Where are all the JOBS?

FreedomJoe

Looking at the PPS numbers issued for FEB, and the figures for non irish having PPS numbers issued is amazing.

But where are all the jobs for these people?

I dont seem to be able to find these jobs how are they from abroad?

The Dept of Welfare have just released the PPS numbers for February.

They break down as follows:

PPS numbers issued to people from Ireland: 7,086

PPS numbers issued to people not from Ireland: 7,291

Personal Public Service Numbers -Allocation By Nationality-All Countries 2009

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Topics/PPSN/Pages/ppsn_all_month09.aspx

Note more people from outside of Ireland were issued one.

Anyone care to justify this level of immigration in one month (some 1,800 immigrants per week) when jobs are being lost here at an unprecedented rate?

Combined with the figure from January that means we have taken in over 15,000 immigrants since 1 January.

why? And where are these jobs?

maxwell smart

I see 2 guys from Barbados and 1 from the Cayman Islands came here, don't they realise what our weather is like?????

Seriously though, immigration is somethiing that we can do nothing about. These people are legally here for whatever reason they gave. Some might be investing here, adding value to a company. Some maybe on the run! Until we have a full and open debate in this country about our view on "immigrants" then this will continue.. I think there are huge numbers of Irish people who are very close to becoming racist, something that would be terrible considering our own history of emmigration

anladmór

just want to start off by saying i like multicultred society(done well it has great benefits and don't anyone give me your little opinion i don't care) and absolute hate racism.

but some of these figures are insane.

687 brazilians in two months? thats an insane amount in my opinion, especially considering i would expect the majority of these would be in the young working age bracket.

look at the amount of scottish as well, thats a very high figure. polish rate is also very high.


one thing though id expect and know many leave when they can't find work..kinda like whats happening in most places.

breadmonkey

Sorry, couldn't resist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2fGl9587X8

deadhead13

The ERSI project Irish emigration wil reach 20,000 by the end of the year. The same comments will appear on internet forums abroad about the Irish.

leeroybrown

The vast majority of good applicants for jobs where I work are from non-Irish citizens and a decent proportion of the good applicants are non-EU/non-EEA. We'd love to have more qualified/suitable Irish applicants to consider but as it's a high skill technical/scientific area it's just not going to happen. The reduced numbers of people studying technical, scientific, engineering and mathematical disciplines to a high level in this country means this is an issue that is not going away any time soon. There are plenty more employers with exactly this issue.

In addition, despite the downturn, Dublin still has a sizeable number of employers who use it as a multi-language hub employing foreigners fluent in one or more languages in addition to English. There is always a transient community of these people who spend two or three years in Ireland. It seems to be a location where people are happy to travel to to work.

Unfortunately, I also have to add that (in my opinion) a lot of the graduates that Irish Universities produce are less well educated and less competent than their immigrant peers.

FreedomJoe

leeroybrown wrote: »

The vast majority of good applicants for jobs where I work are from non-Irish citizens and a decent proportion of the good applicants are non-EU/non-EEA. We'd love to have more qualified/suitable Irish applicants to consider but as it's a high skill technical/scientific area it's just not going to happen. The reduced numbers of people studying technical, scientific, engineering and mathematical disciplines to a high level in this country means this is an issue that is not going away any time soon. There are plenty more employers with exactly this issue.

In addition, despite the downturn, Dublin still has a sizeable number of employers who use it as a multi-language hub employing foreigners fluent in one or more languages in addition to English. There is always a transient community of these people who spend two or three years in Ireland. It seems to be a location where people are happy to travel to to work.

Nearly half a million unemployed Irish and you cant find any decent Irish employees?

We really are in trouble!

leeroybrown

FreedomJoe wrote: »

Nearly half a million unemployed Irish and you cant find any decent Irish employees?

Yeah. We often have trouble finding decent Irish applicants let alone Irish employees. It's worth noting that what we're far from your typical employer as we're recruiting highly educated (generally PhD level) staff in a niche area but even factoring that in we'd hope to have a better indigenous pool of talent.

Even our less niche job offerings struggle to find really good Irish candidates as they require high levels of technical skill. There is a limited qualified labour pool once you set the bar to a reasonable level in technical areas.

janullrich

Ireland is in a shocking state at the moment. That is all I will say. I have work but if I could get out I would but I just can't because a lot of other places like Germany are facing a lot of problems.

the_syco

maxwell smart wrote: »

I think there are huge numbers of Irish people who are very close to becoming racist, something that would be terrible considering our own history of emmigration

This will happen because when we try to discuss it, people tend to stand up and call those responsible for the discussion racists, Nazi's, etc.

sNarah

Another funny thing about this is: (from my experience working in a recruitment agency)

There are loads and loads international HQ's set up in and around Dublin. They operate mainly their European section from there and therefore need multilingual staff. Now, these, quite obviously, will be immigrants, since most Irish natives master English and nothing much more.

The thing that surprised me -and this being a foreigner myself- they would for instance have a vacancy for a spanish/portugese IT tech support role somewhere. Succesfull application will be flown to the HQ for the initial interview, ok fair enough, but then, if they get hired, they get the full relocation package.

This includes:
- 3 months paid accomodation
- Flight to Dublin (plus partner is needed)
(I'm thinking now, dammit, I should have done that as well :-))

So, i would think those many brazilian immigrants (as being a the sole portugese speaking nation surrounded by spanish nation) could most likely come to Ireland for jobs like that.. On the other hand, those jobs are usually pretty boring, not much careerprospect etc., so most people only last a couple of months, a year max.

As anladmór and leeroybrown said before, they don't tend to stay for many years, but they do get PPS n°s assigned. A PPS n° doens't automaticly mean that the person linked to it is a) actaully working and b) still even in Ireland.

I wonder, do they not have a list of "active" PPSns?

Alun

sNarah wrote: »

As anladmór and leeroybrown said before, they don't tend to stay for many years, but they do get PPS n°s assigned. A PPS n° doens't automaticly mean that the person linked to it is a) actaully working and b) still even in Ireland.

I wonder, do they not have a list of "active" PPSns?

I suppose they could do that based on whether, for example, PRSI or PAYE payments were being made to that PPS number, but there's no way of de-activating a PPS number, or any incentive to do so if there was, if you leave the country as far as I know.

doolox

It would appear that the foreigners are more clever than we are but that would be viewing things through the prism of distance both physical and in terms of living standards.
People form Asia and Africa are leaving substantially lower standards of living to come to Ireland for the high wages here.We can cherry pick the brightest and best from countries like Nigeria and India which are 100's bigger than we are.
America has been doing this for decades leaving the home countries without the experts they educated and developed but leaving their new countries richer for the experience. For example our health services depend on foreign doctors to staff our hospitals because our own are gone off to America to get the big bucks. We can't afford Irish doctors for our own people.
It will get worse as this recession gets deeper and native people get pushed aside by the more talented hoards of foreigners who will come here for jobs.
We no longer have the social safety valve of emigration as we had in the past.
Unlike the old days when unskilled people could take up domestic service to make ends meet, there are very few viable unskilled jobs left to do. People will not hire other people as they are now afraid to spend money and will find it harder to make enough to live on.
This will feed in on itself and make things worse. IBEC reckons we will have 14% unemployed by end of 2009, maybe even more.

Mena

doolox wrote: »

It would appear that the foreigners are more clever than we are but that would be viewing things through the prism of distance both physical and in terms of living standards.
People form Asia and Africa are leaving substantially lower standards of living to come to Ireland for the high wages here.

While you may be correct, in general, it's not always absolutely true. I actually moved into what I would consider a lower standard of living by some accounts. Sure it's safer here, but I do miss my swimming pool. I'm not alone in this either.

As to the OP, I think we (and I say we, being here nine years now and I call it home) will need to watch this carefully as Ireland is a small country and cannot absorb unlimited immigration. While it was not a problem for the past 10 years, it's getting tight now and will continue to do so for the next couple of years I imagine.

demakinz

25 unknown..........?????????

AARRRGH

We had an application for a work permit turned down recently, so things are getting tougher.

Has anyone else noticed the amount of Irish people doing "immigrant" jobs, e.g. working the tills of dunnes, MacDonalds, etc.? Amazing how quickly things change.

Mena

AARRRGH wrote: »

We had an application for a work permit turned down recently, so things are getting tougher.

Has anyone else noticed the amount of Irish people doing "immigrant" jobs, e.g. working the tills of dunnes, MacDonalds, etc.? Amazing how quickly things change.

I've actually noticed this more and more over the past 12 months or so, but then I don't live in Dublin so the picture is a little different.

seamus

Look at those statistics correctly. Since we all have the right to live and work in other EU members states, then we cannot say that EU nationals given PPSNs are "non-Irish", because we have an identical opportunity to work in their country. It's not like Irish jobs are being "given" to these people, they have a right to be here.

When you take the figures that way, it's 12,085 EU citizens versus 2319 non-EU citizens. A lot less scandalous now, don't you think? And of that 2319, nearly half (or maybe more) are from countries which have schemes in place which allow our citizens to go over there and occupy similar numbers of jobs - USA, Canada, Oz, etc.

The simple fact is if there are no jobs here, people won't come. Immigration works like osmosis, and if the work wasn't available, people wouldn't come in. There's all sorts of talk of "The Poles are taking their money and going home to get jobs". If that's the case, then why in God's name did 3,000 of them apply for PPSNs in the last two months? Are they just stupid? Or maybe it's bad, but it's not nearly as bad as the media are making out.

Mrs OBumble

I wonder, how many of those numbers are for students? Or for babies born to people whose status means that the baby doesn't automatically get Irish citizenship?

(I wonder what the Americans are saying about Irish youngsters who go over there to work for the summer ...)

Highsider

Doors should have been shut to them long time ago..except for the sexy wimmens:cool:

Arathorn

Guys the non eu people are coming here applying for pps numbers and usually not finding work and having to go back home after a few months. Most will spend all there savings here while they look for that precious job. Supply and demand. Wont make much difference blocking these people as if there's jobs there are plenty of eastern europeans who will come without the need for a visa

leeroybrown

It's worth bearing in mind that in some cases, particularly where reasonably well paid skilled jobs are involved, an immigrant will have a spouse/partner and possibly children who will qualify for visas to enter the country. These additional people will naturally register for a PPS number at some stage.

janullrich

A brilliant editorial by the Irish Independent about this on Thursday. It stated that there should have been controls in place and that there was no planning done for what happens when things are bad. As it is we have a lot of people both Irish and non-Irish on the dole or worse case scenerio on the poverty line. The government are equally to blame for this mess as anything else. They assumed that the party would go on for ever and that in doing so they would make no plans if we hit trouble while squandering money in the meantime while times were good