No Velodrome Says Cullen

rottenhat

Little piece in the Irish Times - the Minister for Sport admitted in the Dail yesterday that there were no funds for a velodrome planned to be built by 2012.

Anyone know more about what the plans had been?

Pjordanoz

http://www.trackcycling.ie

has details. Best way to push for olympic glory, have no facilities.

TinyExplosions

Link to article

-From reading that, it would seem like there were no concrete plans other than "it may be nice to have a velodrome", and all he's saying is that it can't be done... wouldn't mind seeing Chris Hoy on the Sundrive track though

Chips Lovell

If we want Olympic success on the track, then a proper indoor velodrome is needed. Essentially we're trying to mimic the British approach without the facilities. There is no way in hell one will be built with public money in the next few years. We simply don't have it.

quietobserver

rottenhat wrote: »

Little piece in the Irish Times - the Minister for Sport admitted in the Dail yesterday that there were no funds for a velodrome planned to be built by 2012.

Anyone know more about what the plans had been?

Cullen is a waste of space. 68000 in expenses for him to travel to the olympics and then they tell us theres no results from the games. If money was spent on the athletes and cullen could give them a congradulations phone call on skype (it would be free) when they achieve the goals intended.
This country is a joke.

Caroline_ie

... well .. we could tax every boards post 1cent towards the velodrome? :pac:

Raam

I thought I read last year that one is to be built in Belfast. That may have just been a dream though.

TinyExplosions

Raam wrote: »

I thought I read last year that one is to be built in Belfast. That may have just been a dream though.

Not a dream, but who knows if it'll happen

more, and more

Junior

quietobserver wrote: »

Cullen is a waste of space. 68000 in expenses for him to travel to the olympics and then they tell us theres no results from the games. If money was spent on the athletes and cullen could give them a congradulations phone call on skype (it would be free) when they achieve the goals intended.
This country is a joke.

I've had it up to the back teeth with people complaining about this country, people voted these moron's in, we get what we deserve, no one will admit to voting them in now, why don't people shut up complaining about this country and it being it either
(a) A Hole
(b) A Joke
(c) A Dump

And do something about it... it's p*ss easy to moan about it on the internet..

sorry rant over..

TinyExplosions

Junior wrote: »

I've had it up to the back teeth with people complaining about this country, people voted these moron's in, we get what we deserve, no one will admit to voting them in now, why don't people shut up complaining about this country and it being it either
(a) A Hole
(b) A Joke
(c) A Dump

And do something about it... it's p*ss easy to moan about it on the internet..

sorry rant over..

I didn't vote those morons in, in fact, I didn't vote for any moron as the simple fact is that it doesn't matter who gets voted in, they all end up doing the same things (it's just under a different party name)

Complaining is part of our right as a citizen, and to a lesser extent as Irish people!

Only way to do something about it would involve lining the politicians up against the wall, and getting them to pay for the bullet that ends them, and that's not exactly practical in this day and age...

happygoose

Very constructive Tiny. Great approach, things will really change with that attitude.

TinyExplosions

happygoose wrote: »

Very constructive Tiny. Great approach, things will really change with that attitude.

And how else do you propose making an effective change? I'm not saying it's the best way forward, just that we need something very radical in order to improve anything. At the end of the day we have useless bastards running the country with an 'opposition' that would do the exact same thing if they were in power, whose sole purpose is to continue lining their pockets with other peoples money, and resist any attempts to change things for the better.

If it was up to me, I would make voting compulsory for everyone over the age of 16, but I would also include a "re-open nominations" spot on all ballots, so citizens can choose a 'none of the above' over the shower of ****ehawks and snake oil sellers we have at the moment.

flickerx

TinyExplosions wrote: »

And how else do you propose making an effective change? I'm not saying it's the best way forward, just that we need something very radical in order to improve anything. At the end of the day we have useless bastards running the country with an 'opposition' that would do the exact same thing if they were in power, whose sole purpose is to continue lining their pockets with other peoples money, and resist any attempts to change things for the better.

True dat. People abroad I talk to about Ireland dont understand how a large right wing gombeen party of business is in power, yet the biggest party in opposition is also a large right wing gombeen party of business.

