Air Corps AW 139 in emergency landing

Tabnabs

Cullen helicopter in emergency landing
Monday, 2 March 2009 16:46

A helicopter carrying Minister for Tourism Martin Cullen was forced to make an emergency landing in Killarney this afternoon.

Mr Cullen had just finished addressing the annual conference of the Irish Hotels Federation and the Air Corps AW 139 had taken off from the grounds of the Malton Hotel in Killarney.

The left-hand side door of the helicopter fell off at a height of 500ft as it flew over Killarney National Park at Castlerosse outside the town.

The helicopter made an emergency landing nearby at Killarney Golf and Fishing Club.

No one was injured in the incident.

Eye witnesses say Mr Cullen, who was flying with an assistant and a crew of three, was shaken following the incident.

He has since continued his journey by road to Kerry Airport from where he is expected to get a flight back to Dublin.

The Defence Forces said in a statement that the aircraft is on the ground until a Military Airworthiness Inspection Team and technicians from Air Corps HQ, Casement Aerodrome, Baldonnel examine it.

This team will fly to Kerry to assess the helicopter and it will be moved after the inspection.

The passengers had boarded the helicopter through the right hand side door before take off.

The same helicopter brought Minister Cullen from Waterford to Killarney this morning and was returning to Dublin when the incident occurred.

According to the Defence Forces, the AW 139 can fly with doors open under certain speeds, but this is normally in military and winching roles.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0302/cullenm.html

Manic Moran

Just no quality control these days...

I'm reminded of the RAF helo which lost a door at Salthill last year.

NTM

minidazzler

Manic Moran wrote: »

Just no quality control these days...

I'm reminded of the RAF helo which lost a door at Salthill last year.

NTM

I wonder will they stop the DF flying now, like they stopped the Airshow, because of 1 mishap!!!

spadder

Dyflin wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0302/cullenm.html

"He has since continued his journey by road to Kerry Airport from where he is expected to get a flight back to Dublin"

Why didn't the stupid B@stard just go home in the car?
No doubt, another state car will have the meet the little bollix at the airport.

twinytwo

minidazzler wrote: »

I wonder will they stop the DF flying now, like they stopped the Airshow, because of 1 mishap!!!

Oh maybe he will just drive his car to dublin like everyone else... or wait for it ... take the train:D

chiefwiggum

was workin right beside the 6 of them the other day...i swear i had nothing to do with it...........

slapper

feck him on to a train
cheaper in this day and age

deRanged

They diverted a second 139 from Cork to go get him.

rte.ie news wrote:

He continued his journey by road to Kerry Airport from where a second AW 139 helicopter, which was diverted from a training exercise in Cork, picked him up and is returning him to Dublin.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0302/cullenm.html

Maybe he'll be so shook up that he'll stay out of them in future, instead of wasting their time.

minidazzler

deRanged wrote: »

They diverted a second 139 from Cork to go get him.


http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0302/cullenm.html

Maybe he'll be so shook up that he'll stay out of them in future, instead of wasting their time.

In fairness, it doesn't waste the Aer Corps time, they get flying Hours and more experience out of it.


It does however waste Tax-payers money, which is unforgivable.

spadder

minidazzler wrote: »

In fairness, it doesn't waste the Aer Corps time, they get flying Hours and more experience out of it.


It does however waste Tax-payers money, which is unforgivable.

We should'nt be wasting €10 on a bus eireann ticket on this useless Fcuker never mind diverting a chopper:mad::mad::mad:

Fishtits

Rant: let the buggers travel by road, observing the speed limits... might open their eyes... :mad:

Serious: lucky errant door didn't foul tail rotor, would have got really untidy... :eek:

Guess whoever "closed" the door is subject to "heat" at the moment.

(If there was ever a TD that needed "heat" it has to be Cullen, E-voting anyone?)

Jim236

minidazzler wrote: »

I wonder will they stop the DF flying now, like they stopped the Airshow, because of 1 mishap!!!

That wasn't why they axed Salthill, it was because of USAF aircraft being in it which the Mayor and hippy groups were against because of the war in Iraq.

arybvtcw0eolkf

spadder wrote: »

"He has since continued his journey by road to Kerry Airport from where he is expected to get a flight back to Dublin"

Why didn't the stupid B@stard just go home in the car?
No doubt, another state car will have the meet the little bollix at the airport.

