PPS figures for February have been released

FreedomJoe

Looking at the PPS numbers issued for FEB, and the figures for non irish having PPS numbers issued is amazing.

But where are all the jobs for these people?

I dont seem to be able to find these jobsm how are they found from abroad?

The Dept of Welfare have just released the PPS numbers for February.

They break down as follows:

PPS numbers issued to people from Ireland: 7,086

PPS numbers issued to people not from Ireland: 7,291

Personal Public Service Numbers -Allocation By Nationality-All Countries 2009

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Topics/PPSN/Pages/ppsn_all_month09.aspx

Note more people from outside of Ireland were issued one.

Anyone care to justify this level of immigration in one month (some 1,800 immigrants per week) when jobs are being lost here at an unprecedented rate?

Combined with the figure from January that means we have taken in over 15,000 immigrants since 1 January.

why? And where are these jobs?

ongarite

Why does it matter? If non-national immegrants come to Ireland and can't get a job very quickly they will be leaving just as soon as they came in.
No benefits from social welfare of any kind for non-nationals unless they have been working here for 2 years and paying PRSI.

acontadino

freedom joe is one of those people who thinks you have to claim asylum in the first safe country you arrive in, even though this isn't the case.

and agree there ongarite...non-issue really.

FreedomJoe

acontadino wrote: »

freedom joe is one of those people who thinks you have to claim asylum in the first safe country you arrive in, even though this isn't the case.

and agree there ongarite...non-issue really.

Why wouldnt a genuine Asylum seeker claim Asylum in the first safe Haven they come to?

Imagine you have travelled thousands of miles from a war torn country where your life is in danger, you arrive in a EU country that you know is safe. What do you do? Feck it im off to IRELAND! That makes no sense at all. Unless of course you really arent a genuine refugee and more likely to be a economic migrant!

Mena

What does asylum have to do with the OP ?

We also have to exclude all the EU countries from this, a calculation I could not be arsed to do. It is interesting though. When I arrived in Ireland in 2000, after being head-hunted and going through an interview process worthy of a presidential seat, it was still really hard to get a work permit.

I can't for the life of me see how it would be any easier now...

O'Morris

Seven thousand a month is just far too high. That's more than three times the number of people who lost their jobs in Dell in Limerick a few months ago. How can we hope to deal with unemployment when we have that many people coming into the country looking for jobs every month. Even if most of them return home without having found any jobs, it really doesn't help things that people on the dole are having to compete with some many low-wage foreign workers.

As I've argued in other threads, if the government is serious about getting the Lisbon treaty passed they're going need to do something about this problem soon.

Mena

O'Morris wrote: »

Seven thousand a month is just far too high. That's more than three times the number of people who lost their jobs in Dell in Limerick a few months ago. How can we hope to deal with unemployment when we have that many people coming into the country looking for jobs every month. Even if most of them return home without having found any jobs, it really doesn't help things that people on the dole are having to compete with some many low-wage foreign workers.

As I've argued in other threads, if the government is serious about getting the Lisbon treaty passed they're going need to do something about this problem soon.

I'm not 100% convinced we're talking about low wage workers here. Most likely we're looking at people obtaining green cards, and these are for highly skilled positions.

Anyway, it's all speculation right now and that gets us nowhere.

Nodin

FreedomJoe wrote: »

Anyone care to justify this level of immigration in one month (some 1,800 immigrants per week) when jobs are being lost here at an unprecedented rate?

Students coming here require a PPS if they want to work part time, don't they?

AlekSmart

Students coming here require a PPS if they want to work part time, don't they?

Perhaps a clue lies in that highlighted couple of words.

Part of our Country`s co-ordinated response to the ongoing collapse appears to be a corporate focus on Part-Time working.

The current Dublin Bus situ being a case in point.

The many and varied aspects of this dispute appear to have fermented down to a single major point now.

The conversion of a Job from a formerly Full-Time one supporting a single Employee to a job which can support 1.5 employees at a far lesser rate.

Many Employers see it as a panacea which will save the ship,but I fear it simply introduces a new variant of problems into an already complex area.

It is equally relevant that the figures appearing on Dublin Bus noticeboards quoting VERY generous net-pay AFTER DSFA allowances are included do not as yet appear to have been confirmed by that Department as actually applying to somebody volunteering to move to a two day week.

So lets keep that focus on Part-Time working,which appears to have been a principle in Government for quite a while now anyway :mad:

djpbarry

FreedomJoe wrote: »

I dont seem to be able to find these jobsm how are they found from abroad?

Why do you assume that they’ve all found jobs?

FreedomJoe wrote: »

Anyone care to justify this level of immigration in one month (some 1,800 immigrants per week) when jobs are being lost here at an unprecedented rate?