I really hope Labour dont prop up FG next time, and let FG & FF form a government, because ideologically they're the exact same, no difference in their policies or ethos (in that they dont really have any). But Labour always caves in to get into Government, in that way they're simple careerists too and almost as bad as FF and FG, and the country stagnates, failing to develop any meaningful political culture or debate based on competing ideological standpoints.

SomeFool

Is this after hours or the cycling forum.......:D

happygoose

Sorry Tiny, just pissed off, the way things are. Everything you've said is correct, I agree, there's no credible alternative. Labour in theory but sure they don't have the brains. Right this is off topic sorry for startin a row!:P

petethedrummer

flickerx wrote: »

The country stagnates, failing to develop any meaningful political culture or debate based on competing ideological standpoints.

Part of the reason for this is that most Irish voters don't have an ideological standpoint. Forget about people who post on internet forums or your mates. Joe Soap on the street (or in the field) wants to pay less tax and own a bigger/house car. It's as simple as that and they will vote for the party that promises this. They couldn't give a flying frig about cycle lanes, green issues, gay rights, public transport, velo-dromes, art galleries etc....

I'll give you two quotes from people I used to work with.

'Peter, why do you cycle to work? Do you not earn good money to drive?' I lived less than a mile from work.

'Sure the green party don't want us to have nice cars, they want us all living in caves.'

This is kind of thing is the mindset of the voters of Ireland. So until this changes there'll be no velodrome or decent cycle lanes.

Gavin

The problem with the system seems to be that it attracts people who want power as much as it attracts people who genuinely want to help. And of course, those people who genuinely want to help do tend to get corrupted by the power, at least to the stage where they don't want to give it up.

TinyExplosions

happygoose wrote: »

Sorry Tiny, just pissed off, the way things are. Everything you've said is correct, I agree, there's no credible alternative. Labour in theory but sure they don't have the brains. Right this is off topic sorry for startin a row!:P

You didn't start a row mate, it's all good... I know my views are slightly on the extreme side, but no offence was taken -tis the internets after all, I'm just another one of the cranks

Gavin wrote: »

The problem with the system seems to be that it attracts people who want power as much as it attracts people who genuinely want to help. And of course, those people who genuinely want to help do tend to get corrupted by the power, at least to the stage where they don't want to give it up.

Unfortunately, that's 'democracy' as we have it for ya. The rich get richer while the poor get poorer, and it's all about power and money, not helping those that need it the most

Junior

Sorry for dragging this way off topic dudes, but I just have it up to the back teeth with this negative attitude that seems to pervade everyone.

Húrin

Might as well vote for the opposition, if only to punish FF. I think the real pressure must come from the public. More marches, says I.

Though on-topic, I don't think that building a velodrome, or any sports facility for professional athletes, would be a good use of public money.

flickerx

Húrin wrote: »

Though on-topic, I don't think that building a velodrome, or any sports facility for professional athletes, would be a good use of public money.

Whats your logic there, may I ask? Public money shouldnt be used for the benefit of the public? Should it go to bailouts for banks and corporations instead? As a tax paying cyclist I would like to see my taxes paying for a velodrome.

Diarmuid

flickerx wrote: »

Whats your logic there, may I ask? Public money shouldnt be used for the benefit of the public? Should it go to bailouts for banks and corporations instead?

The reason the banks are being recapitalised in the US (and Ireland) is that the last time around ('29) the government took the hands off approach. That didn't work. It's important to note that the owners of the banks are being wiped out (as they should)

The simple fact is that Ireland's last few years off boom were imaginary, it was all based on debt supplied by German savers. We bought and sold houses to each other at increasingly crazy prices with someone elses money. The music has stopped now and shock,horror we are in trouble.

You can forget about seeing a velodrome in Ireland for 10 years. Money will be very scarce and a velodrome will be close to the bottom of the list. Maybe if you can get 100k people marching to build one, you might have some hope.

Lumen

Presumably the velodrome idea comes from the UK, which has had much success after building a load of such infrastructure.

However, that started (as I recall) after they had some success in track cycling (Graeme Obree etc) and decided to invest some more in it - chase the stuff you're good at.

Which would suggest that Ireland should pick something culturally popular and fund that.

I suggest "speed walking". Beyond the Pale, the lanes are full of women of a certain age hobbling along, swinging the arms. A bit of investment should see us right for some medals.

Raam

We have three good professionals riding big tours right now, Roche, Deignan, Martin. Some of the An Post boys rode KBK at the weekend also. I hope it's the beginning of some success

WicklowRacer

flickerx wrote: »

Whats your logic there, may I ask? Public money shouldnt be used for the benefit of the public? Should it go to bailouts for banks and corporations instead? As a tax paying cyclist I would like to see my taxes paying for a velodrome.

True... but I'd prefer to pay for a functioning A&E so they can patch me up better and quicker. I think a velodrome is a luxury tbh. If you want to ride track that bad, Ryanair it to Manchester every weekend.

Lumen

Raam wrote: »

We have three good professionals riding big tours right now, Roche, Deignan, Martin. Some of the An Post boys rode KBK at the weekend also. I hope it's the beginning of some success

Sorry, didn't mean to denigrate that. How transferrable is that to the track?

Raam

Lumen wrote: »

Sorry, didn't mean to denigrate that. How transferrable is that to the track?

No idea. Personally I prefer the road and would happily see the focus/money go that way.

O'Loughlin is having some success on the track.

Esroh

Raam wrote: »

O'Loughlin is having some success on the track.

Before someone does the usual Irish begrudgery bit and knocks his results.
He has only been a track cyclist for 3 years and is hitting 30.The work O'L is putting in now is gaining the Country ranking points for the future. This will allow CI to sent extra riders to World Cup events etc in the next few years. Which will hopefully help discover a new Talent

blorg

There are ten track events (7 men, 3 women) in the Olympics against four road events (2 men, 2 women.) Britain invested in track for the medals, and very successfully too. It's arguably easier to develop track talent than road too, more individual focus and contained.

Raam

Esroh wrote: »

Before someone does the usual Irish begrudgery bit and knocks his results.

Why would anyone begrudge him?

Esroh

Raam wrote: »

Why would anyone begrudge him?

Sorry I know most people would not but he was knocked for the Olympics in another post a few weeks back and I saw how hard he worked last year first hand as he lives only a few miles away.

Raam

Esroh wrote: »

Sorry I know most people would not but he was knocked for the Olympics in another post a few weeks back and I saw how hard he worked last year first hand as he lives only a few miles away.

I remember seeing him at the last stage in TOI in Dublin 2007. He was going for the stage win. All the crowd at the finish were really cheering him on. He was in the break with 2 other guys on the final circuits and trying really hard. The LPR guy ended up getting the stage. You could see the dissappointment on O'Loughlin's face as he finished, getting third. He really wanted it and it would have been amazing to get the win. The crowd gave him a great reception and his efforts were very much appreciated.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/aug07/ireland07/?id=results/ireland075

RobFowl

Raam wrote: »

I thought I read last year that one is to be built in Belfast. That may have just been a dream though.

That one is still a runner. Final tenders in at the moment and waiting for funding (was approved but the powers that be have backed off a bit). still looks like it's going ahead.

Ps did anyone seriously believe that a state of the art velodrome was ever going to be built at Abbottstown ????

flickerx

WicklowRacer wrote: »

True... but I'd prefer to pay for a functioning A&E so they can patch me up better and quicker. I think a velodrome is a luxury tbh. If you want to ride track that bad, Ryanair it to Manchester every weekend.

I never fly Ryanair - never - because I dont support their greedy business models, and anti-union rhetoric. How anyone can support a company like that, with O'Leary at the helm, swanning around in his millions, is beyond me. Who cares about the "convenience".

There is always money for sports and other facilities, organisations like the FAI and GAA still get huge amounts of state grants despite having sponsorship deals and the like. There are other things as well that state money could be siphoned from - Minster's trips/junkets for example, and ringfenced into a velodrome fund.

If you put money into more sporting facilities, in the long run you'll need less money for hospitals, fitter people dont get sick as much. I want a decent A+E, but I also want decent things to enjoy for the vast majority of the time that I'm not needing hospital care. And for a velodrome, which is relatively cheap to construct, this cash could easily be found, if the political will was there. But it wont be, ever, with the likes of FF or FG in government (and its always one or the other).

Chips Lovell

How many votes from the GAA community and how many from cycling?

flickerx

el tonto wrote: »

How many votes from the GAA community and how many from cycling?

Ah yes, its all about the votes...

GAA people have probably voted the same way all their lives, I doubt a small chip from GAA grants towards a velodrome would be noticed, they have their corporate boxes in Croke Park, in addition to the extra income from the rugby to keep them afloat.

How many votes for a Minister who creates something positive and accessible? A good few I imagine.

Chips Lovell

flickerx wrote: »

Ah yes, its all about the votes...

Pesky majority rule.

Diarmuid

flickerx wrote: »

I never fly Ryanair - never - because I dont support their greedy business models, and anti-union rhetoric. How anyone can support a company like that, with O'Leary at the helm, swanning around in his millions, is beyond me. Who cares about the "convenience".

Actually I like flying with them. Cheap airfares, boarding is fast and I usually get a spot up the front and I have rarely (can't remember) been late. MOL might not be a likeable character to many but his job is to run Ryanair as a successful company for his shareholders. He does a better job of that than any other airline company CEO in Europe.

petethedrummer

Look, has nobody seen Cool Runnings? We can do it. We don't need a track. Sure isn't the country full of roundabouts?

But seriously. If track cycling was run like greyhound racing with a tote and a bar, it would gain alot of popularity. There's people in this country who would bet on two flies running up a window. I don't gamble myself but I have worked at a greyhound track and betting on people on bikes would be infinitely more entertaining than watching dogs run around.

What is a track meeting in Ireland like? I've never been to one.

TinyExplosions

petethedrummer wrote: »

What is a track meeting in Ireland like? I've never been to one.

Lots of fun... I'm not huge into racing myself (don't really have that competitive spirit), but the track league is just good craic -egos certainly seem to be left at the door, and it's just a group of people of all ages doing something they enjoy

flickerx

el tonto wrote: »

Pesky majority rule.

Minorities still pay taxes, their wishes should be taken into account by any Government.

Chips Lovell

flickerx wrote: »

Minorities still pay taxes, their wishes should be taken into account by any Government.

The new velodrome in London is going to cost £80 million (€89 million). The government gave Croke Park €110 million. Once cycling reaches the same popularity levels as GAA, I think then we can start moaning.

flickerx

el tonto wrote: »

The new velodrome in London is going to cost £80 million (€89 million). The government gave Croke Park €110 million. Once cycling reaches the same popularity levels as GAA, I think then we can start moaning.

Thats probably an Olympic quality one with spectator seats, TV camera boxes, and all that jazz. We could build one here for a lot cheaper, get some unemployed builders to do it, sure didnt they do it for half nothing in Eat The Peach.

Esroh

Wher's all the Lotto Money gone:pac:
if they can allow for 104 draws with 1 mill a given how much are they really making.
It was orig, for raising money for something exactly like a Velo. Now its just another Tax.
If they can move the track for the 6 days around Europe it must be possible to have an Arena which could have a running track and Cycle track that could work within the same. Even just to train on.There most be a few big buildings lying empty out there where the tracks would fit.:D

Raam

It would be awesome to have a 6 days here. I'm hoping to go to one next year.

lostexpectation

one for the whole island wouldn't be bad, maybe ireland could chip in for the one in belfast

Húrin

petethedrummer wrote: »

Look, has nobody seen Cool Runnings? We can do it. We don't need a track. Sure isn't the country full of roundabouts?

But seriously. If track cycling was run like greyhound racing with a tote and a bar, it would gain alot of popularity. There's people in this country who would bet on two flies running up a window. I don't gamble myself but I have worked at a greyhound track and betting on people on bikes would be infinitely more entertaining than watching dogs run around.
.

I work at a greyhound stadium part time and I think it's a good idea. Next time a stadium gets decommissioned it should be converted into a velodrome.