a new structure for the fire damaged DSPCA site, sheltered housing projects, the list of worthy causes goes on and on, never mentioned infrastructure.

Dole is not money for nothing..Jobseekers benefit is based on prsi (social insurance) stamps..Its money people are entitled to..
You obviously don't have to get it yourself at the moment...I hope you don't have to..Easy to think your way when you don't experience it..Have been it on for 2 months (for 1st time ever)..I am 38 years of age...What would you have people like me do??? Take it away from long term unemployed..People with no desire or inclination to work, or bring in things for them..I'm bursting my hole looking for work each day...

la la land

hey corkfenian

you are exactly the sort of person who would be suited to taking part in an initiative to help the unemployed help the wider community.. would you be interested in using some of your job searching time to do some volunteer work - and if so , what sort of thing would you be interested in?

mdebets

la la land wrote: »

Not if it were plugging a gap - the social needs of the community - rather than soaking up business opportunities - like building schools!)

Unfortunately that not how it would work.
What would happen instead is the following:
Let's say you have two animal charities A (a very small one with just enough money to feed its animals) and B (a big one whit much money in the banks and a larg yearly income from donation)
In year 1, A needs to refurbish its shelter and has absolutely no money to pay for it so they apply for the scheme and get their schelter refurbished for free.
In year 2, B needs it shelter refurbished as well. It has enough money for it and would normally huider a builder to do the work. Now, when doing the budget, the board of management is of cours asking themselves why should we pay for something if we could get the same for free and use our money on the animals instead (legitimate question). They probably would apply for the scheme as well and get their schelter refurbished for free while the builder who normally would have built the shelter would lay off its people because the work is missing.
Within a short time, no charity would pay for its buildings because they would get it for free.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

eth0_ wrote: »

Very few, unless they were forced. It's been a long time since the Irish were altruistic.

By your logic, those volunteers who are on social welfare were forced? Nobody does it for any other reason?

Dyflin wrote: »

Just like the dole is money for nothing...

It was to help your community, not have kids sitting in prefabs, help build a new structure for the fire damaged DSPCA site, sheltered housing projects, the list of worthy causes goes on and on, never mentioned infrastructure.

Dole money is not for nothing... People need to get this stupid, uneducated, ignorant idea out of their simplistic minds. Sure jump on the band wagon and call us all lazy junkie/drunks... pfft!!! :rolleyes:

I do two days in two differant locations. It's not that difficult really. More could do it, as volunteers are always needed. It brings down the costs for the charity... It would be good to see more people doing this.

la la land

Giancarlo Witty Organ wrote: »

I do two days in two differant locations. It's not that difficult really. More could do it, as volunteers are always needed. It brings down the costs for the charity... It would be good to see more people doing this.

iamxavier,

do you do it through the community employment scheme , or do you do it off your own bat? i firmly believe that many many unemployed would take part in volunteering if it were made easier for them, and presented as a positive option for them...

havana

la la land wrote: »

why do you have to be unemployed for more than one year to take advantage of it?-

My understanding is to help long term unemployed to get back into the workforce as they may find it more difficult than those who are unemployed for shorter periods of time.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

la la land wrote: »

iamxavier,

do you do it through the community employment scheme , or do you do it off your own bat? i firmly believe that many many unemployed would take part in volunteering if it were made easier for them, and presented as a positive option for them...

I do it on my own, it is not a part of any scheme.

Mrs OBumble

Can you give some concrete examples of the sorts of activity you had in mind?

Someone mentioned social "needs" rather than infrastructure. However if they really are "needs" rather than "nice to haves", surely it should be someone's paid job to do them? (eg housework for old/disabled people, taking disabled kids on outings, helping in schools).

Remember, too, that unemployed people who are getting JB/JA have to be actively seeking work, and available to take it up. Would be quite difficult if someone did all the "setting up" for an unemployed person to do something, and then the person couldn't start after all because they'd got a job.

(Setting up may involve matching a suitable unemployed person and opportunity, Garda vetting, agreeing what's to be done, sourcing funds for materials, purchasing materials, organising transport, etc, depending on what's being considered.)

ntlbell

JustMary wrote: »

Can you give some concrete examples of the sorts of activity you had in mind?

filling in pot holes.

amen

iamxaveir great idea but a lot of ppl don't want to help and the shouldn't be forced to. Its great you can do it.

