ROG and the Media.

daveyrovers

Having watched Setanta sports at the weekend I was expecting a fair analysis of the match that had taken place. Their panel of three consisted of Donal Lenihan (who sold ROG his mortagae) and Ciaran Fitzgerald. Both great players and honest men. However it is difficult to criticise someone so close to them. I thought they did a pretty good job when the question was posed about how ROG played.

"ROG had a bad day but he's had it before he'll get back on the horse and we'll see him play the way we know he can".

I think this is fair enough if I knew ROG personally and I was asked a question like this and answer something similar.

However the problem in Ireland is that no one in the media will say a bad word about ROG. He's like the property bubble or something, people are afraid of saying the emperor has no clothes.

Jim Glennon in the indo was the biggest joke

"Ronan O'Gara gave a masterclass in outhalf play"

What game was Jim Glennon watching. I can understand the likes of Corkery, Hook, Lenihan, Fitzy, and Conor O'Shea not been able to say a bad word about him. They all went to the same private school or played in Cork Con. But Glennon didn't neither did Francis. It appears only the foreign press will call it as it is with ROG I've spent a lot of time living in both NZ and Oz and he ain't rated there. I'm pretty sure the other home nations don't rate him really based on the fact that he's never got the outhalf slot on the lions.

Wreck

daveyrovers wrote: »

"ROG had a bad day but he's had it before he'll get back on the horse and we'll see him play the way we know he can".

That's pretty much exactly how I feel on the matter, and I didn't go to school with him, play for Cork Con. or sell him his mortgage.

Cuchulain

daveyrovers wrote: »

Jim Glennon in the indo was the biggest joke

"Ronan O'Gara gave a masterclass in outhalf play"

I seen this also and couldnt believe it. The only thing I could attribute to it was he wrote most of his synopsis before the game actually started :eek:

I think most people realise that with the exception of Humphreys, there is nobody in line to take over from ROG. We absolutely need to find a decent outhalf and give him much needed experience. Keatley and Humphreys jump to mind.......please dont mention Sexton.

boredatwork82

In my opinion, O'Leary carried ROG in the French game, and BOD carried him in the England game.
How long can Ireland carry ROG before he costs them a game.
In the Autumn he was dire against Argentina and the All Blacks.
If he can't tackle or kick what is he in the team for?

The Scotland game should see one of the younger outhalfs, starting, or on the bench and get 30 mins.

While I still believe ROG on form would be the best outhalf (and world class), he needs a boot up the hole, and lets see one of the young lads get a crack at it, start putting a bit of pressure on him, force him to up his game. (Preferably Keatley-but thats for another thread)

Diom

Apart from his place kicking he had good enough game, looking to take the ball on and his tactical game was alright.

Unfortunately we do need a kicker who will hit his shots. I agree that ROG will get back on the horse, he's done it before.

boredatwork82

If you want someone who can take the ball on and not kick, put in Leamy or David Wallace or Gordan Darcy. Although they would improve our defence, and the opposition 10 would be star-fished on the ground after ten minutes, between tackling & getting tackled by those guys.

Podge_irl

Its not limited to ROG and its the problem with using retired players as analysts - they too often know the people involved and therefore are reluctant to criticise them. Its frustrating and somewhat unprofessional - they're simply not doing their jobs if they don't point these things out. Its my main problem with the BBC coverage, the studio analysis tends to be awful as its mostly recently enough retired players and they constantly just bat for their own team.

Guys, can we please not drag this into a thread about ROG's performance on Saturday, cause its just gonna go the way of the other threads...

twinytwo

Wreck wrote: »

That's pretty much exactly how I feel on the matter, and I didn't go to school with him, play for Cork Con. or sell him his mortgage.

+1

Also why is it everytime he has a bad game or 2 people start yapping on about how limited/bad he is( there is no one on here who could do better) when on numerous occasions he has saved our lives (both for munster and Ireland). No here has any right to bad mouth, or even comment on any of the Irish players, as none of us have been in their shoes or have had to stand in frront of 80,000 people and kick at the goal.

After a game it is easy for people to go on about what they should/should not have done

Tristram

Wreck wrote: »

That's pretty much exactly how I feel on the matter, and I didn't go to school with him, play for Cork Con. or sell him his mortgage.

sames

Podge_irl

twinytwo wrote: »

No here has any right to bad mouth, or even comment on any of the Irish players, as none of us have been in their shoes or have had to stand in frront of 80,000 people and kick at the goal.

Right so, may as well close the forum down then.

I might suggest that those who have played at international level could do better then simply say that "Rog had an off day" and perhaps try and discuss the possible root causes of it because its become more prevalent.

