Blade Irons Vs Cavity Backs

expediateclimb

I know the difference between blades and cavities is that blades are harder to hit but provide a greater amount of feedback to your swing through the shaft whereas cavity back have a larger sweet spot and so are more forgiving but my question is this.

I'm just getting into golf (don't have a handicap yet but if I were to guess it would be in the twenties) and was wondering would it be better to invest in blades now rather then buy cavity backs. I know cavities would make it easier to play but they would hide discrepancies in my swing.

If I were to get a set of blades now, I know it would be harder to play with them but they would allow me to perfect my swing earlier and control the ball better with a bit of commitment and perseverance.

What do you guys think,

Buy the cavity backs and not have to worry to much about the correct swing until I trade up or get the blades and work on proper swing now?

thegen

Hi exp, if you are only starting out buy the cavity backs. Blades are in general not recommended for anyone but single h/c. There are a few exeptions. If you enjoy the game and are good enought to get h/c down then look at blades. Some single h/c players prefer to use cavity on the long irons while using traditional blades from 6 or 7 up. Best advice would be take a few lessons, try out different clubs, get pro's advice then purchase.

Hobart

I see where your coming from in terms of your thinking, but I (personally) would think that you would be making a huge mistake. There is a lot more to golf than the sweet spot on the iron. From my experience, you have to get following correct, before you even begin to look at improving your golf through the equipment:

Timing, positioning, grip, correct weight distribution, stance, balance, release and of course, the swing.

The last thing you should at the moment concentrate on is the size of the sweet spot on the club. A cavity back club distributes the weight around the perimeter of the head, producing a large "sweet spot". This means that any "off centre" shots will fly straighter and longer than those hit with a blade.

You're correct in saying that the larger spot, reduces feel, but in my experience, it will be many years of hard practice before you begin to understand what feel means.

You will also enjoy your game more, if you are getting some result by putting the club square on the ball, I guarantee you that you will not enjoy shanking, hooking and slicing 70% of your shots using a pro blade or muscle back.

Why don't you call up to a pro shop with a range, and ask them can you try both out, and see how you get on?

kermitpwee

If you will be in the mid twenties handicap then its cavity backs for you, indeed you will need oversize cavity backs. If you buy blades you will have given up the game by this time next year.

Options?
1. Oversized cavity Backs. Thats what I would recommend for you.
2. Smaller Cavity Back
3. Combo Set, this has blades in the short irons and cavities for the lower iron.

If you have your heart set on something flashy then go for the combo. If you want to lower your handicap quicker then get the over size cavity backs.
Regards
Peter

MisterAnarchy

I would steer well clear of bladed irons.
They are notoriously difficult to use .
The more forgiving a club the better it is ,as long as it has some bit of workability.

Myksyk

Local amateur here with a handicap of +2 gave up on pure blades; said they were hurting his game. just too much work. He's obviously still using bladey irons but not so unforgiving. You're thinking is understandable but I think that you will get enough wrong with the cavity backs to give you plenty of feedback on what to work on. When you feel proficient with these you could change.

kagni

Get some cavity backs, most tour players use them now rather than blades.
The game is difficult enough without deliberately making it harder for yourself.
You could always pick up a blade style iron to practise with.

MisterAnarchy

Myksyk wrote: »

Local amateur here with a handicap of +2 gave up on pure blades; said they were hurting his game. just too much work. He's obviously still using bladey irons but not so unforgiving. You're thinking is understandable but I think that you will get enough wrong with the cavity backs to give you plenty of feedback on what to work on. When you feel proficient with these you could change.

A friend of mine switched from Ping Eye's to Titleist Blades a few years ago.
He is a low handicapper and a very good ball striker.
It ruined his game ,he had no consistency with his irons they were going everywhere.
Nearly drove him mad.
He went back to the Pings and he was hitting them perfectly.;)

stockdam

Go get some 30 year old blades and some persimmon woods.

Also get some of the old 1.62" balls.

Come back after a year and tell me if they improved your game.

That's what I started of with and they did improve my ball striking.

However please ignore my comments above.....life is too short and the game is too hard.

Go with the cavity backs please.

expediateclimb

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

It ruined his game ,he had no consistency with his irons they were going everywhere.
Nearly drove him mad.
He went back to the Pings and he was hitting them perfectly.;)

Thanks for the input guys. That's the thing I'm worried about, that when eventually my handicap improves and I move onto blades, that the inconsistencies in my swing will show for all to see when I use them and make it harder to get down to scratch. I know that would be a number of years away and it's probably silly to be thinking of it now but cavity backs are a relatively new invention and before ping first created them everyone would have had to learn using old fashioned blades.

I'll probably go with the cavity backs though as I don't want to get to a situation where I'm not enjoying playing and since I'm just starting I guess I might aswell make it easier for me to play then harder.

Anyone any recommendation on clubs for someone like me and where I might pick up a reasonably good set?

Also where would be the best place to get some lessons and what should I work on initially? Would it be best to join a club and get a handicap straight away so I have something to improve towards or should I spend some time on the driving range to improve my swing before I even consider showing people how bad I am on the course

Thanks again for all the input

kermitpwee

expediateclimb wrote: »

Thanks for the input guys. That's the thing I'm worried about, that when eventually my handicap improves and I move onto blades, that the inconsistencies in my swing will show for all to see when I use them and make it harder to get down to scratch. I know that would be a number of years away and it's probably silly to be thinking of it now but cavity backs are a relatively new invention and before ping first created them everyone would have had to learn using old fashioned blades.

I'll probably go with the cavity backs though as I don't want to get to a situation where I'm not enjoying playing and since I'm just starting I guess I might aswell make it easier for me to play then harder.

Anyone any recommendation on clubs for someone like me and where I might pick up a reasonably good set?

Also where would be the best place to get some lessons and what should I work on initially? Would it be best to join a club and get a handicap straight away so I have something to improve towards or should I spend some time on the driving range to improve my swing before I even consider showing people how bad I am on the course

Thanks again for all the input

I was giving you options before but I think I need to make this clear. You have a better chance of winning the lotto then ever being able to play with blades.

To get to scratch is a lot harder than you think, many majors have been won with cavity backs. Cavity backs are round for a long time now. Buy huge cavity backs and get playing the game. As you improve you can decide what you want from your equipment.
Good luck, golf is a great game, when you start playing you will see that blades will be the last of your worries.

You want to be good? Then get lessons from the start, this will be vital in your quest to get to scratch otherwise forget it.

PhilipMarlowe

Yes, get lessons now and listen to the recommendations from your teaching pro. He will be better able to advise you on what clubs would suit.
You really should only consider "game improvement" irons at the moment. What you want is a club that has the best chance of getting the ball airborne and heading in vaguely the right direction and roughly the right distance from the swing you put on it. I'd expect you'd get on fine with a set like these for at least a couple of seasons. Then, when you have more of an idea of your swing, you might feel the need to change to more of a "player" type iron.
Cobra is a good brand to go with if you want decent quality clubs but most proper manufacturers will make a range of clubs to suit different levels.

If you want hardship, get blades and practice your ball striking on a beach!

f22

expediateclimb wrote: »

That's the thing I'm worried about, that when eventually my handicap improves and I move onto blades, that the inconsistencies in my swing will show for all to see when I use them and make it harder to get down to scratch.

You are obviously taking the piss. By a huge margin the average playing handicap of golfers is 18, worldwide.

A tiny percentage of amateur golfers play in category 1, and have a 5 handicap or lower. Blades are designed for very low handicap players and the majority of golfers would find them unplayable.

You have openly admitted that your handicap would be in the 20's and you are a beginner. Now unless I'm missing something here and unless you are a high achieving individual in other sports, the averages are against you in achieving the low end of single figures.

You have been given the advise and experience of many people on the forum, some of whom are low handicap golfers themselves, so take it.

It's game improvement your after so avail of whatever is out there to make the game easier for you.

expediateclimb

I know it's difficult to get into single figures as regards handicap so apologies if my previous post sounded a little blase, I did'nt mean any offense.

To be honest I am very competitive when it comes to any sports. I do like to set a goal or something to strive towards as I feel otherwise what would be the point. I know I may never get to scratch or even into low single digits but I would at least like to be able to get to a stage where I'm happy with the level I'm at and that's what I want to work towards.