One quick question though in theory you are getting job seekers, long term unemployed etc and you should be available for work on the days for which you get a payment so technically you shouldn't get the benefit for those days you volunteer :-)

might need a law/rule change

la la land

JustMary wrote: »

Can you give some concrete examples of the sorts of activity you had in mind?

1. National Rehab Centre - Writing letters/emails for people who are unable to write themselves... or just being company for them...
2. Visiting old folks in Homes
3. Being the equivalent of a candy striper in local hospitals...

they are just a few ideas.. I would rule out anything to do with children on the basis of it being potentially way way too contentious..

alternative would be that it links people to charities.. ie the equivalent of a jobs.ie website where the needs of the charities can be filled by the volunteers.. in that way, the garda vetting (or equivalent) would be done by the charity...

I wouldn't be too concerned about setting up a volunteer and then them getting a job. there would be other issues, like no-shows. but that happens anyway.again, i see them as minor...

also, not concerned about them being job seekers.. in reality you can't be looking for a job 24 hours a day! - also, the community employment scheme exists. so there must be some way around it already...

i don't think it is about dictating to the unemployed that they should be volunteering. it is about presenting them with something to do -

hope that clarifies it a bit ...

la la land

ntlbell wrote: »

filling in pot holes.

not helpful!:mad:

Capt'n Midnight

you could expand the cso

you could invest in open ended research

you could create national parks and walks / clean up beaches

lots of litter wardens


we could employ them to build a wall and man the watch towers along the boarder to stop them free loading nordies claiming the dole down here, the wall would be an earthen bank made with picks and shovels

ntlbell

la la land wrote: »

not helpful!:mad:

It was a very serious suggestion, have you drove on irish roads in the last 30 years?

on average how many pot holes do you hit during an average journey?

how much do you pay in road tax?

pot holes have cost me a small fortune and you can never have enough pot hole fillers

in fact we could literally take the full 10% of the unemployed and have everyone of them working tomorrow

ownknee

la la land wrote: »

I had this idea, that with over 350k unemployed, they have an enormous amount of talent, ability and time that isn't being used.

At this volume (and higher , as it is likely to be), there is an opportunity to bring REAL change to communities, and local charities ... The unemployed may not have much money to donate, but they would have more time...

Would people be willing to spend a few hours of their job searching time in a local charity ?

I'd be thinking that yes, anyone who has a skill or service that is going to waste would be willing to help. One of the hardest things of being unemployed is not having anything to do. So I would definately be in favour of something like this. The only thing is that you would have to give anyone interested in doing this an official certificate or letter to say that they did actually participate in it for their cv. If you're unemployed & can't get work, but volunteer for the community then it should be recognised, it may be seen as a way of pumping up a cv but it can also mean that as well as looking for a job that you are willing to contribute to your community. It should be similar to doing a course but without the accredation at the end of it, or maybe it could have if the government approved it???
Lots of people are out of work at the moment, & lots of people can't get into a course because a lot of them have already started or places are taken. CE schemes will only allow someone who is unemployed to apply for a CE job if they are unemployed for approx 18 months.
So, your idea, I think is excellent & I for one would be willing to offer my skills for the benefit of my community. Then I might not feel so guilty for receiving social welfare for more less sitting around doing my best to hunt downa job.

doolox

It might do as a vehicle to give experience to people after they complete a course of training and have to get some hand-on experience in their chosen field.
Many voluntary groups in the States use newly qualified legal staff in this way as both parties benefit, the charity gets free legal work and the staff member gets much-needed experience to put down on the CV.
The government could do with setting aside building work for apprentices in order to ensure there is enough work to see them through the full four years of their apprenticeship. Many trainees do not make it through without some disruption due to redundancy or financial trouble with firms in the middle of their apprenticeships.
If a certain type of building was reserved for such people it might make the arrangement more stable and predictable.
Of course this won't happen without some form of protest or agitation to get it going and apprentices, being young and in a weak bargaining position are loath to rock the boat.
Third level students, on the other hand, are famous for their ability to protest and call for reform at the drop of a hat.
Many of them are on the bright side of the abilities scale, have a strong bargaining position and they know it.
Lets hope jobs done by apprentices become scarce and their position becomes stronger.

bigeasyeah

An unfair proposal.

la la land

bigeasyeah wrote: »

An unfair proposal.

unfair in what way?

la la land

doolox wrote: »

If a certain type of building was reserved for such people it might make the arrangement more stable and predictable.