Tone it down, this isn't After Hours - ok?.

.

spadder

Mairt wrote: »

Tone it down, this isn't After Hours - ok?.

.

Sorry, just angry about this.

OS119

minidazzler wrote: »

In fairness, it doesn't waste the Aer Corps time, they get flying Hours and more experience out of it.

actually, it did waste AC time - an AW139 was pulled off a training exercise (which could of been anything from a basic familiarisation flight, through 'nap of the earth' low-level advanced flying training, to moving a Javelin ATGW team around on a live-fire 'shoot and scoot' exercise) just to move some oxygen thief who could of just as easily used road transport.

had it been sat on the ground with its crew playing with themselves in the crew room then you might of had a point, but this was not an occasion when this precious state asset had nothing better to do.

Morpheus

I must agree with some of the posts above. removing a heli from training - reconfiguring it to VIP mode and sending a fat cat to open a bloody hotel is a complete waste of taxpayers money in this current climate - then removing a second heli to complete the task of the first one.

These guys should be leading by example, refusing VIP treatment and using the fleet of cars at their disposal.

Im sure the investigation into this will come to a swift conclusion as far as I remember the Wolfhound's travel with 2 pilots and a loadmaster, would hope the loadmaster had closed the door properly and it was a techy fault. Awful that said VIP wasnt sucked out - oops, typo, i meant awful lucky of course...

Seriously though we should be up in arms about all wasteful expenditure especially this kind of junket. Military helis should be just that, not this crap of being capable of being transformed into a vip transport. if it means that much then get rid of one of the jets and instead add a dedicated vip heli to the MATS fleet.

deRanged

minidazzler wrote: »

In fairness, it doesn't waste the Aer Corps time, they get flying Hours and more experience out of it.

I'm all for the AC getting flight time, I question whether or not it should be in the taxi role.

I know, every flight is experience, and no doubt every flight is valuable to a pilot/crew, and maybe the AC does factor that into the equation but I hate reading about ministers getting flights like that when there's a perfectly good alternative - the roads they insist are good enough for us.

We have 6 of them. Using one third of the countries assets because a minister can't manage his diary is appalling.

(yeah, I'm jealous. I'd love a flight in the 139.).

Steyr

Jim236 wrote: »

That wasn't why they axed Salthill, it was because of USAF aircraft being in it which the Mayor and hippy groups were against because of the war in Iraq.

Wrong.

BrianD

Jim236 wrote: »

That wasn't why they axed Salthill, it was because of USAF aircraft being in it which the Mayor and hippy groups were against because of the war in Iraq.

They are not hippies. they are ordinary people who oppose injustice i.e. Gitmo and extraordinary renditions. Practices that the current Chief of the US forces does not agree with and is eliminating.

afatbollix

slapper wrote: »

feck him on to a train
cheaper in this day and age

if you book it on time its cheaper to fly!!!!

slapper

afatbollix wrote: »

if you book it on time its cheaper to fly!!!!

ya ryanair flies from kerry to dublin dont they
and he could pay to use the jacks as well:D

vulcan57

minidazzler wrote: »

In fairness, it doesn't waste the Aer Corps time, they get flying Hours and more experience out of it.


It does however waste Tax-payers money, which is unforgivable.

It was a waste of time as he was using the air corps in the first place before an aircraft had to divert from training and, consequently, ended up using not a AW139 but 2 of them! Like I said on another thread, would of cost in the region of €30 to fly Ryanair from Kerry to Dublin, How much did this fiasco cost the tax payer?

Steyr

I see Gordon Brown flew on a BA777 to meet President Obama, now if he can do that why cant we?

Morpheus

knock on effect on the training plan too, that would have to be rescheduled and could involve anything from simple flight training to troop carrying, winch work, range practice (i mean the door mounted GPMG), load carrying troop insertion, resupply or ARW training etc, all of which would have to be knocked on the head and started fresh by the DOD.

spadder

Steyr wrote: »

I see Gordon Brown flew on a BA777 to meet President Obama, now if he can do that why cant we?