Not the first time I've been told by people not to take it too seriously so thanks again for the advice and I'll let you know what clubs I end up getting (Cavity Back )

BUACHAILL

I like the idea and admire that you are already giving yourself targets, maybe be a little more realistic to begin !! Firstly forgetting any irons you decide to buy....are u in a club in order to obtain a handicap ?? Cavity irons are a must, I know its been said already but blades are not even a consideration right now. You will need to see exactly how good your game is to begin to know what to work on to improve, blades will be that inconsistant you will never achieve this.

When you know where your game is ( mid 20's etc ) then set a realistic target of say 18 then when achieved go to 14 etc etc... As you do this area's in your game will become obvious that needs work !!

Just my 2 cents worth
Best of luck and enjoy it

Sandwich

Vanity Irons Vs Reality Irons ?

Depends on whether you want to play your best golf, or to play worse but look like you play better (to yourself or others).

DIEGO WORST

As much as I would dissuade a beginner from using blades, I wouldn’t recommend using those huge cavity backs either, particularly for someone who has proved themselves half-decent at other sports.
Lessons and advice from a Pro is a great place to start. Also, demo as many different clubs as you can.

Mr. Larson

stockdam wrote: »

Go get some 30 year old blades and some persimmon woods.

Also get some of the old 1.62" balls.

Class

expediateclimb wrote: »

Thanks for the input guys. That's the thing I'm worried about, that when eventually my handicap improves and I move onto blades, that the inconsistencies in my swing will show for all to see when I use them and make it harder to get down to scratch.

expediateclimb wrote: »

I do like to set a goal or something to strive towards as I feel otherwise what would be the point. I know I may never get to scratch or even into low single digits but I would at least like to be able to get to a stage where I'm happy with the level I'm at and that's what I want to work towards.

It's obvious by your username that you're the type of person that likes to make quick progress from A to B but don't be in too much of a hurry with the ol scratch thing or you will just end up putting more pressure on yourself, which will impede your progress, at least mentally it will.

Also in my opinion, the whole ball striking/blade thing shouldn't be too closely associated with Handicap or single figure golfers. I've played with a lot of golfers ranging from 2 to 22 and it's chipping and putting that seperates the men from the boys. Granted, odds are that yer man off 3 is probably a better ball striker than yer man off 15 but [from what I have seen and on average] ball striking difference between your average punter off 13 and your average punter off 7 is negligible. The guy off 7 gets up and down more often than not where as the other lad, does not. Point is, you can aim to have Garcia-esque prowess with your ball striking and aim to master using blades but if you can't get the ball in the hole, chances are you're not going to get any lower than double digits... so priorities.... :rolleyes:

As Buachaill said goals are good and all that but he's right that you should shoot for something realistic. No one would ever tell you you can't get to single figures, hell, you could do it in a couple of years but to do that you better be good with the wedge and the putter. Also, fixating on an overall goal doesn't help in my book. You should break your overall goal or target down to several, multiple, small achieveable goals. Break it down bit by bit until it can't be broken down anymore and attack each one, bit by bit till you get there.

soundsham

if you read yesterdays golf section of the examiner trevor immelman explains how and why more and more pro's use cavity back clubs

this also explains why an amateur does not need the blades at all in hbis opinion and i would agree

glad to here your v. competitve as i think golf should serve you well then

also if you stick at it for a few years i have no doubt you'll reach single figures, don't froget a lot of shots can be dropped using the brains its not all skill

MisterAnarchy

Licksy wrote: »

I'd expect you'd get on fine with a set like these for at least a couple of seasons. Then, when you have more of an idea of your swing, you might feel the need to change to more of a "player" type iron.

I think that is a bit of a myth to be fair.
A good set of irons is a good set of irons ,whether it be for Joe hacker or a scratch golfer.
If the iron is forgiving,workable and consistent then its fine for the job.
Too much is made of these "player" type ,less forgiving clubs.
Lee Westwood only recently changed his iron ,he had been using the same Ping set for the last 14 years.He is one of the best iron players in the world .
If they are good enough for him then they are good enough for me.
By the way I'm reading a good book at the moment "The Search for the Perfect Golf Club",its a fascinating read.

soundsham

bang on, a good iron is a good iron

think lee was using the ping zing model pretty much since turning pro

Sandwich

Jabberwocky wrote: »

Also in my opinion, the whole ball striking/blade thing shouldn't be too closely associated with Handicap or single figure golfers. I've played with a lot of golfers ranging from 2 to 22 and it's chipping and putting that seperates the men from the boys.