As has been pointed on other threads in the past, the number of PPS numbers issued is not a very good indicator of immigration. Did the 7,000 odd Irish people who were issued PPS numbers just arrive in the country too?

Dob74

FF and ibec want to get rid of irish people.
We know what we should be getting paid. It's alot easier to exploit a foreign worker.
If an employeer wants to hire a foreign worker, they should have to pay at least 12k.
That how much it will cost for the gov to keep someone on the dole.

djpbarry

Dob74 wrote: »

If an employeer wants to hire a foreign worker, they should have to pay at least 12k.

For a full working week? Don't you think they should receive the minimum wage at least?

Akrasia

FreedomJoe wrote: »

Why wouldnt a genuine Asylum seeker claim Asylum in the first safe Haven they come to?

Imagine you have travelled thousands of miles from a war torn country where your life is in danger, you arrive in a EU country that you know is safe. What do you do? Feck it im off to IRELAND! That makes no sense at all. Unless of course you really arent a genuine refugee and more likely to be a economic migrant!

using logic are we?

Why would someone be worrying about PPS applications while a tiny minority of extremely wealthy IRISH people are shafting the rest of the nation to the tune of countless billions.

That makes no sense at all, unless of course you're a bigot who is more worried about keeping foreigners out than the social or economic health of the nation.

deadhead13

Work permits issued to foreigners in the second half of 2008 fell by 64% on the same period in 2007. Immigration from eastern and central europe has fallen by 53% in the period 2006 - 2007, I suspect a similar dramatic reduction happened last year and will continue to do so for the forseeable future - kind of puts a different perspective on things.

Also, the number of pps numbers issued gives no indication of the number of people leaving the country.

leeroybrown

This exact issue is also cross-posted in Work & Jobs. People can look here to see any opinions expressed there.

rmkfda

I'm awaiting my PPS number, and have no job yet (and am not on benefits!).

My housemate has just applied for his after working here for five months paying inflated tax rates. So I think it's partially as companies tighten up on PPS number requirement, foreign nationals are applying and increasing the figures.

djpbarry

rmkfda wrote: »

My housemate has just applied for his after working here for five months paying inflated tax rates.

You can't pay tax without a PPS number.

Kev_ps3

FreedomJoe wrote: »

Looking at the PPS numbers issued for FEB, and the figures for non irish having PPS numbers issued is amazing.

But where are all the jobs for these people?

I dont seem to be able to find these jobsm how are they found from abroad?

The Dept of Welfare have just released the PPS numbers for February.

They break down as follows:

PPS numbers issued to people from Ireland: 7,086

PPS numbers issued to people not from Ireland: 7,291

Personal Public Service Numbers -Allocation By Nationality-All Countries 2009

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Topics/PPSN/Pages/ppsn_all_month09.aspx

Note more people from outside of Ireland were issued one.

Anyone care to justify this level of immigration in one month (some 1,800 immigrants per week) when jobs are being lost here at an unprecedented rate?

Combined with the figure from January that means we have taken in over 15,000 immigrants since 1 January.

why? And where are these jobs?

Its very simple. The elite in this country want cheap labour. They dont care one bit about the Irish people. Thats why they should be removed.

djpbarry

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

The elite in this country want cheap labour. They dont care one bit about the Irish people. Thats why they should be removed.

I agree; all Irish people should be removed. These large numbers of Irish people applying for PPS numbers are obviously intent on entering the job market and competing with the already large numbers of unemployed people in this country.

rmkfda

djpbarry wrote: »

You can't pay tax without a PPS number.

If you don't have a PPS number you pay emergency tax (much higher rate) until you get one

Fratton Fred

Of course everyone entering Ireland is either Polish or Nigerian I suppose. What about those born up north, or the offspring of returning Irish nationals who have been living abroad?

djpbarry

rmkfda wrote: »

If you don't have a PPS number you pay emergency tax (much higher rate) until you get one

No, you pay emergency tax if your employer does not hold a certificate of tax credits for you - sounds like your housemate needs to apply for one:
http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/forms/form12a.pdf

Bottle_of_Smoke

Any idea how many of those PPS numbers went to people from outside the EU, because there's no other way of stopping the rest.

Also, they could have been here well before they got the PPS numbers

Dannyboy83

rmkfda wrote: »

I'm awaiting my PPS number, and have no job yet (and am not on benefits!).

My housemate has just applied for his after working here for five months paying inflated tax rates. So I think it's partially as companies tighten up on PPS number requirement, foreign nationals are applying and increasing the figures.

Your housemate needs to get Form12A for first time taxation.
He will be refunded the tax, but I think the new levies are retrospective - not 100% on that.
I would tell your house mate to do it ASAP.



To the OP,
The PPS numbers mean nothing.
There are lots of foreigners who come here just to get the PPS number and be registered in the system for when the times will be good again.
Off the top of my head, it was 2005 when they introduced controls on PPS numbers.
I remember because I was living with a Polish girlfriend at the time, and there was a mini- black market running among the Poles, buying and selling them.