When Tony Blair was in power, he used Ryanair for his holiday trips

Manic Moran

as I remember the Wolfhound's travel with 2 pilots and a loadmaster

Please tell me that's a nickname for the squadron, and not a nickname for the helicopter.

NTM

Jim236

Steyr wrote: »

Wrong.

If it was because of safety as a result of that incident, there wouldn't be talk of it returning this summer. And no doubt if it does it will be without USAF aircraft...not that it matters now with the US to pull out of Iraq.

Capt'n Midnight

Fishtits wrote:

Guess whoever "closed" the door is subject to "heat" at the moment.

(If there was ever a TD that needed "heat" it has to be Cullen, E-voting anyone?)

I'm sure the electronic door interlock/indicator is just as secure as E-voting

AircraftTechie

Manic Moran wrote: »

Please tell me that's a nickname for the squadron, and not a nickname for the helicopter.

NTM

I think the IAC had the priviledge of naming the helicopter.

Manic Moran

I don't see anything in official documentation anywhere, certainly the AW website is silent on the issue. Given the Irish tendancy to simply call equipment after the manufacturer, I wonder why they think this particular piece is worthy of a nickname?

Isn't a Wolfhound a very large dog with big teeth capable of taking on feared opposition? Strikes me more like a description of an Mi-24 than an air taxi painted green.

Indeed, amusingly, in the list of applications that the manufacturer suggests the helicopter is suitable for, from "VIP" through "Harbour Pilot Shuttle", anything military seems remarkably absent.

http://www.agustawestland.com/products01_01.php?id_product=15

NTM

Capt'n Midnight

Wolfhounds are good for minding children

Morpheus

Yes, as the first "military" user we were given the privilege and the defence forces named it the AW139 Wolfhound.

OS119

Morphéus wrote: »

Yes, as the first "military" user we were given the privilege and the defence forces named it the AW139 Wolfhound.

thats embarrassing...

calling the 139 'wolfhound' is not unakin to Arko calling his patriotic rapists 'white wolves'... its just bigging up a 3rd class asset to try to hide the true nature of the beast - or timid little mouse as may be the case!

Morpheus

well judging by the scant few here who actually knew that it had a designated name in the first place, it doesnt seem to have been a PR stunt, more some sort of a traditional honor done by the heli manufacturer.

Anyway, what does everyone here think of the suggestion of trimming the lear or gulf jet (whichever is worse for wear) and buying 2 VIP transport choppers purely for MATS, im sure in the current economic recession there are a few developers ex toys knocking about for cheap.

iceage

Make them use the fecking Dip. mercs/volvos or what ever they are using now. Or better still drive himself there.:mad:
It would have been cheaper to send him down there put him up in Jurys, wine and dined him and send him home. Traumatized when the door fell off was he.....he should be traumatized by the bill.

Reg'stoy

Manic Moran wrote: »

Indeed, amusingly, in the list of applications that the manufacturer suggests the helicopter is suitable for, from "VIP" through "Harbour Pilot Shuttle", anything military seems remarkably absent.

http://www.agustawestland.com/products01_01.php?id_product=15

NTM

Now I may be Joe public but why did they not buy the aw149 thats listed on the link Manic posted. It mentions battlefield and armies or is it the case that they never wanted to buy an aircarft to carry out these roles. To my untrained eye and I'll hold up my hands if I'm wrong here but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of difference between them, apart from the obvious, that one is a military aircaft and the other is not (guess which one they bought for our army).

edit.....
I missed another obvious difference, it seems the 149 does not have Tea and Coffee facilites, word is, that was the deal breaker.

Morpheus

From www.breakingnews.ie

Arts, Sports and Tourism Minister Martin Cullen has defended his use of Air Corps helicopters for official business.

The minister was speaking following an incident on Monday in which the door fell off an aircraft he was travelling in shortly after take-off from Killarney.

Minister Cullen continued his journey - which cost almost €8,000 - in a substitute Air Corps helicopter.

Questioned by reporters in Dublin this morning, he said 90% of the cost of running these helicopters was incurred whether he used them or not.

He also said he managed to do about eight functions on Monday as a result of using the helicopter when, without it, he would only have been able to do one.

Questioned by reporters in Dublin this morning, he said 90% of the cost of running these helicopters was incurred whether he used them or not.