Have probably no more authority to comment than yourself Jaberwocky, but my observation would have been the opposite. Long game almost completely determines handicap. Would guess that if I played a few rounds with any player, and he picked up his ball once he was inside 50 yards from the green, I could estimate his handicap pretty accurately without seeing him hit a short ball at all.

Blades are on the way out, and will be an archaic curiosity in 20 years time like the timber wood. Difference is less clearcup than the timber/metal wood situation where it was a no contest. But tradition, marketing, cache, and the less obvious difference are keeping the blade on life support at the mo. Only a matter of time though.

Swinging Sweetley in Heaven

Blade Iron
1768-2029
Will be sadly missed by son Cavity Back Iron, and extended family of Metal Driver, Fairway Wood, Hybrid and little Putter.
Predeceased by Longtime Companion Timber Wood in 1993.
Rest In Peace.

Par72

I play off 1 and I wouldn't touch a set of blades with yours. What's the point in making life difficult for yourself? I'm sure there is no better feeling that a dead solid perfect strike with a 3 iron blade, but the consistency and accuracy required to pull that off requires thousands of hours of practice - not to mention a large degree of natural talent.

Cavity backs ftw!

GreeBo

I think the OP is under the impression that he will eventually get too good for cavity backs.
This will *never* happen. Not because you will never get good enough, but because you will never out grow a good set of cavity backs.

The best advice, if you want to push yourself, is to get some good CB's rather than a set of huge oversize ones.
I used CB's for 10 years before I switched to a set of muscle backs. I prefer the look of these clubs that most CB's and so find them easier to hit.


If you make it too hard for yourself you will give the game up.

Mr. Larson

Sandwich wrote: »

Have probably no more authority to comment than yourself Jaberwocky, but my observation would have been the opposite. Long game almost completely determines handicap. Would guess that if I played a few rounds with any player, and he picked up his ball once he was inside 50 yards from the green, I could estimate his handicap pretty accurately without seeing him hit a short ball at all.

Sorry 2 - 22 is indeed a pretty wide range there, I'll give you that, but I went on to compare the ball striking difference between your average punter off 13 and your average punter off 7.

It's all pretty subjective anyway I guess, because I've only witnessed this range of player mostly on my own track which is relatively short. So i've seen plenty of lads who play off 5-10 whose long game is far from anything to write home about but they are well capable of playing to their handicaps on account of being fairly canny around the greens...

Wasn't there some quote or view knocking around before that if you took the average 12 handicap player and had a pro take his shots from inside 50 or 100 yards or something that they would be off scratch? I always wondered about that one but there must be something in it?

kermitpwee

Sandwich wrote: »

Have probably no more authority to comment than yourself Jaberwocky, but my observation would have been the opposite. Long game almost completely determines handicap. Would guess that if I played a few rounds with any player, and he picked up his ball once he was inside 50 yards from the green, I could estimate his handicap pretty accurately without seeing him hit a short ball at all.

This is where you are totally wrong. Handicap is all about the short game not as much about how you hit it. I have played with amateurs who can hit the ball as well as the pros on the tv but didn't have the short game. If we picked up at 50 yards then some of these amateurs would look better then the pros. Admittedly these amateurs were of plus figures but it applies to all amateurs imo.
Its like saying that you can tell how much kerry are gong to score in the munster final by looking at their backs and midfield. What happens if kerry have a forwardline like London!

Sandwich wrote: »

Blades are on the way out, and will be an archaic curiosity in 20 years time like the timber wood.

Blades are actually on the up at the moment. In the mid nineties they were close to been dead and there demise was predicted by everyone. Tiger saved the blade and there will still be blades in 20years time.

ShriekingSheet

kermitpwee wrote: »

...and there will still be blades in 20years time.

Yes, there will be blades in 20 years time.
And there will still be rock ballads in 20 years time too.
Because it's a safe assumption that in 2029, there'll still be fckin eejits buying both of them.

Myksyk

You mean this?

