Carefeul there Ted with the online gambling!

Darragh29

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0304/1224242235077.html

This would make you sick sick sick!!! Now I'm not a gambling man except for the odd game of poker in a mates house, but look at what these people are saying! If the bank see that you have transactions on your credit card or current account that relate to online gambling, they can and often will use this as an excuse to disqualify you if you make a mortgage application.

This from the people who have gambled away the entire economy and now who is paying for it??? The guy who is spending a few quid on partypoker.com every week!

milod

Well you can see their point - they've learned the hard way... :pac:

As for betting with your credit card, anyone actually stupid enough to do this should not be allowed the responsibility of home ownership.

Darragh29

milod wrote: »

Well you can see their point - they've learned the hard way... :pac:

As for betting with your credit card, anyone actually stupid enough to do this should not be allowed the responsibility of home ownership.

I agree, but it's a bit Irish for any Irish bank to be finger wagging on this topic at the moment!

Caoimhín

If you are dense enough to use your credit card to gamble on-line, then you cant be trusted with a mortgage.

Burning Eclipse

Caoimhín wrote: »

If you are dense enough to use your credit card to gamble on-line, then you cant be trusted with a mortgage.

:rolleyes:

I'd say the guys in the poker forum would love to read that.

connundrum

Caoimhín wrote: »

If you are dense enough to use your credit card to gamble on-line, then you cant be trusted with a mortgage.

Sticking a tenner into the CD drive doesn't seem to give the same results

Caoimhín

Burning Eclipse wrote: »

I'd say the guys in the poker forum would love to read that.

Well in all fairness, think about it, using high interest loans to gamble! It isnt really any different than going into the bank, borrowing a thousand euro then going into the bookies and betting on the 2.30 at Aintree.

Burning Eclipse

Caoimhín wrote: »

Well in all fairness, think about it, using high interest loans to gamble! It isnt really any different than going into the bank, borrowing a thousand euro then going into the bookies and betting on the 2.30 at Aintree.

I've used a credit card for the last 4 years without ever paying a cent of interest on it. Only charge is the govt one. So the interest thing is a moot point.

humanji

Caoimhín wrote: »

Well in all fairness, think about it, using high interest loans to gamble! It isnt really any different than going into the bank, borrowing a thousand euro then going into the bookies and betting on the 2.30 at Aintree.

It worked out well for Bertie.

Iago

Caoimhín wrote: »

Well in all fairness, think about it, using high interest loans to gamble! It isnt really any different than going into the bank, borrowing a thousand euro then going into the bookies and betting on the 2.30 at Aintree.

lol, you should really get those blinkers taken off.

If you're using your credit card properly you should never pay interest. I don't remember paying interest on my card at any point and I use it regularly every month.

handsomecake

some outrageous comments here. people should be careful what they say.

person "A" spends 50 euro on on-line gambling on credit card.
person "b" spends 50 euro on a dress on credit card.

both identical debts yet the gambler gets tarred with the "untrust worthy brush" why?

the gambler can turn his 50 into more!!
you get no return on a dress!!!

do you think every one who gambles is addicted??
i dont drink,or smoke but love a flutter on a saturday.maybe 20 euro on a horse or whatever..................so all of a sudden i dont deserve to get a mortgage.ridiculous.
if i have a steady income,good credit rating and am asking for a reasonable amount of money for a mortgage it is none of the banks business what my transactions are.........once im paying my credit card off.
if "john" has his credit card maxed out at 2 grand from buying playstation games and football jerseys and "barry" has 200 euro on his card from online gambling then barry is the dirty one.what about the clown who has his card maxed?

Gone Drinking

Couldn't give a flute, i'll never have a hope of getting a mortgage anyway..

humanji

handsomecake wrote: »

some outrageous comments here. people should be careful what they say.

person "A" spends 50 euro on on-line gambling on credit card.
person "b" spends 50 euro on a dress on credit card.

both identical debts yet the gambler gets tarred with the "untrust worthy brush" why?

the gambler can turn his 50 into more!!
you get no return on a dress!!!

do you think every one who gambles is addicted??
i dont drink,or smoke but love a flutter on a saturday.maybe 20 euro on a horse or whatever..................so all of a sudden i dont deserve to get a mortgage.ridiculous.
if i have a steady income,good credit rating and am asking for a reasonable amount of money for a mortgage it is none of the banks business what my transactions are.........once im paying my credit card off.
if "john" has his credit card maxed out at 2 grand from buying playstation games and football jerseys and "barry" has 200 euro on his card from online gambling then barry is the dirty one.what about the clown who has his card maxed?