CHRIST IN A HANDBASKET - 90% was incurred whether he used them or not, but that 90% cost is better incurred on military missions and not ferrying his fat, ignorant, gobsmackingly arrogant, shiny suited ar$e to f*cking hotel federation junkets. You pig ignorant excuse for a politician, I hope this shower are forced to drive or use alternative transport in future. this is an astounding waste of public money. EIGHT THOUSAND EUROS? My christ what a waster - and i mean that in every way.

from Irish Independent

Cullen's flight of fantasy
Wednesday March 04 2009

The famous movie line "you were only meant to blow the bloody doors off" is used in popular banter to decry behaviour which is somewhat over the top. It sits comfortably alongside "if you find yourself in a hole, stop digging."

Martin Cullen's profligacy was exposed when his helicopter door blew off, but he just kept right on digging.

The Tourism Minister's €8,130 round trip to address the Irish Hotels Federation in Killarney has been rightly criticised on the basis of cost, but the excuse he offered also raises disquieting questions about how the Government goes about its business and how gullible its ministers believe the public to be.

Cheaper trains, planes and ministerial automobiles were available to him, but Mr Cullen chose to enlist the services of the Air Corps, at huge cost.

This at a time when ordinary people are being told to tighten their belts and public service waste is supposedly being curbed.

By way of explanation, Mr Cullen said he had to get back to Dublin quickly in order to attend an important meeting with the Minister for Finance.

He had been waiting two weeks for this meeting and could not let the unique opportunity pass.

Are we to believe that, in the middle of a national crisis, ministers have to make appointments to meet each other and that there is a two-week waiting time?

Such thoughtless behaviour followed by lame excuses are an insult to the intelligence.

Will they ever learn?

Pigs might fly.

The pig WAS flying.

No wonder public perception of this bullish govt is as bad as it is, they think that they can force us to swallow all these cuts and tax increases and still swan around in utter luxury sh!tt!ng great geysers of our money into the stratosphere.

neilled

Reg'stoy wrote: »

Now I may be Joe public but why did they not buy the aw149 thats listed on the link Manic posted.............

Because the way the tendering process works is that the Defence Forces in Conjunction with DOD and Finance set a spec and budget, timescale, support plans etc for items and invite tenders from manufacturers to meet said spec and the most appropriate one is selected or not selected as the case may be if its felt the spec hasn't been met.

As of now the AW149 is still in prototype stage, with the first test flight still not having commenced. The AW139 was first flown in 2001 but first customer orders arrived in 2004. Based on a similar timescale assuming the proto flies this year and everything runs smoothly you'd be looking at 2012 or so for them to arrive.

Regarding military applications - the manufacturers have produced a military brochure but with exclusively Irish pics as nobody else has bought it such a role. http://www.agustawestland.com/dindoc/AW139_military.pdf

Manic Moran

doesnt seem to have been a PR stunt, more some sort of a traditional honor done by the heli manufacturer.

Seems more like a sop to "let the Irish think they've done something important.. they're the only people daft enough to have bought this thing for battlefield use." Unlike other manufacturers (and even Lynx and Apache on their own product list), they're not using the name in any advertising at all. Even that military brochure they hid away.

NTM

cushtac

Manic Moran wrote: »

Seems more like a sop to "let the Irish think they've done something important.. they're the only people daft enough to have bought this thing for battlefield use." Unlike other manufacturers (and even Lynx and Apache on their own product list), they're not using the name in any advertising at all. Even that military brochure they hid away.

NTM

It wasn't bought for battlefield use though, was it?

vulcan57

QUOTE:
Questioned by reporters in Dublin this morning, he said 90% of the cost of running these helicopters was incurred whether he used them or not.

If this moron is telling the truth that if this AW139 was on the ground at Baldonnell for the day instead of carting him around the country, it would still be costing €7200 then it's high they were got rid of.

QUOTE:
He also said he managed to do about eight functions on Monday as a result of using the helicopter when, without it, he would only have been able to do one.

What utter rubbish! Its just bad planning he could have done the eight functions over 2 days and stayed in a hotel over night using public transport or his car for far less. If those functions were all one day and could'nt be changed, then he is just taking on to many at the expense of the tax payer.

Wonder how often the AW139'sare used as taxis? would interested to compare the wasted money their use is costing the country compared to cheaper forms of transport. I strongly suspect that it is far more widely used than they would like to admit to.