Not sure if this would work ,as it would be perceived as creating an unfair market - What sort of building work were you thinking of?

la la land

ownknee wrote: »

The only thing is that you would have to give anyone interested in doing this an official certificate or letter to say that they did actually participate in it for their cv. ..

Agreed. It would need full govt approval. And I can't see why it wouldn't have their approval - Minimal cost (certainly less than a Fas course), the community benefit, as do the unemployed...

I think the key to it is having it as simple as possible for the unemployed to participate...any stumbling blocks - like recognition on CV's as you mentioned - could be overcome, if the will was there.

Xiney

In my experience, volunteer work is seen as worthless on CVs in Ireland. Absolutely worthless.


I was Chair of a computer organization for a year. I lead 40 volunteers in delivering computer lab and printing services to over 4000 students - it was a commitment of 40-60 hours per week while in my last year of full time education and on top of working 20 hours per week. Prior to being chair I was a volunteer with the organization for three years.

It was the most rewarding experience in my life and it was certainly a baptism of fire in terms of leadership, but it's done diddly squat to get me a job.


I've pretty much given up on ever being fully appreciated by an employer in this country though. Roll on getting back home!

ntlbell

Xiney wrote: »

In my experience, volunteer work is seen as worthless on CVs in Ireland. Absolutely worthless.

It's always been discussed in any interview i've ever had and seemed to go down very well

i guess it's how one comes across when talking about it and how it's highlighted in the CV

bigeasyeah

Regarding the original post,I think its unfair to even propose putting this burden on the unemployed.
My reasoning is thus.Its seems as though there exists an opinion of the unemployed being somewhat unproductive or even useless.By placing or even just proposing a moral obligation upon the same, one is strengthening this unfounded and unfair opinion.

havana

amen wrote: »

One quick question though in theory you are getting job seekers, long term unemployed etc and you should be available for work on the days for which you get a payment so technically you shouldn't get the benefit for those days you volunteer :-) might need a law/rule change

When i started volunteering many years ago i needed to get a letter from the organisation stating i would be given any time off i needed to attend interviews etc and that i would be 'released' from my duties if i got employment. When i was there a year i got on the ce scheme and less than 2 years later a full time job and since then a promotion.

I think the requirment to be one year unemployed should be relaxed but there are a capped number of places on the scheme anyway.

Mrs OBumble

la la land wrote: »

1. National Rehab Centre - Writing letters/emails for people who are unable to write themselves... or just being company for them...
2. Visiting old folks in Homes
3. Being the equivalent of a candy striper in local hospitals...

they are just a few ideas.. I would rule out anything to do with children on the basis of it being potentially way way too contentious..

Each of those suggestions gives you access to vulnerable adults. In some ways that could be even more contentions than children, because many of the adults have money which an not-so-well-meaning volunteer could steal. So the garda vetting would still be needed, and any kind of dishonest offence would count against people (whereas with children, dishonesty offences are probably ok!)

alternative would be that it links people to charities.. ie the equivalent of a jobs.ie website where the needs of the charities can be filled by the volunteers.. in that way, the garda vetting (or equivalent) would be done by the charity...

Like this one? http://www.volunteer.ie/

happy09

I have signed for volunteering but still waiting for reply....For some reason they are not interested in extra help...I guess

havana

happy09 wrote: »

I have signed for volunteering but still waiting for reply....For some reason they are not interested in extra help...I guess

Just on this point - I know it can be frustrating when you don't hear back but it should be remembered that at the best of times charities are cash strapped - and at times like this it's even worse. Often money will be focused on frontline services, to provide the much needed services the charity was set up for. This leaves less resources for the support services, such as recruitment/ volunteers etc.

Don't let it dishearten you if it's something you are really interested in - maybe just be more proactive, at least that way you should get an idea if it is likely to happen.

ntlbell

happy09 wrote: »

I have signed for volunteering but still waiting for reply....For some reason they are not interested in extra help...I guess

you could always go into them and offer to keep an eye on the application form's