What will it take to enforce the traffic laws?

Jawgap

Yesterday I was taking my usual spin into work and encountered a couple of the country's finest standing at a junction.

On the opposite road (the traffic coming towards me) the traffic was stopped and queued at the lights. At the front of the queue was a dumper truck. The driver was leaning over the sterring wheel chatting away into his mobile. I pointed this out to the two Guards and got a shrug and "ahh, he's grand" response.

I replied "Yeah, until he mills a cyclist or a pedestrian."

Guard one answered that with "Not in this traffic he won't."

I won't add what I said then, but it was only after the lights had gone green and I could make good my escape.

Anyway, the discourse with the Guards and reading some of this thread set me wondering - what will it take to get the Guards to properly enforce traffic laws in Dublin City centre for benefit of all road users and not just motor vehicles drivers?

My conclusion is pretty stark - I reckon until a Garda cyclist is seriously hurt or killed, we won't see effective enforcement of the road traffic laws.

Maybe someone in the Garda will arrive at that conclusion soon and act to prevent it becoming a reality.

Lumen

I think I read yesterday that most of the penalty points issued recently were for mobile phone use.

Doesn't excuse the stupidity of those guards though. Did you mention the levy?

KTRIC

I would have taken the car and drivers numbers and reported them to the Ombudsman. It'd wipe the stupid grin off their faces.

Jawgap

No - I said I supposed if he was carrying breakfast rolls a pair of fat f%&ks like them would have no problem crossing the road to talk to him!!!

One of them then shouted at me to come back!!! Yeah right, was my reaction.

I know there is probably a good argument to be made against stopping and pulling over a truck in the middle of the city during morning rush hour, but I thought they (or one of them) could've gone over and given him the gypsy's curse - open the door and give him a quick boll1cking.

Wish I said something cleverer, though - something about the levy would've been nice.

I also need to find a different route to work now for a few weeks - or at least until next week and they go on a different shift!!

ROK ON

Wasting yu time with Gardai IMO.
Last year I was turing right at a junction where I had the lights, a car who had a red light decided that he would continue driving and nearly drove into me.
2 bike Gardai were stopped at the lights.
In fairness the driver took fright and screetched to a halt, I swore at him, and contimued on my way. I was chased after by one of the Gardai, who threatened me with breach of the peace for swearing in a public place.
(The same week Brian Cowen used the same word I used in the Dail).
I suggested to the Garda that he should have pursued the driver, and the response was that he was grand becuase he recognised the error of his ways by stopping.
I have a very poor opinion of the calibre of people that make up the Gardai, so I am terribly biased in this. IMO theGardai do not care unless you are injured or killed. You are too much of an administrative hassle to deal with if you report a traffic offense when there is no injury involved.

beans

Re: Gardai not enforcing offenses - anyone ever get badge-numbers and stations? Making a complaint will probably have the same effect as losing your cool, but at least something might happen

Jawgap

ROK ON wrote: »

Wasting yu time with Gardai IMO.
Last year I was turing right at a junction where I had the lights, a car who had a red light decided that he would continue driving and nearly drove into me.
2 bike Gardai were stopped at the lights.
In fairness the driver took fright and screetched to a halt, I swore at him, and contimued on my way. I was chased after by one of the Gardai, who threatened me with breach of the peace for swearing in a public place.
(The same week Brian Cowen used the same word I used in the Dail).
I suggested to the Garda that he should have pursued the driver, and the response was that he was grand becuase he recognised the error of his ways by stopping.
I have a very poor opinion of the calibre of people that make up the Gardai, so I am terribly biased in this. IMO theGardai do not care unless you are injured or killed. You are too much of an administrative hassle to deal with if you report a traffic offense when there is no injury involved.

In general I agree with you The average plod isn't going to get off his fat arse to do anything meaningful that might benefit anyone other than himself.

However, I had one extremely positive experience of a Garda once (not in that way!!).

Coming up Dame Street and around by Christ Church this jeep nearly wiped me out making a right turn down Werburgh Street (I think). Anyway, I slapped on the brakes and missed getting clobbered by millimetres. As I'm stood there in shock, probably with a stupid look on my face I see this blur of yellow tear off down the road after the jeep.

After I recovered I spun down to see what was happening and here I find that the blur of yellow (a motor bike Garda) has apprehended the jeep. He saw me come cycling up and came back ànd asked me to hang on for a bit.