OS119

cushtac wrote: »

It wasn't bought for battlefield use though, was it?

please tell me you actually bought a helicopter to 'train people how to get in and out of a helicopter', coz i haven't laughed my tits off for a few days!

it certainly wasn't (openly) bought as a MATS/VIP helicopter, nor a ASW platform, its no ISTAR platform or attack helicopter, nor a SAR asset, nor a AWACS system: so given that its operated by the military for the miltary, there's a pretty limited number of other roles.

well, err... one actually....

diverdriver

Someone should do a little comparsion and find out what it would cost to hire a civilian helicopter for the same job. I'm willing to bet it's nowhere close to €8k. I'm absolutely certain that a fixed wing aircraft to a nearby airport and a taxi ride would be half as much again.

There is one difference though, hiring a civilian aircraft would have to justified and the excuse that 90% of the costs are incurred whether they're used or not wouldn't wash. His other excuse that he had to attend eight functions on Monday is utter BS. If we are talking two hours a function then it's a sixteen hour day. When does he sleep, on the chopper I suppose.

I have no problem with ministers flying on important business. This is the 21st century for crying out loud. But the emphasis should be on important business not a convenient taxi service.

The Air Corps MATS service should disbanded and the aircraft sold. It's cheaper to hire jets as needed and more importantly the costs would be very transparent and it would be more difficult to justify flights. As for the AW139s or Wolfhounds:pac: (Gawd, save us:mad:) It's pretty clear now why they were chosen ahead of a proper military helicopter like the Blackhawk. They're a lot more comfy for the VIPs, so called.

That is they were, until the door fell off which points to a problem with the door mechanism. You see the reason helicopters are built to a military spec is so they survive the day to day rough and ready use the military gives them. Civilian helicopters are not designed for that kind of use.

I doubt very much, we'll see the AW139s, in service as long as the Alouettes. They're pretty but we need ugly.

iceage

How much would it have cost to use a civvie chopper firm for the same hop?

Interesting to find out wouldn't it? Wasteful twit, he should be handed the bill, sure he wouldn't be paying it anyway would he WE WOULD! And the excuse that these helis incur 90% of the expense even with them on the ground...Speechless fcukin speechless. you sir, are a ***t sir, and an waste of space.

cushtac

From the tender document:

Four (4) new twin-engine, utility military helicopters (with an option for two (2) additional utility military helicopters) which will be operated by the Irish Air Corps in a general purpose military operational and training role. The helicopters should be available for delivery at the earliest possible date. Primary taskings for the utility helicopter include:-
a. Training and operations with Special Forces
b. Security and aid to the civil power
c. Reconnaissance team deployment and support
d. Military exercises and manoeuvres and pre-manoeuvre training
e. Infantry interoperability training
f. Casevac
g. Limited airlift, troop transport (up to eight equipped troops) and logistical support.

The helicopters will also be required to perform the following tasks:-

a. Air Ambulance
b. Aid to the civil community
c. VIP transport

cork1

diverdriver wrote: »

If we are talking two hours a function then it's a sixteen hour day. When does he sleep, on the chopper I suppose.

thats not possible either. ive been up in an air corp AW 139 and wearing ear protection the noise of the rotors is unreal. if the guy next to you shouts at you you hardly hear them not to mind trying to sleep in the thing!

Fishtits

Minister concerned stated that he'd attended eight events that day vs one event if he'd travelled by road...

So Mr Cullen, did your attendance at these functions have any real effect on the contracts signed other than publicity? anything signed on the day was worked out in blood sweat and tears between the various partners well in advance of your arrival, and would have happened in your absence. ie Your presence was unnecessary.

Sod you and your cost to our country IMHO.
Based on figures released today re the running cost of the AW139 we're looking at 3K per hour , conservative IM some what educated HO,

If you were Brian Cowen I might understand, but as a by stander, its sickening

Irish Tempest

As a innocent bystander a door coming off in flight is a v serious occurence. The RN lost one and it managed to get entangled with the tail rotor causing loss of life to the crew and the pax who won the seats (in a ships raffle) to disembark and fly into some dump in Africa. I think this is the real issue here not the use/misuse of an asset.