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Don't want to pay holidays

  • 03-03-2009 11:56pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6


    I am working for a company the last year which I work very hard for. I am on €29000 and am made feel that I am very lucky even though I work for every penny. I realise I am lucky to have a job. My problem is I want to take a weeks holiday which I am owed from last year but was told that they don't want to pay for people sitting at home. I realise this is illegal but the way I feel is if I force the issue they will find a way to sack me. Any advice???


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,119 ✭✭✭Tails142


    eh, who told you that? give him a kick up the arse

    holidays form part of your contract and remuneration, if your direct manager wont authorise your leave (he can refuse to give you certain days, but not outright) go straight to your HR department/manager and request the leave from him


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6 RG09


    It's the owner who doesn't want me to have them. We don't have a HR Dept. When I say it, it's like you are lucky to have a job. Now I know I could just demand them and take them, but that could be the guns out for me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭leeroybrown


    If you're that worried about your job then perhaps it would be best to cut your losses, forget about those five days and make sure that you use all your days this year.

    Also, on a slightly unrelated note, it always amuses me when posters automatically roll out the 'talk to HR' line here. A very large chunk of Irish employees work for SMEs where the organisational structure is almost completely flat and there is no HR other than the owner/manager.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6 RG09


    They were the ones that wouldn't give me time to take them. So that means I could miss out on even more this year.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    It's best to take the holidays in the year they are due.
    A lot of places don't let you carry over holidays from one year to the next.

    "use them or lose them"
    I'm not saying you should write off these holidays but don't allow yourself to be in this situation again.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭leeroybrown


    RG09 wrote: »
    They were the ones that wouldn't give me time to take them. So that means I could miss out on even more this year.
    Unfortunately, I don't think that we can really advise you much more. They sound like a 'lovely' employer and without a lot of first hand knowledge about what they are like none of use could really make a call on how they would react if you start pushing a little.
    mikemac wrote: »
    It's best to take the holidays in the year they are due.
    A lot of places don't let you carry over holidays from one year to the next.
    Yes, but it's the employer's legal responsibility to ensure that the employee uses their holiday. If they don't they have to allow them to be carried over. They're just pushing their luck with the classic we can't let you take that week off line.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6 RG09


    I tried to take them but was not allowed. I am probably just venting I know my hands are tied and there is no real solution. Just find it funny if I stole €450 they would be the first ones to sack me, yet I can't do anything.

    Thanks


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,375 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    RG09 wrote: »
    I tried to take them but was not allowed. I am probably just venting I know my hands are tied and there is no real solution. Just find it funny if I stole €450 they would be the first ones to sack me, yet I can't do anything.

    Thanks
    You can do something (labor court) but your position in the company may then be less then favorable and you may end up losing the job (for a different reason on paper).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,489 ✭✭✭iMax


    Spend €50 get a sick note from your doc & take the time off. AFAIK you are legally required to take "X" amount of time from work.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,790 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    Definitely keep a record of all conversations with your employer regarding this issue. It sounds like they are going to get worse and push their "lucky to have a job" attitude further. If you need to take them to the LRC at a later date (constructive dismissal for example) then it's imperative you have copious notes relating to how they treated you "unfairly". Always look out for number one!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6 RG09


    I suppose I can take my holidays through sick pay. I will start keeping notes as this is just one of many things.Thanks for the feedback.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭leeroybrown


    RG09 wrote: »
    I suppose I can take my holidays through sick pay.
    That's a very bad idea - far worse than arguing for your holidays. If there's one thing that is likely to get an employer's back up in the current climate it's sick days.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 211 ✭✭House of Wolves


    My manager told us that we were not entitled to holiday pay (im a part time worker) even though I got it the last two years. He actually laughed at one of the employees for asking for it. Dont think there is a lot people can do, its either confront them and lose your job, or sit back and lose your money and holidays. not great options but I guess the latter is the best with a queue of people waiting for your job, and management trying to find cut backs and "downsize"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 211 ✭✭House of Wolves


    they are also giving my hours to 16 year olds because they can work well below the minimum wage (something like 6.40) an hour. :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,429 ✭✭✭testicle


    You can't take a week you are owed from last year. There is no legal obligation to carry such things over to this year. You snooze, you lose.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Who are you employed with? Just out of curiosity...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭Sleipnir


    testicle wrote: »
    You can't take a week you are owed from last year. There is no legal obligation to carry such things over to this year. You snooze, you lose.

