Do new bands worry about their sound engineer?

Brien

Im one of the million Irish sound engineers looking for work at the minute, but i also am in a band. these two nuggets of info joined together in my head to come upon The Question:

Do bands worry about how they sound?
do you as a musician think that all house engineers are amazing, or are you worried about the cost of having a dedicated engineer for the early stages of your musical wanderings?

have you ever considered it? if yes, did you choose to hire someone.
My bands engineer works on the basis that his expenses are covered, and after that he gets an equal split from the door. seems fair to me, and i know plenty of guys (myself included) who would work for the same. It just means that your engineer knows every song perfectly.

Savman

I'd say it's the cost that prevents most bands doing it tbh. Pity cos there's plenty of bands and plenty of engineers out there.

Brien

Bump, anyone???

tubedude

Yeah with the band I was in last year, we thought we could just do the sound ourselves. I mean it seemed as if we were getting away with it, setting levels ourselves etc, but after we got a sound engineer in for a couple of gigs, we never did another gig without one.
Seriously, to any bands out there.....GET A SOUND ENGINEER! Stop playing terrible gigs, with s**t sound, that you don't even realise how crap you sound, because you are in your own world on stage and don't have a clue how anything actually sounds.

Also make sure you get an ACTUAL sound engineer, not just your mate who says they will do it no prob who doesnt have a clue.
Also make sure you get a GOOD sound engineer. There's different ones ya know, it's not like you can do it or you can't. A good sign of a good one is that they are actually DOING SOMETHING, like moving around the pub/venue listening from different angles, like constantly going back and forth from the desk(depending on where it is) to where the crowd are.
If you use the same guy usually (which you should), they will know all your songs, what line to put a bit of delay/reverb/distortion on, fader rides, generally just knowing what the f**k is going on.
Don't bother with someone who just sets levels at sound check and then goes and has a point and watches the show.
Also, most house engineers are S***E! And don't know anything about your sound, or care. At least that's the way you should look at it.
Even if someone in your band is a sound engineer, and is good, he still won't be able to do as good a job as a dedicated man. If you are serious about being considered a good band you should want to sound amazing....
So yeah rant over.......
PS: STOP BEING ****!

FOGOFUNK

Yeah defo, I think sound engineers vary greatly from man too man, alot of them dont know the first thing about drum sounds, just turning up the low on everything. But you get some good ones too.

DerKaiser

It is the ideal scenario that if you are starting to make the kind of money that would allow you to have a full time sound and lights guy, but, I remember a friend of mine (old school engineer, now a lecturer) saying engineers that spend too much time with bands get too used to their music and can actually miss things in the sound, ie, vocals not being high enough because the engineer can hear what he/she expects in their head and not notice the actual sound being absent

But overall, I'd say a good idea

tubedude

DerKaiser wrote: »

It is the ideal scenario that if you are starting to make the kind of money that would allow you to have a full time sound and lights guy, but, I remember a friend of mine (old school engineer, now a lecturer) saying engineers that spend too much time with bands get too used to their music and can actually miss things in the sound, ie, vocals not being high enough because the engineer can hear what he/she expects in their head and not notice the actual sound being absent

But overall, I'd say a good idea

Yeah if that's happening then I think it's probably time to bring in a new guy! But about the money, I think there are quite a few good students/people who are new to the game who can prove to be good value and be within the reach of upcoming bands who might not be able to afford more experienced engineers.
But you mentioned something else there that slipped my mind that most bands would'nt even think about; a lights guy. I mean most bands will have some kind of basic form of lighting on stage, but not many I have seen use them in any way creatively. A lot of people disregard the performance element of gigs. You can use lights and even props to really bring a stage to life.

DerKaiser

tubedude wrote: »

Yeah if that's happening then I think it's probably time to bring in a new guy! But about the money, I think there are quite a few good students/people who are new to the game who can prove to be good value and be within the reach of upcoming bands who might not be able to afford more experienced engineers.
But you mentioned something else there that slipped my mind that most bands would'nt even think about; a lights guy. I mean most bands will have some kind of basic form of lighting on stage, but not many I have seen use them in any way creatively. A lot of people disregard the performance element of gigs. You can use lights and even props to really bring a stage to life.

Agreed, and it can be so cheap to do, a single light bulb used to great effect can create a magic stage show

raidenft

not sure about the permanent engineer, never tried it. are venues usually ok with the engineer using their equipment etc ? how does the insurance work ? ?

the lighting engineer is a great idea, know someone who has done this alot in the past very succesfully. he designs visuals that are put on projectors and a lighting show for the gigs, there is a huge difference in a lighting engineer that knows your songs and set, strobes for heavy bits chill out lighting for light bits. really adds to the gig. if anyone needs to get in contact with them for this let me know. they'd happily let ya know pricing etc.

Brien

raidenft wrote: »

not sure about the permanent engineer, never tried it. are venues usually ok with the engineer using their equipment etc ? how does the insurance work ? ?

the lighting engineer is a great idea, know someone who has done this alot in the past very succesfully. he designs visuals that are put on projectors and a lighting show for the gigs, there is a huge difference in a lighting engineer that knows your songs and set, strobes for heavy bits chill out lighting for light bits. really adds to the gig. if anyone needs to get in contact with them for this let me know. they'd happily let ya know pricing etc.

yeah, most house engineers like the chance to sit back and do nothing, the only downside is if your engineer is really awfull the house guy will turn down the amps to save a mistake from blowing a speaker.

studiorat

IMO you can't make a bad band sound good! No engineer can. Aside from having your own engineer which isn't necessary starting out IMO. Bands could really do a lot to help them selves. Setting their own gear up so it sounds good and not too loud, the biggest problem an engineer faces in a small venue is the amps are usually set at stupid levels and you spend your time fighting to keep the vocals up in foh and on stage and fighting feedback, rather than any sort of musical mixing. If the band sounds good on the stage with the PA off it's just then a matter of filling in the gaps.

On a similar note I get guitarists saying, "well the drums are loud", and turning their amps to "match" that. That may be so but that's only a snare hit every few seconds not a bleedin' wall of sound for the next 45minutes!!!

Brien

studiorat wrote: »

IMO you can't make a bad band sound good!

true but i'v seen many good bands made sound bad. the house engineers have to make sure bands know that if they play too loud that there will be problems with FOH

Savman

I was in X Music recently and was amazed at the number of guitar players trying out amps at ridiculously loud volumes. I felt like tapping some of them on the shoulder and saying "you're never gonna get to play it that loud mate" :rolleyes:

The long and short of it is, dopey guitarists with stupid loud amps will rob most PA systems of available headroom. Ordinarily the job of an engineer, be he a house guy or otherwise, is to do the best he can with what he has.

"Can you gimme more vocal in the wedge man"
"No, how about you turn down your 8x12" Marshall stack"

studiorat

I'll easily spend as much time on the stage as I do behind the console setting up a band for a gig, tweeking amps mic positions etc. Especially at a small gig. Most, if not all musicians have no problem and seem quite pleased with this carry on, walking around the stage while they are playing, also helps me suss out how the monitor mix is going.

tubedude

studiorat wrote: »

On a similar note I get guitarists saying, "well the drums are loud", and turning their amps to "match" that. That may be so but that's only a snare hit every few seconds not a bleedin' wall of sound for the next 45minutes!!!

(Sigh)..guitarists, if there is any guitarists viewing this thread, can I just ask you guys.. why you are so ANNOYING!! And please...get rid of those 100 watt valve amps that you insist on maxing out so you can get your beloved 'tone'.

Brien

damn straight. ac30 = 30 watts of lovelyness, especially at quieter volumes. Vox ac15 is the same. this is why i'v been thinkin that bands need an engineer they BELIEVE that can tell them that they will sound better with their guitar amps turned down!!

joeygl

i agree all round here gentlemen....
many venues like to also Put "GAFFA TAPE" on every finely tuned drum kits...
Rather than mike a certain kick or bass drum and turn it down to get a natural bass response... i did hear a band in the Voodoo lounge one night and their engineer made a real difference with little adjustments..
Turn the Stack down is right.... jeeeeeze....:P