PeakOutput

twinytwo wrote: »

No here has any right to bad mouth, or even comment on any of the Irish players

we do actually have every right to do it

twinytwo

PeakOutput wrote: »

we do actually have every right to do it

Unless you actually have played international rugby no you dont...

twinytwo

Podge_irl wrote: »

Right so, may as well close the forum down then.

I might suggest that those who have played at international level could do better then simply say that "Rog had an off day" and perhaps try and discuss the possible root causes of it because its become more prevalent.

But that what is was... when you kick at the posts its 50/50 you either get it or you dont.

Podge_irl

twinytwo wrote: »

Unless you actually have played international rugby no you dont...

Spectators ultimately pay the players wages and so are entitled to comment on the players. Even if they didn't, its absurd to suggest that you have to play international rugby to even make a comment on someone. While I appreciate that having done so will no doubt give you extra insight, those watching the game are hardly oblivious to everything that is going on.

Sparky14

twinytwo wrote: »

But that what is was... when you kick at the posts its 50/50 you either get it or you dont.

Hmm, not really.

Podge_irl

twinytwo wrote: »

But that what is was... when you kick at the posts its 50/50 you either get it or you dont.

Ah here, you can't actually believe that? Yes, you either get it or you don't but there are a myriad of factors behind whether or not you knock it over. ROG did not look happy all game, and hasn't been playing to his best all 6N. When ROG performed poorly last season it was symptomatic of EOS's stale reign according to a number of these same pundits. Now they make it sound like its just a once-off event beyond anyone's control. There are obviously reasons behind why players perform well or not, otherwise what would be the point of coaching?

I'd be more inclined to not worry about this if he had been playing well all season and if the rest of his game was up to scratch, but that's not the case. The English analysts are being exceptionally critical of the English team and perhaps that's a case of going too far. But the media here seem far too cosy with the current set-up imo.

twinytwo

Sparky14 wrote: »

Hmm, not really.

What other option do you have...??? you either score or you dont:rolleyes:

Sparky14

twinytwo wrote: »

What other option do you have...??? you either score or you dont:rolleyes:

Yes you either get it or you don't, but it is certainly not 50/50. You hardly think you have the same chance of getting a kick regardless of kicker, form and where kick is taken.

outwest

if rog does get the finger out he wont make the lions tour. the last thing u want is in africa is a out half who cant tackle, he had a bad day at the office on saturday so what. personly i think, " dont shoot me for this" wilkonson will start outhalf he gets fit a paly well forthe rest of season.

thomond2006

Oh ffs, not more rants about ROG, the firing squad has returned.....

outwest

all i said is i wud perfer wilkonson to rog. i still want him to tour. rog is way better then james"i try to catch a ball behind my back but drop it" hook

thomond2006

outwest wrote: »

wilkonson will start outhalf he gets fit a paly well forthe rest of season.

ARE YOU FOR REAL??

I'm sure he'll find his quantum physics more important. :D

outwest

why not he was playing before his injury. he is still a better palyer then any one actually playing today in the six nations

Podge_irl

It's not a thread about who is going to start for the Lions.

Fishtits

Right, hands up here who has never had a bad day at the office? none of you ever fallen on your face?

Loosen up guys, he's won more matches for his country than any other player. If you lot are so fickle as to cast him off the boat as soon as he has a bad day its a sad day for our team support.

Apart from his place kicking he had a decent match, so he's not the greatest tackler in the world, still, how many line breaks were made through the 10 channel? If he's prepared to be starfished for the team he gets my respect.

The players big time circled the wagons when it was raised at the after match press conferences, as supporters I'd expect us to do the same. :mad:

[Jackass]

Have you seen what bad press can do to RO'G??

Just look at the 2007 world cup and the attention that was put on him, he folded like a deck of cards on a wonkey table in the middle of a tropical storm.

He is a very sensitive and fragile bunny and the management do a massive amount to keep him out of the media and lime light off the pitch and the players do a massive amount to protect him on it.

And 99 times out of 100 he delivers the goods on what's expected of him. I've said a lot about shortcomings I think he has as a player, which are plentyfull in my opinion, but one thing I've never denied is that we're lost without him as there's no one else and to be fair to the guy, he had a bad game, it's not a big deal, just because he's "the kicking guy" it's a lot more obvious when he's not doing the things right that he should be, but lots of players have quiet / bad games and not a word is said about it. He's not Jesus, give him a break.

Sparky14

Anyone can have an off day, what I found a bit strange was that they didn't give Wallace or Kearney a go when it was clear just how bad a day O'Gara was having. Granted neither are really front line kickers but in fairness you wouldn't need to be an international standard kicker to get the ones O'Gara missed on Saturday.

Stev_o

Fishtits wrote: »

Right, hands up here who has never had a bad day at the office? none of you ever fallen on your face?