    Well that depends. If you were entitled to 20 days holiday last year, but they would only let you take 15, then those 5 can't just disappear.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    testicle wrote: »
    You can't take a week you are owed from last year. There is no legal obligation to carry such things over to this year. You snooze, you lose.


    Op has already said he/she tried to take them but were refused...not his fault, onus is on employer to ensure he/she does not lose out, if that's teh case my employer could refuse me every day requested till end of holiday year and say 'you snooze, you lose. Not a hope in hell.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,375 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    testicle wrote: »
    You can't take a week you are owed from last year. There is no legal obligation to carry such things over to this year. You snooze, you lose.
    Beep, wrong answer. The employer is legally responsible to ensure that the employee takes their allotted 20 days of holidays in a year. If these days are not taken the employer has to carry them forward (or in case of the 21+ days also have the option to pay them).
    What if an employee does not take holidays within the leave year?
    The holidays must be given to the employee within the leave year or,
    with the employee’s consent, within 6 months of the following leave
    year. It is the responsibility of the employer to ensure that the
    employee takes his/her full statutory leave allocation within the
    appropriate period. Employees may, with the consent of the
    employer, carry over holidays in excess of statutory minimum leave
    to a following leave year.
    From here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 177 ✭✭al2009


    op, have you tried asking employer for 5 minutes and have a general "casual" chat about holidays and your general situation? You are entitled to be paid for any holidays not taken, maybe through some face to face negotiation you could reach a compromise?

    it could be that the company is under savage pressure for cash and a key employee taking holidays now may not suit.........but of course they could just be taking complete advantage...

    al


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭leeroybrown


    al2009 wrote: »
    You are entitled to be paid for any holidays not taken, maybe through some face to face negotiation you could reach a compromise?
    Not correct. It's illegal for the employer to pay an employee in lieu of any statutory annual leave they don't receive. As Nody points out above for days 21 and above of annual leave payment is an option but below that they can't legally pay instead even if both parties want to.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭amen


    Not correct. It's illegal for the employer to pay an employee in lieu of any statutory annual leave they don't receive. As Nody points out above for days 21 and above of annual leave payment is an option but below that they can't legally pay instead even if both parties want to.
    Not strictly true. If you have accrued holiday leave and you are leaving a company you are entitled to be paid for those holidays.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,031 ✭✭✭petethebrick


    I wouldn't stand for it. So many posters advice on this forum recently is Bull****. Just because there's a recession is no excuse for employers getting away with this sort of thing.
    In the past I've had employers try and not pay me holiday pay and found if I kept at them eventually always got it. You just have to reinforce the whole legal aspect of it enough times. If you lose your job as a result of doing this sue your company for unfair dismissal and move on


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭Kipperhell


    The best thing to do is arrange to talk to the guy in private. Explain that you believe you are entitled to these holidays. He probably won't agree from what you said. Don't threaten him with any sort of legal action no matter what. Keep a record of the meeting and diary of any events after that. Look for another job if you get one then file a grievance.

    If you are that worried about your job don't even ask again. You really need to leave and no matter how the law is on your side it isn't worth the hassle. You'll have people speak about how they wouldn't let it go but how many of them have ever actually done it? It really isn't easy and you could be bothered by events later on. Many bosses wouldn't hire a person who has gone to the labour court it doesn't matter if it is right or not.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭leeroybrown


    amen wrote: »
    Not strictly true. If you have accrued holiday leave and you are leaving a company you are entitled to be paid for those holidays.
    That's the obvious exception of course...
    I wouldn't stand for it. So many posters advice on this forum recently is Bull****. Just because there's a recession is no excuse for employers getting away with this sort of thing.
    As I pointed out earlier in the thread it depends on the employer and we can't really comment properly without knowing the situation. In the current climate without knowing the exact situation my advice would always be 'can you afford to lose your job?'. If the OP causes hassle and his employer needs to move someone on they could find them self promoted to the head of the exit queue.


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