The article is about people spending money every week on gambling. It makes sense if people are makign huge loses on a regular basis, then why the hell would you want to give them more money?

Sabre0001

humanji wrote: »

The article is about people spending money every week on gambling. It makes sense if people are makign huge loses on a regular basis, then why the hell would you want to give them more money?

Cos they will reach a point where they have lost so much that the only logical thing to do is keep gambling

handsomecake

humanji wrote: »

The article is about people spending money every week on gambling. It makes sense if people are makign huge loses on a regular basis, then why the hell would you want to give them more money?

i spend money every week on gambling.
how do bank of ireland know whether im winning or losing on my bets. its not as if they ring paddy power or betfair to find out if my account is in profit.

i regularly get cheques from paddy power for my winnings.
probably 4 or 5 cheques a month and i only deposit maybe 20 a week.all the bank see is your "deposits" into these accounts. not your winnings. and frankly its none of there business. once your current account/credit card are tickety boo they should keep their nose out of it

Darragh29

humanji wrote: »

The article is about people spending money every week on gambling. It makes sense if people are makign huge loses on a regular basis, then why the hell would you want to give them more money?

I spend money every week drinking, I've mates who spend money every week smoking, does that mean none of us should be allowed to get a mortgage!?!

Caoimhín

Iago wrote: »

lol, you should really get those blinkers taken off.

If you're using your credit card properly you should never pay interest. I don't remember paying interest on my card at any point and I use it regularly every month.

It is hardly silly of me to suggest that using borrowed money to gamble is not a great idea. If the bank sees someone is running up large gambling debts on a credit card then they cant be blamed for being hesitant in giving that person a mortgage.

Agent Smith

handsomecake wrote: »

some outrageous comments here. people should be careful what they say.

person "A" spends 50 euro on on-line gambling on credit card.
person "b" spends 50 euro on a dress on credit card.

both identical debts yet the gambler gets tarred with the "untrust worthy brush" why?

the gambler can turn his 50 into more!!
you get no return on a dress!!!

What if your a hooker?:pac:

Darragh29

Caoimhín wrote: »

It is hardly silly of me to suggest that using borrowed money to gamble is not a great idea. If the bank sees someone is running up large gambling debts on a credit card then they cant be blamed for being hesitant in giving that person a mortgage.

The article wasn't necessarily referring to, "large gambling debts on a credit card", I took it to be any evidence of regular online gambling activity. If I go out for a few pints with my mates every week, you'll see a 60-80 Euro withdrawal on my bank statement for that night. For a taxi there and back and say I have 4-5 pints, that's 20-25 Euro.

The spend is the same, if I smoked, you could probably throw another 50 Euro a week onto that. Does that mean I'm frowned upon for a mortgage???

handsomecake

Caoimhín wrote: »

It is hardly silly of me to suggest that using borrowed money to gamble is not a great idea. If the bank sees someone is running up large gambling debts on a credit card then they cant be blamed for being hesitant in giving that person a mortgage.

i dont think you understand. you deposit the money from your credit card/current account in to paddy power.com. THEY ONLY ALLOW YOU TO DEPOSIT MONEY YOU ACTUALLY HAVE.YOU ARE NOT PLACING BETS DIRECTLY WITH YOUR CARD ON THE WEBSITE.YOU AUTHORISE A DEPOSIT AND THEN IT TAKES ABOUT TEN SECONDS TO GET AUTHORISATION FROM YOUR BANK AND THE MONEY GOES IN YOUR BETTING ACCOUNT.its not as if people are runing up overdrafts etc on gambling.

my girlfriend put two pairs of expensive shoes on her visa card last year. she didnt need the shoes....SHE COULDNT AFFORD THE SHOES.how is this different?

handsomecake

Darragh29 wrote: »

The article wasn't necessarily referring to, "large gambling debts on a credit card", I took it to be any evidence of regular online gambling activity. If I go out for a few pints with my mates every week, you'll see a 60-80 Euro withdrawal on my bank statement for that night. For a taxi there and back and say I have 4-5 pints, that's 20-25 Euro.