He finished up with the driver, then told me he had her details and he was thinking of prosecuting her because she'd be on the phone!!!. If he did, would I attend court as a witness. Obviously I said yes, and went along to Pearse Street the next day to give a statement.

Fast forward a few months when it went to court, she pleaded guilty to careless driving (this was pre-mobile phone ban) and got a 450 Euro fine. Because she pleaded guilty I didn't have to give evidence, but the Guard told me afterwards that she had been pleading not guilty, but when she (or her solicitor) saw I turned up she changed her plea.

Anyway, while most Guards couldn't be bothered, I think there are a few who are willing to do a bit of good occasionally.

Gavin

The Gardai over on the emergency services forum (it's an interesting read) point out that most people balk at going to court. A person makes their complaint and then when asked if they'll go all the way with it, they don't, so the Garda can't do anything then.

Lumen

Gavin wrote: »

The Gardai over on the emergency services forum (it's an interesting read) point out that most people balk at going to court. A person makes their complaint and then when asked if they'll go all the way with it, they don't, so the Garda can't do anything then.

In my limited experience of going to court, the Gardai see it as a nice day off. I've never seen such an amazing waste of resources as 10-20 of them sitting around all morning waiting for their cases to come up.

Gavin

Lumen wrote: »

In my limited experience of going to court, the Gardai see it as a nice day off. I've never seen such an amazing waste of resources as 10-20 of them sitting around all morning waiting for their cases to come up.

In that case (pun intended), you think the Gardai would be all on for doing anything they could to attend court, including stopping people for minor offences. The impression from ES is that they don't particularly like wasting time sitting around in a court and a more efficient process is needed.

xz

I once, whilst slowly approaching a set of lights that had just gone red, had a Guard, in his car on the opposite side of the junction, look both ways, then beckon me through as the left and right hand roads were clear of oncoming traffic, I bet he just didn't want to deal with the aftermath of my track stand going horribly wrong and me flopping to one side under a cars wheels.
But in all seriousness, I was pretty shocked at this gesture to say the least.

For the OP, this is just my own opinion, but at the end of the day a Garda, is , like you, just a human being, and like you, there are aspects to his job that may seem menial and mundane, and frankly, just not worth the hassle. i.e a driver of a dump truck STOPPED at lights, talking on his phone. If the Gardai were to act on every trivial little thing and not show common sense and discression,as they are trained to do( I hope), we would be accusing them of being jobsworths or even go as far as to say that we are living in a Police State or using the tried and trusted, "Why aren't you out catching REAL criminals"

Jawgap

xz wrote: »

........

For the OP, this is just my own opinion, but at the end of the day a Garda, is , like you, just a human being, and like you, there are aspects to his job that may seem menial and mundane, and frankly, just not worth the hassle. i.e a driver of a dump truck STOPPED at lights, talking on his phone. If the Gardai were to act on every trivial little thing and not show common sense and discression,as they are trained to do( I hope), we would be accusing them of being jobsworths or even go as far as to say that we are living in a Police State or using the tried and trusted, "Why aren't you out catching REAL criminals"

As I said, I didn't think he needed to pull him, but a bit of common sense policing migt have gone a long way - as in tap on the door and give him a boll1cking for being a prat.

If you believe in some of the theories of policing / enforcement, then it is the little things that should be picked up on too. The idea is that a bad driver (much like a bad cyclist) is a bad driver all the time and gives himself (or herself) away by their habits.

It was unlikely this guy was a conscientous driver who just happened on this one occasion to use his phone and has never done so before or since.

There is also loads of research to show why the fatality rates in Europe or light years ahead of developing countries when it comes to roads. After you screen out accidents associated with vehicle conditions and road design, your left with the drivers. Drivers the world over have been shown to be equally skillful, the deciding factor when it comes to safety is enforcement - the more rigorous the enforcement, the safer the roads.

Finally, what might be the cost of the Guard not picking up on behaviour such as this? It might be mundane to the Guard, it might even be mundane to all Guards, but the fact is it's a lot cheaper than scraping cyclists or pedestrians out from under such trucks and carting them off to hospital.

blorg

Just to throw it in here, I definitely find the worst behaviour coming from drivers of dump trucks and other construction traffic, many behave like you really don't exist. They are definitely worse than HGV drivers. I suspect it is something to do with the training.