GreeBo

Sandwich wrote: »

Long game almost completely determines handicap. Would guess that if I played a few rounds with any player, and he picked up his ball once he was inside 50 yards from the green, I could estimate his handicap pretty accurately without seeing him hit a short ball at all.

I dont think its so clear cut.
I think your long game determines how low you can go.
If you cannot hit the ball 200 yrds then I dont believe you are going to get down to 5, even with the best shortgame in the world you will still be putting yourself under huge pressure for pars on every hole. You will however be able to get to around the 12 marks with ease.

Conversely, if you can hit the ball 300 yrds but have no short game then I think you could still comfortably get down to 12 or so as your length means you always have the chance to get a sneaky par/birdie.

I was often amazed (and annoyed!) to be playing with the old lads would couldnt hit the ball near me yet were off the same handicap. The difference was always shortgame. My shortgame has since improved but my long game is still far superior. If you saw me pick up from 50 yrds you would give me single figures easily, and youd be very wrong.

markie4

expediate climb,
If you want to try blades, you can have my old ram tour grinds. I've been told to clear out some of my clubs anyway:( Technology hasn't changed much in 30 years for blades, so might give you an idea. I got them a few years ago for the same reason you say, to improve my ball striking. They're good for practice, but a bit too demanding for me.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58958424&postcount=55

thegen

Not 100% on this one. I plat off 7 so sit somewhere in the middle.

My thoughts on this are that it is the overall package, both long and short game.

I know if I am hitting the ball well off the tee then it will all follow (well 90% of the time)

I also know that if my ball striking is not on then if my short game is I can scramble to my H/C.

Putting is a massive part of it too as the putter is the most used club in your bag. Practice your putting and you scores will come down.

On a lighter Note some famous quotes:

I have a tip that can take five strokes off anyone's golf game: it's called an eraser. ~Arnold Palmer


Golf is a game that is played on a five-inch course - the distance between your ears. ~Bobby Jones


I'm about five inches from being an outstanding golfer. That's the distance my left ear is from my right. ~Ben Crenshaw

Golf is like an 18-year-old girl with big boobs. You know it's wrong but you can't keep away from her. ~Val Doonican

Forget your opponents; always play against par. ~Sam Snead

What other people may find in poetry or art museums, I find in the flight of a good drive. ~Arnold Palmer


The reason the pro tells you to keep your head down is so you can't see him laughing. ~Phyllis Diller

L.O.F.T

I have to agree on the long game short game discussion. I can clear the tee box with ease but for me its the short game, 100 yards and in, and putting which is key to me getting better scores more often. Good luck with the club selection and take all the help a forgiving iron will give you.

kermitpwee

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

Yes, there will be blades in 20 years time.
And there will still be rock ballads in 20 years time too.
Because it's a safe assumption that in 2029, there'll still be fckin eejits buying both of them.

Very true

expediateclimb

Hi guys. Just an update, am looking at a set of second hand callaway big bertha's and from doing some digging online these look like they would suit my game (easier to play with) Any thoughts?

Markie, thanks for the offer on the blades but it sound's like cavity back's are the way forward for me at least for the nxt few years. Appreciate the offer though but maybe someone with a lot more experience might find a better use for them then I would at the moment

BUACHAILL

I am selling Mizuno Mx 23's and perfect for what your looking for

Take a look on adverts !!

Wobs

I have the 02 model big bertha's. I find them very good, they are easy to hit and get the ball up very easy. I would say you can't go wrong with a set of them. the newer models seem to have a few changes to them, the 5,4,3 iron are almost like a hybrid club.

Sandwich

By coincidence bought a book yesterday hot off the press, The Science of Golf. One chapter is on what part of the game makes a good player. Answer is that there is a straight line relationship between driving distance and handicap. It doesnt analyse pitching/chipping, but does look at putting - almost the same putting performance for 0 to 28 handicapers.

daithijjj

i dont get all the hatred for blades, if it works for you it works for you. I used cavity clubs to get to nine handicap, switched to blades and got down to 3 handicap. Tried going back to cavities for a change and found them too cumbersome, blades are perfect for me, give me more control of the ball and shaping of shots aswell as controlling distance and overall feel.

Just because you cant hit blades doesnt mean they are sh1te. I see lads changing putters every time they putt badly for a period, the putter didnt become sh1te either, it was the fella holding it who had the problem.