The spend is the same, if I smoked, you could probably throw another 50 Euro a week onto that. Does that mean I'm frowned upon for a mortgage???

thank you darragh. exactly my point. it doesnt matter if your buying child porn with your credit card. once your paying your bill like every one else it is irrellevent what you spend your OWN money on.

Darragh29

handsomecake wrote: »

thank you darragh. exactly my point. it doesnt matter if your buying child porn with your credit card. once your paying your bill like every one else it is irrellevent what you spend your OWN money on.

And of all people who be telling you how to run your financial affairs at the moment, an Irish bank!!! The laughing stock of the whole world!

Morrisseeee

Another slightly relevant point to the whole debate, our company has blocked ALL betting sites, but you can buy (& sell) almost anything else from other sites, so... is it unfair on the 'punter' to be at this dis-advantage, & is it unfair to the 'online bookies' in LOST revenue ?

Caoimhín

handsomecake wrote: »

i dont think you understand. you deposit the money from your credit card/current account in to paddy power.com. THEY ONLY ALLOW YOU TO DEPOSIT MONEY YOU ACTUALLY HAVE.YOU ARE NOT PLACING BETS DIRECTLY WITH YOUR CARD ON THE WEBSITE.YOU AUTHORISE A DEPOSIT AND THEN IT TAKES ABOUT TEN SECONDS TO GET AUTHORISATION FROM YOUR BANK AND THE MONEY GOES IN YOUR BETTING ACCOUNT.its not as if people are runing up overdrafts etc on gambling.

my girlfriend put two pairs of expensive shoes on her visa card last year. she didnt need the shoes....SHE COULDNT AFFORD THE SHOES.how is this different?

WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING!!!
sush, its early and i havent had my whiskey yet.

Caoimhín

handsomecake wrote: »

thank you darragh. exactly my point. it doesnt matter if your buying child porn with your credit card. once your paying your bill like every one else it is irrellevent what you spend your OWN money on.

Huh?

I think you will find that it does matter if you are buying child porn.

handsomecake

why dont we drug test every one who wants a mortgage too.
anyone one who tests positve for class a drugs cant control there finances.
and what about the girl with the penchant for dior bags from brown thomas?? she cant be trusted

handsomecake

Caoimhín wrote: »

WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING!!!
sush, its early and i havent had my whiskey yet.

im not shouting .do capital letters give an audio output on your laptop???????? you clearly didnt understand lower case

handsomecake

ill write in iambic pentameter if i want

Caoimhín

handsomecake wrote: »

im not shouting .do capital letters give an audio output on your laptop???????? you clearly didnt understand lower case

How did you know im using a laptop? Are you watching me as well as kiddie porn?

handsomecake

Caoimhín wrote: »

How did you know im using a laptop? Are you watching me as well as kiddie porn?

look. i was using that extreme to articulate the point.it doesnt matter whether you donate 50 euro to trocaire or 50 euro to ladbrokes. you still have debt of 50 euro.

the banks are (in a way) implying that people who gamble are not in control of it.

wyndham

This is nothing new and has been the situation since online gambling became widespread. The banks are correct in using every piece of information at their disposal to determine ability to repay. I see nothing wrong with it, provided a common sense approach is taken and someone who deposits €20 at grand national time every year is not castigated for it.
After all, it is the taxpayer who is now guaranteeing these loans, thus it is in everybodys interest that they do this.

What irks is that 'gambling' sites such as Paddy Power now have a much wider offering, including spread betting on share prices, which is actually a tax efficient way of taking a position in the markets. There is little difference between this and using other financial instruments with reputable brokers, including those owned by the very banks mentioned. It is difficult for them to judge on the basis of the transactions alone, in the case of some accounts, exactly what is going on.

Zangetsu

Caoimhín wrote: »

Huh?

I think you will find that it does matter if you are buying child porn.

Welcome to AH btw...

Caoimhín

handsomecake wrote: »

look. i was using that extreme to articulate the point..

Yeah yeah, i believe you.;)

humanji

handsomecake wrote: »

i spend money every week on gambling.
how do bank of ireland know whether im winning or losing on my bets. its not as if they ring paddy power or betfair to find out if my account is in profit.

i regularly get cheques from paddy power for my winnings.
probably 4 or 5 cheques a month and i only deposit maybe 20 a week.all the bank see is your "deposits" into these accounts. not your winnings. and frankly its none of there business. once your current account/credit card are tickety boo they should keep their nose out of it

You kind of proved my point. All the bank sees is you spending money on gambling. They don't have the time to do up a psychological profile to see if you have a gambling problem. They just do what's in their best interests. The article itself doesn't say that if you gamble they won't give you a morgage. They say that it's a factor they'd consider. If you have a choice between giving a loan to someone who gambled and someone who didn't, without knowing anythign about the two people and trying to guarantee that you get your money back and make a profit, you're definietly going to choose the person who doesn't gamble.

milod

milod wrote: »

Well you can see their point - they've learned the hard way... :pac:

As for betting with your credit card, anyone actually stupid enough to do this should not be allowed the responsibility of home ownership.

I cant see how using a credit card to put money into betfair etc is so stupid. Unless you have a debit card(which I only got recently) the only way is to use a credit card. It dosnt mean people are gambling money they dont have its just how you lodge money in the accounts.

If someone buy's something of ebay etc with their credit card does that automatically mean they are spending money they dont have?

No.

Doesn't bother me anyway I have withdrawn a lot more from by betfair account than I have lodged.

beezer84

It is ridiculous alright. They are basically pinpointing a service and saying if you use it they will reflect on you negatively. What about the people who go to the cash machine every day and go straight to the bookies. I know lads who do this every day, who maybe do have a problem, but these lads don't get tarnished with the same brush as the fella who wants to do his bit of gambling from the comfort of his own home.

nice1franko

Yeah, it's a bit thick really... what beezer says... plus, you can deposit money into any online gambling account with paypal, moneybookers, etc. so the bank would have no idea what you've spent the money on.

If this were to become standard practice by banks then the bookies will clean the payments that appear on your statement in a similar way (i.e. use a 3rd party payment processor). They're not going to lose out on custom by letting their customers be stigmatised or having their credit rating affected.

Also, I have shares in paddy power so even when I lose I win :pac:

nice1franko

milod wrote: »

As for betting with your credit card, anyone actually stupid enough to do this should not be allowed the responsibility of home ownership.

What an idiotic thing to say.

Not everyone who uses a credit card is using it because they need the credit.

Some cards offer rewards so it pays to use them, providing you pay you bill on time.

Cianos

Don't deposit directly on to the gambling site. Send your money through Moneybookers or Neteller. You can also cash out this way.

It is effectively free, and there is nothing to prove the money is making its way to a gambling site.

jester77

I think it's ridiculous. I could understand if someone was blowing large amounts of money but they are talking about small bets for as little as €30 a week. If they are going to go down this road will they start punishing someone for doing their weekly shopping at Tesco when they could have probably saved €30 by going to Lidl instead?

Darragh29

The mere notion of AIB or BOI penalising you for gambling is enough to make me want to put my foot through the monitor I am looking at! Kettles, pots, black arses??? :mad::mad::mad:

astrofool

Darragh29 wrote: »

The mere notion of AIB or BOI penalising you for gambling is enough to make me want to put my foot through the monitor I am looking at! Kettles, pots, black arses??? :mad::mad::mad:

So, because the banks were stupid with money, NOW, they should let everyone be stupid with money?

Are you going to try and keep bringing up this point till someone either:
Gives thanks because they don't realise how hypocritical the banking system can be.
Starts an argument about it.

dsmythy

astrofool wrote: »

So, because the banks were stupid with money, NOW, they should let everyone be stupid with money?

Are you going to try and keep bringing up this point till someone either:
Gives thanks because they don't realise how hypocritical the banking system can be.
Starts an argument about it.

Stupid with money? If someone is maxing out their card because they're constantly putting large amounts of money into a gambling account then yeah that would indicate a problem. But what if someone puts say 100 into an account every week? What's wrong with that if they want to spend their money that way and can afford it should they be a losing gambler?