Loosen up guys, he's won more matches for his country than any other player. If you lot are so fickle as to cast him off the boat as soon as he has a bad day its a sad day for our team support.

Apart from his place kicking he had a decent match, so he's not the greatest tackler in the world, still, how many line breaks were made through the 10 channel? If he's prepared to be starfished for the team he gets my respect.

The players big time circled the wagons when it was raised at the after match press conferences, as supporters I'd expect us to do the same. :mad:

Its nothing to do with ONE bad day at the office, he's been poor for some time now and this match was the tip of the iceberg. He's only played a handful of great games this year and the majority of games he has played he's been mediocre. Against France he was poor, against Italy he had a dreadful start and only played well for 30 or so minutes. Against England it was just dire stuff.

He didn't bring the backline into the game at all, in fact most of attacking breaks came from countering kicks rather then spreading things wide.

No one is saying he should be lined up and shot but what we are saying that in any other of the major RU he would be dropped to the bench.

anonymous_joe

Sparky14 wrote: »

Anyone can have an off day, what I found a bit strange was that they didn't give Wallace or Kearney a go when it was clear just how bad a day O'Gara was having. Granted neither are really front line kickers but in fairness you wouldn't need to be an international standard kicker to get the ones O'Gara missed on Saturday.

I was going out with a girl for ages, and one thing I found about her was that when there was something she could normally do, if she was having a bad day, and couldn't do it, if you did it for her, she'd feel absolutely humiliated, and often end up crying at her own uselessness. (Gah, spelling of that one's bugging me.)

Anyway, you may wonder why I bring this up - well look at ROG, take it away from him and he might feel a weight's off his back and he'll relax, or he might feel humilated and become even worse and even more pressured.

Sparky14

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I was going out with a girl for ages, and one thing I found about her was that when there was something she could normally do, if she was having a bad day, and couldn't do it, if you did it for her, she'd feel absolutely humiliated, and often end up crying at her own uselessness. (Gah, spelling of that one's bugging me.)

Anyway, you may wonder why I bring this up - well look at ROG, take it away from him and he might feel a weight's off his back and he'll relax, or he might feel humilated and become even worse and even more pressured.

Can just imagine O'Gara in tears as Wallace slots over a penalty. I know we're all saying hes fragile but I think ROG is made from sterner stuff than that.

Understand your point tho about not wanting to undermine his confidence and I presume that was the reason.

Podge_irl

Sparky14 wrote: »

Understand your point tho about not wanting to undermine his confidence and I presume that was the reason.

One would imagine missing a lot would undermine his confidence too. I would like to think that if he thought he wasn't kicking well he would be the first to suggest someone else try.

Actually, out of curiosity, does anyone know O'Gara's kicking stats for the last two years at international level? Cause I get the impression that he's not as reliable as he once was but I'm not sure I'm right.

Sparky14

Podge_irl wrote: »

I would like to think that if he thought he wasn't kicking well he would be the first to suggest someone else try.

And yet I can't remember it ever happening.

anonymous_joe

Sparky14 wrote: »

Can just imagine O'Gara in tears as Wallace slots over a penalty. I know we're all saying hes fragile but I think ROG is made from sterner stuff than that.

Understand your point tho about not wanting to undermine his confidence and I presume that was the reason.

Haha, nice edit. :P

Nah I fully appreciate how that reads, that's why I posted the story - we don't know how he'd react. It might help some, and as I suggested, swing the other way for others. I'd surmise he's used to being the boss, if you follow, and would be a bit undermined by losing that.

Podge_irl wrote: »

One would imagine missing a lot would undermine his confidence too. I would like to think that if he thought he wasn't kicking well he would be the first to suggest someone else try.

Actually, out of curiosity, does anyone know O'Gara's kicking stats for the last two years at international level? Cause I get the impression that he's not as reliable as he once was but I'm not sure I'm right.

It might undermine you, but then having someone else given your role could be even more undermining.

Shelflife

I think O Gara is a fine out half but the pure and simple fact is that he hasnt played well for some time now.

how many good games has he played since aug 07 ?

its a reflection on the fact that he has no competition for his position and has stagnated.

the thing that is annoying people is that he is not playing near the level to which we know he can.

unfortunatly we are in the situation where we dont have any options at 10 and ROG is suffering as there is no one to push him.

for the record im not saying that he doesnt try his hardest but the fear of losing your place sharpens the mind.

daveyrovers

Yeah I'd fully agree with Shelflife. ROG was playing better when there was someone within an arses roar of him. Warwick is a better option than anything Ireland can offer at the moment so he'd be more likely to lose his place in Munster than Ireland at the moment.

velocirafter

ROG's penalty success was 81.82% in 2008 and 82.76 in 2007, these are only for 6 nations