Suggestion on how to keep our best and brightest

Titian Gal

Here's a mad thought on how to save this country and come out of this stronger than ever is:
Hire Recently redundant professionals into Information Technology. By that I mean anyone with a solid degree (except property developers – they have had their cake already) Solicitors, Architects, draughtsmen. These people are gifted in their fields. They may have computer talents also. A simple aptitude test would suffice to filter.
An architect and a system architect are kin. They are the cream of the crop, highly educated people. Turn their talents to the industry that is capable of getting us out of this - Information Technology.

These fine brains will be left to rot and take menial jobs because their age is against them. We should gather all the amazing talent in the country and make sure we don’t harm a hair on their head. These are the states biggest assets right now so get them working before they give up!!
I hate the recession already!!

thebiggestjim

Too late, I have already left.

Dord

Ok, but where are all these IT jobs going to magically appear from?

CreepingDeath

Titian Gal wrote: »

Turn their talents to the industry that is capable of getting us out of this - Information Technology.

The average programming team size is maybe 50 tops.
So you just want "us" to come up with about 1000 successful I.T. projects ?

(vague guess at 50,000 IT capable on the dole)

li@mo

Why not just create jobs for these people in Architecture, Design, Law.

That makes more sense.

They would be working in their own field and no need for talent conversion to IT.

Problem is...........NO JOBS........

connundrum

Teh computerz will save us!

CreepingDeath

li@mo wrote: »

Why not just create jobs for these people in Architecture, Design, Law.

That makes more sense.

Actually, you gave me an idea there.
Get some of the redundant professionals to help out in the third level education institutions as a sort of community service for the dole.

Even just a couple of hours a week helping student projects, giving talks etc..

Imagine if everyone on the dole had to do just 3 hours of community service each week, cleaning up the local area, run a sports club for the locals etc.

mikemac

Times must be hard for solicitors. No blood left to suck

jhegarty

Titian Gal wrote: »

An architect and a system architect are kin.

Oh yes, exactly the same thing :rolleyes:

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvrva8NoMLM

Pew pew lazer beams?

FruitLover

There are enough useless muppets working in IT without adding even more people who don't know what they're doing.

Solicitors should be soliciting, architects should be architecting, draughtsmen should be.... playing draughts?

CreepingDeath

Titian Gal wrote: »

Suggestion on how to keep our best and brightest

Confiscate their passports.

rainbow kirby

Bad idea. Either way, I'll probably be getting out of this country with my CS degree...

Orion

FruitLover wrote: »

Solicitors should be soliciting

Whole new industry right there - Law degree hookers

brianthebard

op wrote:

They are the cream of the crop, highly educated people.

What so there's no crap architects?

Unpossible

Its hard enough getting IT jobs besides swamping the market.

They are the cream of the crop, highly educated people.

Not like those IT people, I think someone is going to have difficulties loggin into their work system tomorrow :pac:



*hopes one of your companies IT people reads this thread*

vinylbomb

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Bad idea. Either way, I'll probably be getting out of this country with my CS degree...

+1

Straight up with you on that one.

Edit: You'll be a lot more marketable globally with a little experience if you've got some.

useful_contacts

Titian Gal wrote: »

anyone with a solid degree (except property developers – they have had their cake already)!!

what about people with degrees who couldnt find any work in something they worked 4 years for and ended up working in factorys?

ejmaztec

Futurama - Heads in Jars - problem solved.

zootroid

useful_contacts wrote: »

what about people with degrees who couldnt find any work in something they worked 4 years for and ended up working in factorys?

Exactly. I have numerous friends, educated to degree level, with 3-4 years experience, and unable to find work anywhere. Some have come over to Australia, and while they found work initially in their chosen fields, they are no longer able to do so, leaving them to find work in bars and factories when the recession is hitting those jobs too. Those that do find work are the lucky ones.

maninasia

3-4 years work experience is not much.......

Renegade_Archer

I left.


I make more money here
It rains a few times a year
Infrastructure is better (but by jaysus, you better have medical insurance, or you're dead)


Don't miss Ireland much. Maybe it's because I grew up in Drogheda.

luckat

Good idea, Titian Gal, but as you see from the answers, people are still reeling from shock, and are reverting to base smart-alec answers out of instinct.

You're perfectly right - in a country full of highly qualified and experienced people, intelligent, creative and willing to work hard, we should be able to use our sense, nouse and contacts to bring work in that we can do here and export.

With the internet, people shouldn't have to emigrate.

At the moment, though, there's a panic rush going on. In the last week I talked to a computer consultant for a government department (ex since Monday), an accountant with KPMG (ex since Wednesday) and an investment adviser in the IFSC (ex since last week).

When the panic settles, we will need plans and backup plans to get work for all these people which will bring money into the country.

Annatar

Ermmm just because a person has a Degree in one profession does not mean they would be worth a damn in another.

I have a Hons Degree in Computing, am pretty good at my job, but I would suckass as trying to be a solicitor etc...

A degree does not mean you have the capability to become a professional in another discipline.
Besides, where's the IT jobs???