You need to have about 21 months employment in this country over the last 4/5 years in order to claim any social welfare payments but half of them wouldn't even know if they were entitled anyway.
They wouldn't understand about Medical cards either.

Lots of the Eastern European immigrants, when they are going home, they meeting incoming immigrants and sell on driving licenses, television licenses, pps numbers, car insurance...... just about anything you could imagine really.

If you want a real representation of how many incoming foreigners or remaining foreigners we have - speak to any bank manager.

I know someone in a high position in one bank who told me he estimated at least 50% of the Eastern European immigrants had closed their accounts and left Ireland over the last 9 to 12 months.

I used to have about 60 Polish friends, possibly more and about 20 from Russia, Baltic and other places living here in Ireland.
Off the top of my head, 12 of them are left here - i.e. 65-75% have left Ireland

I have heard of the odd immigrant coming back to claim social welfare and going mad because none of their friends are left here and its too lonely.

Dannyboy83

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Of course everyone entering Ireland is either Polish or Nigerian I suppose. What about those born up north, or the offspring of returning Irish nationals who have been living abroad?

Those born up North would be fcuking mad coming to Ireland, can't imagine there are many of them.

Offspring of Irish nationals who have been living abroad........those days are gone I'm afraid. Look at all the people going to Canada and Australia at the moment.

Dannyboy83

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Any idea how many of those PPS numbers went to people from outside the EU, because there's no other way of stopping the rest.

Also, they could have been here well before they got the PPS numbers

LOL, how about the ones "within" the EU?

I would at a rough guess estimate that 15% of the Baltic Immigrants, particularly Lithuanians whom I've met in Cork have actually been Georgians who just bought or stole passports.
If you know anything in the least about Georgians, you could tell them a mile off from Central Europeans - completely different language & alphabet, very dark skin almost like Arabs, cultures & customs are half way between Europe and Iran.

I just cannot understand how customs/airport police or whoever wouldn't be able to notice the difference.

ostrich

Freedom of movement within the EU. Some wise irishmen are already out there in Europe as a result of this. They are not here moaning like you lot

Dob74

djpbarry wrote: »

For a full working week? Don't you think they should receive the minimum wage at least?

Sorry if i did not make myself clear.
What I meant is that an employer should have to pay the gov 12k a year
to hire a foreign worker. That's how much it costs to keep someone on the dole. Unemployment 10% and rising.

Mena

Dob74 wrote: »

Sorry if i did not make myself clear.
What I meant is that an employer should have to pay the gov 12k a year
to hire a foreign worker. That's how much it costs to keep someone on the dole. Unemployment 10% and rising.

Can I claim back my PRSI over the past nine years then? And exempt all foreign nationals from PRSI?

P. Breathnach

Mena wrote: »

Can I claim back my PRSI over the past nine years then? And exempt all foreign nationals from PRSI?

Of course not. Don't be silly. Just give us all your money and property and go home; you have to remember that it is really our money and property, and we were allowing you the luxury of getting close to it (the smell of money is a great incentiviser, but don't confuse the smell of it with the ownership of it).

If we ever have a labour shortage again, we'll write to you.

Mena

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Of course not. Don't be silly. Just give us all your money and property and go home; you have to remember that it is really our money and property, and we were allowing you the luxury of getting close to it (the smell of money is a great incentiviser, but don't confuse the smell of it with the ownership of it).

If we ever have a labour shortage again, we'll write to you.

Thanks, you're welcome to it and both my cars, just take over the payments as well please

Dob74

Mena wrote: »

Can I claim back my PRSI over the past nine years then? And exempt all foreign nationals from PRSI?

Of course.
You can hire non-nationals at cheaper rates and undermine employers who pay fair wages. Then we can get rid of all irish workers and replace them cheap non-nationals. Then when we lose an election or Treaty vote, we will just have another one til the people vote the correct way.

We must make sure that no one in a white collar job is threatened with these non-nationals. Especially anyone living in south Dublin who attended a fee paying school and people with politial connections with to FF&FG.
Anyone who can produce anything tangible most go. Like Waterford cystral but anyone who is invovled in the banking industry most be protected at all costs. After all they produce nothing and can live on the buying and selling of others.

Long live Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, The PD's, ISME and IBEC

P. Breathnach

Mena wrote: »

Thanks, you're welcome to it and both my cars, just take over the payments as well please

Maybe I'll meet you halfway: the better one of the cars and the smaller one of the two loans.

djpbarry

Dob74 wrote: »

We must make sure that no one in a white collar job is threatened with these non-nationals.

Yeah, because foreign nationals don't have third-level qualifications or anything, do they?

:rolleyes: