Fine Gael-honest politics?

Permabear

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El Stuntman

I don't know that claiming allowances you are legally entitled to is in the same league as taking bribes from property developers like certain FFers?

I agree that it is on the margins of ethical behaviour. Better off to abolish all these over-generous expenses for politicians imo.

dresden8

donegalfella wrote: »

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I think you're missing the big issue here.

Did they eat the dinner?

The_Minister

El Stuntman wrote: »

I don't know that claiming allowances you are legally entitled to is in the same league as taking bribes from property developers like certain FFers?

I agree that it is on the margins of ethical behaviour. Better off to abolish all these over-generous expenses for politicians imo.

How is it on the margins?


He claimed money for room with double bed.
She also claimed the same amount on the same room.

Thats not on the margins of anything - its basically stealing.

And just because some FF'ers are worse (and some FG'ers) doesn't excuse it.
This wasn't claiming a extra luxiorious room when the public is footing the bill (also wrong), this was IMO fraud.

eoinbn

It's not fraud, it's just milking a stupid system. If they wanted they could sleep in a cardboard box and pocket the €140/280.

Certainly it doesn't paint the honest picture that FG wants, but they did put a stop to it without massive media/public pressure unlike some other politicans!

Permabear

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dresden8

donegalfella wrote: »

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Unless the hotel charges per person of course.

The_Minister

dresden8 wrote: »

Unless the hotel charges per person of course.

That would be grand then of course.

eoinbn

donegalfella wrote: »

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They way I read it is that they don't have to claim anything, they just have to say they stayed in dublin and they get €140 per day irrespective of where, or at what cost, they stayed. Yes it's dishonest, but fraud implies illegal which I doubt this is.

is_that_so

The real problem here is the unvouched expenses system. The two in question were rightfully requesting their due expenses under that system but they should have realised sooner that what they were doing was not appropriate.
Methinks it was newspapers sniffing around rather than dedication to public service was what make them cop on.
I also suspect that there are a number of other "honest" politicians of many hues out there who have got into the habit of claiming because it's there and basically free money.

Permabear

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BroomBurner

Isn't Inda Kinny getting a pension and a wage?

RiverWilde

Where is the auditing of TD and other expenses? It seems that TD's and other civil servants can claim for whatever they can dream of and get away with it. Why bother taking a car, sure we can call in a helicopter?!

(Assuming the door doesn't fall off! Where were these 6 helicopters when our troops in Chad needed transport? etc etc.)

These luxuries should be abolished and a system introduced based entirely on need, with strict budgets per individual. If they go over their budget they get to pay the balance at the end of the tax year.

Riv

MG

Everything is relative - that is why FG can be considered the "honest", becasuse relatively speaking they are.

aodh_rua

BroomBurner wrote: »

Isn't Inda Kinny getting a pension and a wage?

Do you mean as a former teacher? He gave up that entitlement years ago.

As for Deputies McHugh and Enright, they voluntarily acknowledged that they should only claim one overnight expense last summer - i.e. well before the papers got a hold of it. Contrast that with the likes of Bev clinging to her independent deputy's allowance until the pressure became too much.

Permabear

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Sir Oxman

It certainly highlights the atrocious system of unvouched expenses.
I notice there is very little clamour for this feeding at the trough to be stopped dead in it's tracks by ANY politician of any hue.

Those two should immediately state they will repay what they took and Mr Kenny should make sure they do just that.

gearoidc

I notice there is very little clamour for this feeding at the trough to be stopped dead in it's tracks by ANY politician of any hue.

Spot on. There have been some exceptions, but they're well down the food-chain.

Who came up with the idea of "unvouched expenses" anyway? This system is little more than a licence to defraud the tax-payer, is it not? I have no problem with footing (reasonable) hotel bills.

But to be allowed away with not having to produce receipts!!!???

nesf

gearoidc wrote: »

Who came up with the idea of "unvouched expenses" anyway? This system is little more than a licence to defraud the tax-payer, is it not? I have no problem with footing (reasonable) hotel bills.

If I remember correctly it was McCreevey who introduced it and it was backed by every TD in FF, FG and Labour. SF and some of the independents opposed it (Joe Higgins was one iirc) but it's hard to judge how strongly opposed they were (i.e. it's easy to oppose a measure that you know is going to pass anyway, you get to look good to Joe Public and still claim all those expenses). Fair dues to them if they didn't claim full expenses (which is entirely possible in Joe Higgins' case).

aodh_rua wrote: »

Do you mean as a former teacher? He gave up that entitlement years ago.

I thought he still claimed the difference in wages between what he would be paid to teach and the sub that's replacing him at the moment? I could be wrong though.

Mr.Micro

Most of the TD's feed from the same trough when it comes down to basics, so a little thing like unvouched expenses in this day and age is too much of a temptation for the average TD to resist or protest about. It should be stopped now.

Sully

Im sure the other partys are just as guilty - it just hasnt been noticed yet.

The expense system and spending of money needs to be looked at but it went out of hand because the country had a fair bit of money for it be acceptable. Its only not acceptable during these times.

Honest politics? Compared to others, yes. Admiting errors or giving back (however small), yes.

Hillel

El Stuntman wrote: »

I don't know that claiming allowances you are legally entitled to is in the same league as taking bribes from property developers like certain FFers?

I agree that it is on the margins of ethical behaviour. Better off to abolish all these over-generous expenses for politicians imo.

At best, it's unethical. At the very least they should be suspended from the party whip. I sincerely hope their constituents remember this, next time around. Shame on them!

Hillel

Sully wrote: »

Im sure the other partys are just as guilty - it just hasnt been noticed yet.

The expense system and spending of money needs to be looked at but it went out of hand because the country had a fair bit of money for it be acceptable. Its only not acceptable during these times.

Honest politics? Compared to others, yes. Admiting errors or giving back (however small), yes.

Honest politics? Of course not, if they were employees of a private company they would have been disciplined, if not fired - and rightly so.

Its only not acceptable during these times. Really? I, for one think the TD gravy train is an insult to ordinary workers. Milking it even further, like they did, is simply giving all of us the two fingers.:mad:

Sir Oxman

Sully wrote: »

Im sure the other partys are just as guilty - it just hasnt been noticed yet.

The expense system and spending of money needs to be looked at but it went out of hand because the country had a fair bit of money for it be acceptable. Its only not acceptable during these times.

Honest politics? Compared to others, yes. Admiting errors or giving back (however small), yes.

Have to say that is very poor. Even for this forum.

Raiser

Oh for Gods sake :mad: - The sheer display of absolute stupidity is turning my stomach - and since when does the Thunderbird character get the 80's Vegas cocktail waitress?

- In my opinion this is reprehensible fraud.