Mr. CooL ICE

luckat wrote: »

Good idea, Titian Gal, but as you see from the answers, people are still reeling from shock, and are reverting to base smart-alec answers out of instinct.

Wrong. People are 'reverting' to smart-alec answers because she clearly didn't think this through. Plus, this is AH

Titian Gal wrote:

These people are gifted in their fields. They may have computer talents also

If you have worked in IT, you would know that just because someone is on a 6-figure salary, it doesn't mean they have a single brain cell. Honestly, how some of these people remember to breath is beyond me

Annatar

LordChessington wrote: »

If you have worked in IT, you would know that just because someone is on a 6-figure salary, it doesn't mean they have a single brain cell. Honestly, how some of these people remember to breath is beyond me

Aint that the scary truth!!

thee glitz

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Imagine if everyone on the dole had to do just 3 hours of community service each week, cleaning up the local area, run a sports club for the locals etc.

Getting unemployed people to donate a few hours to their local community
would be a very good idea. There would be the problem of not being perfectly
able to match people's skills with suitable projects so some people wouldn't be
involved (much) and the rest would become resentful...

Xiney

As an outsider, I don't think Irish qualifications are quite as good as people seem to be making them out to be.

I'd wager the vast majority of graduates from IT programs in Ireland would fail first year computer science exams at the University I attended. (full disclosure: I didn't attend it for IT - but most of my friends did)


I say, improve the quality of education here, and while you may not keep people much more easily, at least the ones who remain will be better able to get the country out of its messes.

Unpossible

Xiney wrote: »

As an outsider, I don't think Irish qualifications are quite as good as people seem to be making them out to be.

I'd wager the vast majority of graduates from IT programs in Ireland would fail first year computer science exams at the University I attended. (full disclosure: I didn't attend it for IT - but most of my friends did)


I say, improve the quality of education here, and while you may not keep people much more easily, at least the ones who remain will be better able to get the country out of its messes.

To be fair a lot of that depends on the institute. When I was there I.T.Tralee's Software Development course was very tough, we were learning C# and Java while other universities were still teaching C++. We were also using rational XDE as soon as it was released. It was also a lot harder than the computer/programming sections of the degree I did in Finland.
Of course I have heard of some terrible students passing in other I.T.'s which I won't name so as i said it all depends on the institute.

newestUser

Absolutely bonkers suggestion.

A perception I've encountered since I was 18 was that 'IT' (as vague and generic a term as 'business') is trivial. The auld lad hears that I'm studying something called 'Computer Architecture' as part of my degree? 'Pfft. Load of sh!te. I'd tell ye everythin' ye need te know about that in 5 minutes'. Cheers Dad. Fill me in on CISC, RISC, Boolean Algebra, assembly language, the binary counting system and all that stuff that I never knew you had a deep understanding of. Architects and System Architects are kin? WTF? Do they teach Design Patterns, UML, Object Oriented Programming etc. in between all that building design stuff in architecture courses now? Back in the day, some snotty bint starts calling me a tool of the capitalist oppressors because she can't accept that her opinion on how to manage multi-million projects designing software for managing stock trades for banks is meaningless given her utter and complete lack of education or experience in the field, and that some aspects of the job, which she considers exploitation are unavoidable pitfalls in the business, and legislating for them would destroy the livelihoods of people working in the area, instead of protecting them? People lecturing me on how projects that build software that maps the human genome or runs a particle accelerator should be run, because they've read a Dilbert book, which means they've got the inside skinny on 'de industry' and their opinion now means something?

<breathe in, breathe out...>

The presumption that anyone can walk into an 'IT' role with no training or experience is insulting to people who work in any of the many roles that come under the heading 'IT'.

godtabh

CreepingDeath wrote: »

A

Imagine if everyone on the dole had to do just 3 hours of community service each week, cleaning up the local area, run a sports club for the locals etc.

You should only get the dole if your giving back something to the community. Nothing in life is free and the dole shouldnt be either.

thelordofcheese

kearnsr wrote: »

You should only get the dole if your giving back something to the community. Nothing in life is free and the dole shouldnt be either.

yeah, though , you know what would be even better?

If, while your working you paid money to the government so that if your ever out of work that money would exist to help you until you're back on your feet.
Like a kind of insurance against life kicking you in the balls, y'know.

It needs an acrynom of some sort though, i'm thinking pay... pay related..... pay related something, something... insurace?

Never mind, i'm sure we can name it later.....

thelordofcheese

Unpossible wrote: »

When I was there I.T.Tralee's Software Development course was very tough, we were learning C# and Java while other universities were still teaching C++.

hehehe.
That made me giggle, cheers for that.

Nolanger

Might be learning C++ but here's what they're not teaching in colleges around the country - how students can set up their own small IT firms.
Why do all graduates want to find a job? Where's the start-ups specialising in new technologies. Where's the Irish Twitter? Where's the innovative small Irish IT firm that is doing something new? Where the college project that has been developed into a commercial product that will make the graduates a fortune?

Unpossible

thelordofcheese wrote: »

hehehe.
That made me giggle, cheers for that.

Actually I was a bit jumbled up there. I was pointing out that we were learning newer languages, of course knowing one OO languge means learning another is easy, but how many HR people know that. They will be the ones looking through the CV's looking for the person with Java or .NET.
As for the difficulty of the course, myself and some friends from UCC and UL compared what we were doing in third year, their stuff sounded easier and they claimed the Tralee course looked harder.

Unpossible

Nolanger wrote: »

Might be learning C++ but here's what they're not teaching in colleges around the country - how students can set up their own small IT firms.
Why do all graduates want to find a job? Where's the start-ups specialising in new technologies. Where's the Irish Twitter? Where's the innovative small Irish IT firm that is doing something new? Where the college project that has been developed into a commercial product that will make the graduates a fortune?

Yes we need more start-ups if we really do want to become a "knowledge economy"

cornbb

Humph. Lame idea, there are few enough IT jobs around even for those of us who know what they're doing.

I agree that we need more entrepreneurship and startups but even then only a small proportion of them are going to succeed. An "Irish twitter" isn't going to be terribly good to anyone when the real Twitter haven't figured out how to turn a profit yet. The IDA, Enterprise Ireland and a few other state bodies do stellar work in this area though, EI keep a few guys in an office in San Jose (Silicon Valley) who are probably worth their weight in gold.

As for Java/C# vs C++ - if you are being taught C# its like being taught how to follow a recipe, if you learn C++ its like learning how to cook. .NET languages are certainly more popular now but learning something like C++ will give you a far better grounding in the principles of development. Once you've got that nailed down, picking up Java/.NET or whatever is a breeze.

thelordofcheese

Unpossible wrote: »

As for the difficulty of the course, myself and some friends from UCC and UL compared what we were doing in third year, their stuff sounded easier and they claimed the Tralee course looked harder.

from what i remember 3rd years Comp Sys in UL was hell, mainly because of a switch to pure theory modules (Three modules of networking with no actual setting up of a network you say? Fantastic) and COBOL.
fuck you guys and your 'hard' course, i had to work with shitting COBOL.

Sometimes, late at night, i can still hear the screaming......


*rocks back and forth*

nylon

what are the odds that the OP is a recent architecture graduate?

cornbb

thelordofcheese wrote: »

(Three modules of networking with no actual setting up of a network you say? Fantastic)

It always strikes me as amazing how they could teach us stuff like Z schemas'n'junk yet it failed to occur to them to show us how to use a debugger....

dresden8

As an aside, I have worked alongside those who have degrees and those who haven't.

Those without degrees and those with have been excellent. And vice versa.

A degree is proof of nothing.

Having said that you can't go far wrong with someone in "proper" sciencey type degrees, that require real work.

Brainy b@st@rds!

JDLK

It doesnt really make much sence as the IT industry isnt insular/self suffiecient.

Most IT software/hardware is designed to support other industries including the professional services industry (accountants/lawyers etc)....

so in essence you would just be turning your customer base into your workforce

Dyr

Theres enough piranhas in the IT pool already :mad:

I'm get onto the computer guild, we wont be having no outsiders in our trade I tells ya

Unpossible

In regards to small and medium companies setting up here, do we have anything in Ireland like these?
http://www.technopolis.fi/index.php?id=21&lang_id=1
I worked in the Kuopio and Espoo ones, usually they have connections with the local colleges as well.

maninasia

Nolanger wrote: »

Might be learning C++ but here's what they're not teaching in colleges around the country - how students can set up their own small IT firms.
Why do all graduates want to find a job? Where's the start-ups specialising in new technologies. Where's the Irish Twitter? Where's the innovative small Irish IT firm that is doing something new? Where the college project that has been developed into a commercial product that will make the graduates a fortune?

Yes, it's all about the what de gubernment can do to get us jobs, set up an action plan, build a big arse office and factory and give them a cheap deal, oh wait we've been doing that for the last 40 years. Very few have any get up and go.

maninasia

cornbb wrote: »

Humph. Lame idea, there are few enough IT jobs around even for those of us who know what they're doing.

I agree that we need more entrepreneurship and startups but even then only a small proportion of them are going to succeed. An "Irish twitter" isn't going to be terribly good to anyone when the real Twitter haven't figured out how to turn a profit yet. The IDA, Enterprise Ireland and a few other state bodies do stellar work in this area though, EI keep a few guys in an office in San Jose (Silicon Valley) who are probably worth their weight in gold.

As for Java/C# vs C++ - if you are being taught C# its like being taught how to follow a recipe, if you learn C++ its like learning how to cook. .NET languages are certainly more popular now but learning something like C++ will give you a far better grounding in the principles of development. Once you've got that nailed down, picking up Java/.NET or whatever is a breeze.

I'm not sure of your point here, surely every company doesn't make a profit at the start, that's why it's called 'start-up'! It's all to do with going out there and taking a risk, the biggest risk is wasting your brains and talent and doing nothing. Enterprise Ireland and IDA are not going to make your company and career for you. The problem in Ireland is because there were so many high paid govt. jobs and contracting jobs there was no incentive to go out on your own for the last 10 years, combined with ludicrously high property prices, made everybody risk averse, setting up a company would be thought as a fools game, unfortunately the paradox of this creates the situation that the whole things crashes in the end.....